HealeyDoc

2004 C230k (145,000 miles) with an intermittent EIS issue over the past 7 months.

Symptoms have been: Key fob intermittently "handshakes" with EIS (I can hear a motorized sound when it does). If it does, the fob turns. If it doesn't, the fob does not turn. When the fob turns to position 1 all gauges, etc.. turn on then drop out. When the fob turns to position 2, intermittently the car starts. Independent of whether the gauges drop out or not.

Took the car into an independent MB shop 2 weeks ago. Based on their recommendation, I agreed to have them replace the EIS. Waited for them to receive ordered switch. Today received a call and new EIS is in, but car is still behaving the same. Tech acknowledges the new EIS did not solve the problem. Says they are getting codes for Front SAM and Rear SAM and a bunch of others. Asked if I wanted him to continue diagnosing and that they were already at a total of $1200.00. I mentioned they should put my old EIS back in since it wasn't the problem and that we are now starting at $0. He said he would "work with me" and would adjust the billing, if I decided to keep the new EIS. Says he can't ship the EIS back to MB since it is programmed to my key fob and VIN.

Told him to leave it in and to continue diagnosing.

Any ideas? Thoughts? What else could it be if not the EIS?

Jeff

tommy

Well, he's already given you possible culprits (probably both, from the sound of it - SAMs). If he's not charging you any additional cabbage, might as well let him get a laundry list together of everything.

I'm sure he's right that the EIS could not be returned, and most likely at best, the best option probably is to work with him on pricing going forward. Otherwise, a lawyer would probably have to get involved, which is only going to cost you more time and money. Look on the bright side - at least you know your EIS won't go out on you for years to come.

If it were a dealership, you'd probably have much more wiggle room, but your prices would be higher, so it's a half full/half empty kind of thing.

HealeyDoc

Thanks Tommy. He has agreed to hold firm on the EIS price $1200.00 (parts, labor, taxes included) and not charge me for the next 4 hours of diagnostic attempting to locate the issue. It appears that he would have to order in the F & R SAMS and I really don't want to pay for both of those either if it is only 1 of them that is the problem. Gotta love this "Trial and Error/Process of elimination" technique.

Jeff

LILBENZ230

Did you ask them to check the electronic steering lock (ESL)? If not, have them look into that.

edgarinho10

Since when can an Indie shop have MB send them an EIS? I have never heard of this....

C230 Sport Coup

Yeah, I don't think they can order them anymore.
My guy used to be able to, I'll have to check and see if he still can.

SunnyRayToronto

Possible to get used EIS on ebay and switch out chip holding VIN & SCN coding,... that's probably what the indy really did. Anyways, a real Mercedes-Indy should have STAR DAS - Instead of this expensive trial & error,... what are the error codes?

edgarinho10

Well based on what the OP posted, it seems that that may be the case. Why else would the indie be willing to work on the price? I may be thinking the worst of the shop, but it is possible.

HealeyDoc

Hi Guys,

Here's an update. I am going on 4 weeks now (this Thursday) that the shop has had my car. The info I've received is as follows:

Ordered an EIS from MB in Texas (?)
Said they programmed it when it arrived.
Checked Voltage levels of Battery at Rest, during start and while running. All voltages looked fine.
Said they would need to check the codes they were getting for Front and Rear SAM.
Said they needed to order a "Breakout Box" (?) in order to read codes in CAN, etc. Said they had to order it. Sounds like a diagnostic device to me.
Said they "worked" (?) on codes again with EIS and since then the car starts every time.
Said the SRS indicator is still on and asked if that was something I had seen before. I said yes. It occurred when i had the battery replaced a few months ago and was hoping he could reset it, since he was going to be working on the EIS. Said each time he has tried, it comes back on again. He said when he hooks the car to "Auto Logic", he clears the code and it comes back.
I asked if he has the STAR system and he said no. He said Auto Logic is what they use because it has diagnostic features for MB, BMW and Audi "all in one".

This is the extent of my experience. Some or all of this seems sketchy to me.

Jeff

tommy

I'd agree, Jeff. I wouldn't trust anyone who doesn't have STAR.

