Cruel-Merc

okay folks, i have a weird problem happening here.I hear a clunk noise when the car is idle and i turn the wheel to the right side , it happened a month ago when i heard it , all i did was i lowered the rear even more and the noise was gone but now its back .

PS: i have changed every single bush needed in the front suspension.Maybe if i go more low at rear , itll fix the issue again lol .

neurodave

May be wrong here, but might be a control arm. Mine did the same early on when I had it, once I replaced the control arms, it went away.

Cruel-Merc

You are right, i just check mine today and the whole needs to be replaced.Thanks man.

slammer111

So it looks like I have a failed front L lower arm ball joint (155k km). Would you guys recommend a) replacing just that arm, b) replacing both front lower arms, c) replacing all 4 arms in the front, or d) something not listed here? All 4 bushings are cracked, but as we all know, MB sells these bushings separately. Both tie rods were replaced at 100k.

Also, has anyone tried using an odd number of fluted bolts? Doing a quick calculation based on my current camber/caster settings, it looks like I may only need 3 sets instead of 4 to bring the car within spec. Wondering if this is a good idea.

Thanks in advance.

Allrevup

Unless is due to a accidental mishaps when new or near new, this are parts that should be changed in pairs for both sides. I only change the bushings in both lower and upper control arms, it was not that difficult or time consuming (+/_ 1 Hr.) using the bushing removal tool with the control arm still on the car. Now, the outer tie-rod ends was a PITA to separate. I don't understand why you would only need 3 out of four flouted bolts, even if one connection is or will be with in specs after an alignment, I would think is better to have all 4.


I installed the 4 fluted bolts and to this day and four alignments in the last 13.5K. miles, 2 at the MB dealers my car still pulls to the right. I can not get this "A__ H___S" to follow what Mr. Ruke's posted MB bulletins say. They have given me at least 4 sets of run of the mill excuses, to do but the minimum with different with-in factory tolerances final specs and the same slight pull to the right results.

slammer111

^ This is exactly why I'm wondering about using 3 fluted bolts instead of 4. That's the only way I know of for increasing the caster on the passenger side but not the driver's side, to get rid of that pull to the R. Also, for some reason, if I use 2 fluted bolts on the front R wheel, the camber goes out of spec. Remember, my car is lowered, so the current wheel values are all going to be slightly wonky.

Anyone know how long the ball joints are supposed to last? This is why I'm considering replacing the entire arms and not just the bushings. As mentioned above, one of my tie rod ball ball joints failed at 100k km, and now one of the control arm ball joints failed at 155k. Wondering if the 3 remaining original ones are also about to go. Car suspension has not been damaged in accidents.

jkowtko

100k mi is long enough for these ball joint to last ... I suggest replacing the entire control arm as these are integral components of a very beefy suspension and you will have to replace them only once every several years.

Regarding the fluted bolts, buy all four. You can still set them in the center position, but it's good to have the ability to make adjustments whenever needed.

Regarding pulling to the right, that continued off and on in my car until I replaced the steering rack bushings. The worn bushings were allowing the rack to move a bit left-to-right, so when I drove on a crowned road the steering would "lean" from the crown and as a result the car would pull. Check out the other threads on this forum regarding steering rack bushings ... I suggest you replace them as it is fairly easy to do.

K-Mac

“4 Sets of excuses” – simple fact is FULL/PRECISE FRONT AND REAR WHEEL ALIGNMENT IS NO MORE!!


Since the mid ’90 model’s, with the ever increasing speed of assembly lines there has been no front or rear Camber (or front caster) adjustment facility fitted OEM.


We saw the need therefore “to fix it right the first time” by designing, developing, patenting (and re-instating from the 1990’s) fully adjustable front (and rear) suspension for virtually all models.



The current K-MAC kits have up to 4 times the adjustment of the one only position offset bolts (both positive or negative). And unlike these one only position bolts that require labour intensive jacking and disassembly each time to alter, K-MAC kits only require use of a single wrench to adjust on car (under load) direct on alignment rack.


Providing “ongoing” full, precise adjustment of both Camber and Caster settings to resolve costly premature inner edge tire wear, improve traction and resolve steering pull.


Essential to return vehicle to factory specs after curb knock damage, altering height, load carrying or fitting wider profile tires/wheels.


With the front Caster adjustable “2 axis” bushes also allowing improved hi-speed directional control, better traction/braking and steering response. Along with reduced dive/lift on brake and acceleration.



The rear Camber adjustable bushes also include extra Toe adjustment to compensate for the new Camber facility.