Might be time to wrap up your experience with him, pay as little as possible, and move on to a MB specific indy with full STAR and the ability to get to the root of your SRS problem (and others too).

HealeyDoc

Agreed. I am wondering about this shop as well.

The EIS they purchased was not already programmed. They bought a switch and then programmed it at their shop. I may have typed something that created that confusion. Sorry if I did. But, how else does a shop replace an EIS if they can't buy one and program it? Wouldn't they buy it from an MB dealership, online parts haus, etc.. I can ask to have them show me the receipt from where they purchased it?

So I just got off the phone with the shop. Last I spoke with them was on Tuesday of this week, they did "some reprogramming of the EIS" and they've not had any problem with the car starting, but they wanted to run it through a car wash (get things wet), let it sit out in the cold overnight (get things cold) and see if anything would change. So this morning I called and they said the car still starts up just fine, each and every time. They've not mentioned anything else about the SAM codes or other codes they were getting, or what the "breakout box" (adapter?) allowed them to see. Maybe it helped them eliminate some items. I'll have to ask.

So the front desk gal is going to have the technician call me in an hour and a half because he is under a car. I've yet to find out if the SRS light issue is resolved, etc..

I have a nagging thought in the back of my mind that they have stumbled across something, wiggled something, farted around with the coding again, etc... or that the car is now for whatever reason not demonstrating the intermittent failure to start any longer and they are hesitant to say the issue is fixed, yet if I believe it is, that they are then going to exclaim "it is fixed" and now charge me for all of the diagnostic time they spent "practicing" on my car.

How do I walk away with the thought that they really didn't fix my car, pay the man and that in a couple of weeks the same issue isn't going to arise and taking it back to them for any warranty on their work is going to rectify the problem? I feel like several questions need to be answered for sure. I'm not keen on paying them for all of their "learning" either. Or shall I just assume it's all working and that they must have fixed it? How do I get around that? I will update in an hour or so once I've spoken with the Tech.

Jeff

tommy

Generally, you don't. You're the only person I've seen here who hasn't gone to the dealer for it (I did). I really wouldn't trust this kind of work to an indy.

Not saying you did anything particularly wrong, but that's why people here are having questions about what you had done.

HealeyDoc

OK, I see. I can understand then, where those concerns were coming from now. So I went to an indy because many people also suggested it as a less expensive option, provided the indy had the system to re-program. I've heard an equal amount of "only STAR" can do it and "Auto Logic" can do it too on the other MB Forums. Certainly it would have been cheaper (and still could be, depending on the final outcome) if the indy option works out. Right now that is really where the rubber meets the road if it is determined they've fixed the issue. I am expecting them to charge for all the "Trial and error/guessing/fixing their initial mistakes" diagnostic time spent and I'll need to get into it with them on that issue. I'll make sure to give an update here in about an hour.

Jeff

HealeyDoc

So you don't think an indie shop can buy an EIS from an MB Dealer's Parts Department or even an online parts store and programme it once received?

Jeff

samaritrey

From my understanding in the beginning they could but then Mercedes said it was a security part and wouldn't sell it to anyone. Sort of like the key where you can only get it from a dealer after proving you are the owner with 10 different forums of identification lol
Now maybe they have relaxed about it but you could call your local dealer and ask if you can by an EIS.

SunnyRayToronto

Heck, if Mercedes-Benz is now selling EIS and keys to anyone,.... there's a sweet SLS AMG down the street,.... I'll just grab the VIN code,... and it's mine!!!!

OP, this is exactly why I hate dealing with newbies ,.... if you're going to constantly second guess the replies of seasoned forum members with deep expertise,.... why are you even here asking for our opinions? Just look at the number of posts and join dates of the posters that have responded here,.... I think they'd know a thing or two about these cars!

OP, the easiest thing for you to do now, is ask your so called indy to produce the receipt from Mercedes-Benz for the new EIS they said they brought and installed. It should also have the VIN code on it as my receipt from my local Mercedes-Benz dealership for the new ECU that I purchased (why would you need the receipt - for warrenty issues!). These items are VIN-coded and then SCN coded once installed. I'm willing to put some money down that they NEVER got you a new EIS,.... at best, like I said earlier,... they got you a used EIS from ebay or junkyard and switched EPROM chip that stores your VIN-code and SCN code. At worst, you EIS never had a real problem,... just a loose or corroded connector, fuse or relay or something minor like that,....

Oh, BTW,... EIS are VIN-coded from Mercedes-Benz,.... but SCN coding can only be done when installed in car,... which allows EIS to communicate with other computers in car (ECU, TCU, etc,....). To do SCN coding, they need "switch" - actually more than just STAR,.... they need a direct connection to the mother ship! The Mercedes-Benz security computer in Germany,.... outside of Mercedes-Benz dealerships,... only a handful of specialized electrical Mercedes-Indy have such access. Even my Mercedes-Indy (the best Mercedes-Indy in Toronto) had to connect to another specialized Mercedes-Indy in California to get such access when I needed SCN coding for my new ECU. But hey,... if you think this can be done with a magic "switch" that nobody here as ever heard about,... ok, whatever!

deanrantala

I know this is an old thread, but I see a LOT of incorrect information being blasted on this thread.

Yes, Mercedes-Benz will sell you an EIS, Key, etc. Some dealerships are idiots and will refuse to sell them stating "you must have us install and program it", some do not. For example: MB in Nashville will NOT, while MB in Knoxville WILL.

To purchase an EIS, new key or ANYTHING that is covered under TRP (Theft-relevant-parts policy - google search around if you do not know what I am talking about), you must provide proof of ownership of said vehicle. Typically, the owners registration and a copy of his or her driver license is sufficient. After that, you sign the TRP form and they have the part[s] sent.

Next, you DO have to perform SCN coding.

A Mercedes STAR diagnosis is NOT the only tool that can perform SCN coding. I own an Autologic and it is capable of flashing all modules AND performing full SCN coding. It costs around $1,400 a year for the subscription. I also own a china clone STAR, and I use it often, but the Autologic is much cheaper than a fully licensed STAR. The Autologic is TRUE OEM GRADE diagnostics: if MB releases new software for the ECM tomorrow morning, I will have access to it tomorrow afternoon.

My Autologic was $28,000 just for the ability to work with BMW, Mercedes and VW/Audi. This is not some cheap SnapOn universal diagnostic hardware. My subscription for all 3 lines runs another $3600 a year.

So...

YES, Indie shops CAN purchase a NEW EIS under the TRP program (call MB Knoxville)
YES, Indie shops CAN flash AND SCN code the module
YES, Indie shops CAN even do this without MB STAR


The OP mentioned the Indy Shop had an AutoLogic. So accusing the indy shop in question of buying a used part due to the inability to program and scn code a module is ignorant. If that shop has a genuine Autologic and a current subscription for the MB line, they could have EASILY flashed and coded the module.

Also, accusing the Indy shop of NOT being able to purchase an EIS is also ignorant. Attached to this post is the Mercedes documentation outlining Theft-relevant parts AND the order form needed to purchase them. Read them and understand them. I am saving the entire forum having to google search for it. Then call a MB dealership worth dealing with (Knoxville TN is a good one) and order the part as outlined in the provided documentation.

And for those wondering, BMW and VW/Audi has a similar program for ordering such parts. But that belongs in another forum.

- Dean

Russell Ormerod

Exactly! Dean you the only guy that makes sense! I wonder if they ever truly fixed the issue. Sounded like a simple key replacement would of fixed his issue

deanrantala

Oh, I almost forgot to mention Blue Link Diagnostics. You buy their cable and kit (just under $900) and are ready to perform SCN coding for $125 a pop. They also have an excellent technical support line that alone is worth the product.

They foot the big bill of the genuine SDS and yearly subscription, then provide a proxy service. Simply and works really well. Currently, the number of modules they can SCN code is limited to trans, engine, emissions related stuff.

Once the Right To Repair act comes into full play (2018), they claim to also be able to offer SCN of all modules.