Allrevup

The hassle and alignments cost are adding up!
I have conceder the K-mac's well regarded solution. However my main issue at this point, is that the alignment tech's are not following the correct fluted bolts installation alignment procedure.

jkowtko

That's because it's a non-trivial procedure. Most alignments involve loosening a bolt and turning it, or inserting/removing shims. In the case of the W203/W204 chassis, you have to remove the bolts, and for the uppers you also have to remove the sway bar brackets in order to remove the bolts. You're in a sense disassembling part of the suspension in order to do the alignment.

I wouldn't expect the traditional alignment shop to touch caster/camber on our cars. Nor would I trust them to tighten it up correctly either. (you must tighten the bushing bolts with the suspension resting at normal height, otherwise you will ruin the bushings.)

Allrevup

I know that, I install all the parts. Is not dark Science or Art, The alignment can be tedious but is just a mechanical procedure that involves a alignment machine... just nuts and bolts.

jkowtko

... and you have to lift the car off the front wheels ... do alignment machines do that nowadays?

Allrevup

Thank You, That goes with out say, for this or most cars. They were told to correct the steering problem. I anticipated having to pay for additional labor... check tire pressure, ad 75 Kilos on the driver seat, removal of the sway bar clamps to gain access to 2 of the control arms bolts, removal and adjustment to the other 2 control arm bolts, torque everything with the car bearing its weight (as I did) and reseating the car on the alignment machines as needed. The problem is that Mercedes as well as the indy appear to simply adjust the toe with out regard for the caster and camber adjustment.

K-Mac

“....ALIGNMENT TECHS ARE NOT FOLLOWING THE CORRECT FLUTED BOLTS INSTALLATION ALIGNMENT PROCEDURE”.


Go easy on them!!


It’s no wonder - when after all they only have a one offset position bolt to work with. No precise adjustment and then only a minimal 1/8 of an inch change can be achieved.


Simply no comparison to the K-MAC front Camber and Caster accurate/precise adjustment system – which also offers up to 4 times the adjustment range.


With no labour intensive disassembly required to change settings.


The unique patented design allows ongoing adjustment on car to easily return to factory settings by use of a “single wrench” to precisely adjust (accurately under load direct on alignment rack) to achieve (the first time) precise settings.


A similar system also manufactured for the rear – Camber with extra Toe adjustment.


Finally (and only with K-MAC) the statement “Full Front or Rear Alignment” is once more!!

Ben Longden

The rear in my W140 has been getting worse and worse... Now its a constant creaking.. really noticeable getting in and out of her.

We had her on the hoist recently and the stethoscope showed the creak was coming from the lower suspension arm, where the spring is inserted.. (highlighted in red) So, during servicing today the springs were compressed to check the rubbers... and they were fine.
Shock absorbers were dry and dusty.

Any ideas?

Ben

guntherx2000

Had the same problem this year. It was hard to identify where the noise was coming from unless you have the vehicle raised and the rear wheels loaded while rocking the vehicle. It is most likely the outer rear wheel carrier bushing (part 20) in the diagram. Parts are readily available online and it can be replaced yourself. I was going to do the inners as well and press new ones in, but even in a press I couldn't get them to move and didn't have the time to burn them out. If you do that I would recommend buying the complete arm.
The spring does not need a compressor. If you have a jack under the arm while you are unhooking the shock and removing bolt 90 you can then just let the arm swing down and remove the spring. I used a busing installer for another application and with some maneuvering with various size sockets push it out and re install. Remember to load the wheels before tightening the bushings in place. While you are under there you may want to replace the stabilizer bushings as well.

ramslad

Hi folks,
Need some advice as my 2005 C230 Sport is starting to drive me a little crazy....When I drive over imperfections or bumps in the road the car will wobble pretty badly. The car almost shudders from side to side. It does this at all speeds and can be quite unnerving at times. I've had the suspension checked, alignment checked, and tires balanced...nothing seems to fix the problem. The mechanics I've spoken to just tell me it's how the C Class rides but I cannot imagine for the life of me that this is how the vehicle should behave. Any advice greatly appreciated!!
Chris

jkowtko

Sedan or coupe?

Sorry, this is not "just how the C class rides". These cars have great suspensions. I have the sedan, and it's pretty tight. I put Bilstein TCs on it and that also really tightened up the rear end. But I've never had sideways wobbling.

What brand/model tires do you have? It seems like an overwhelming number of "suspension issues" are really due to bad or worn tires.

When you push down on the rear of the car (either fender), does it go down much? Mine does not -- it's pretty stiff.

Does the problem affect the steering? Jerk the wheel one way or another?

have you had someone watch the car from outsdie while you drove over a sharp bump in the road, to make sure the tire isn't bouncing abnormally over the bump? (bad shocks).

ramslad

It's a sedan. I have Michelin Primacy's all round. When I push down the rear of the car it's pretty stiff..doesn't seem abnormal. The steering is not affected at all which makes me think it could be an issue in the rear?? Shocks seem ok...90K miles on the vehicle.

jkowtko

I replaced my shocks at ~95k ... but I would say they were bad by 70-80k. You might still want to hvae someone watch thecar as it drives by over a sharp bump.

Fyi, my son's 96 Accord has a "buck-o-bolts" rattling problem in the rear when I go over sharp bumps. I've completely removed the interior lining and have the rear seat folded down so I have clear view of the trunk. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get someone to drive the car over enough bumps while I'm lying back there, to isolate the problem. I'm thinking that the rear shocks are bad. I ordered a new budget set of shocks that I'm going to swap out and see if that's the problem.

i wish I had a better answer for you, but I am struggling with the same issue myself on the Honda. Fyi here's my Honda video:


Any chance you can post a similar video of your car?

Thanks. John

Julien-France

Hi guys!
This is a looong topic, but realy helpfull, thanks to you all.

My 2002 coupe (I just adopted it in poor condition) has now all new arms, sway bushings and sway links on the front : that's wonderfull!
Now I'm willing to work on the rear: my coupe makes squeeky sounds on any move. When I get into a curve, on any bump... sounds like and old ****!
Sway bushings?

After reading this topic I have questions:
- what do you lub the bushings with? (I did not put anything on the front ones, should I?)
- what special tool d'you need for rear sway links replace?

Many thanks

Cruel-Merc

Hey folks, how to spot a bad upper front strut mount on a c230 sedan kompressor?!i have a sound coming from the driver side when turning left, can see the mount left and right but sure the sound is coming from that thing, im confused if its a bad strut mount or a spring.

jkowtko

You should lube rubber parts with silicone grease. It's not petroleum based like regular axle grease so it won't deteriorate the rubber. You can find it at your local hardware store in the kitchen faucet aisle ... it looks like vaseline, clear/white in color, but with a stronger smell.

Sorry, I don't know what bolts are holding on the rear sway bar bushings. In the front it's torx bolts, for which you can use a 12 point regular socket, or purchase some inverted torx sockets relatively cheaply on eBay. If you plan on working on your car regularly, a torx socket set is a must

jkowtko

What kind of sound? the creaking of rubber? sandy grit sound? If you jack up the front of the car and have the engine turned off, do you still hear it? Can you send us an audio or video clip of the sound?

You can check the strut top mount rubber for cracks simply by lifting up the front of the car so the suspension hangs. then peek under that crossbar that sits on top of the strut post in the engine compartment. If you can see any cracks in the rubber below, then the mounts are on their way out.

There is also a bearing in there, a flat donut-shaped slider bearing around 4" in diameter, that sits in between the two pieces of that top mount.

The top of the bearing is under the rubber "hat" that you see when you peek in from the engine bay.

The bearing then sits on top of the "brim" of the hat, that sits on the top of the spring.

When you turn the wheel, the entire wheel/knucle/spring/brim assembly turns, while the "hat" stays stationary, except for some pitch and roll orientation change due to the geometry of the overall linkage.

If you are hearing a noise in there, either it's the "hat" rubbing against the inner body well where it pushes up to hold up the car, or the bearing is going bad and is grinding when it turns.

Less likely but also a possibility, is the rubber flange around the "brim" that closes up the wheel well hole at the top to protect against dirt and debris, and that rubber could be rubbing noisily against the metal.

And also an unlikely possibility is the control arm ball joints that are attached to the steering knuckle, or something in the steering linkage or rack.

If you can clearly hear the noise when you do all this, but still can't pinpoint where it's coming from, do either the touch test (feel with your fingers for vibrations) or buy a mechanics stethescope for under $10 to figure out where it's loudest.

Good luck, and let us know what you find out!

-- John

Cruel-Merc

Yes , i saw some cracks but not that serious , i was told to check the bearing aswell but that i have to take out the whole strut.I have replaced both control arms a month ago .Everything seems to be normal when turning left while cars jacked , the noise comes when the car is sitting on the ground and you turn the wheel to the left , you could hear a grinding sound and its like something metal snapping from its place then going back and there is a sound just like when something hits under the car when on freeway, i looked at the mount and turned the wheel , it acted weird like something is keepin it from rotating so it just rotate to the left then snaps i dont know its just too noisy and the car doesnt seem to run normal,the passenger side is running normal. i will take a video tomorrow and post it here.