Driver5

Hello,

Currently looking at changing the BMW E60 and the C350e Estate Premium on paper seems to tick all the boxes with hp, spec and emissions etc (playing the CO2 game) - UK

From what I have read, the Premium with the 18 inch rims produces 52/3 Co2.

I would need a towbar for my bike rack and from reading the PDF (car config on Merc site seems to be down at moment) suggests if a towbar is required you need to upgrade to 18 inch rims, which then means the logical option is to go for the premium pack which includes the wheels plus the pano roof and a few other bits.

Questions, has anyone got one on order or at least driven yet? any feedback ? (searched the forum but not found much info as yet) - Requested an extended demo but not heard from Merc as yet.

Any thoughts on realistic MPG on Petrol only ?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Thanks

ManiacGT

Mpg will be entirely subject to how you drive, the routes you drive and for how long.

Stop start traffic with short trips will result in very poor mpg. Long trips will result in good mpg.

Petrol only will be 2x-4xmpg.

Driver5

Thanks, i understand MPG is very hard to compare driver for driver and conditions, but theoretically speaking finger in the air type of question, 70MPH, 2 up, motorway, open traffic for say 100 miles, calm winds... depleted battery, would we be looking at high 20's, 30's or 40's? just trying to build a picture really.

Most of my mileage/commute would be making as much use as possible from the EV element of the car.

Many Thanks

Member

Hi Rick,

i orded the 350e in The Netherlands. It is planned to be delivered next month. Tomorrow i will be driving the first demo!

Ofcourse the MPG are not that what they promise. But i'm sure it will be a lot better then any other car with 280hp.
Main reason ofcourse is the tax advantages in the Netherlands.

You are right that the MPG on registration tips over the 50g with 18" and a towbar. In the Netherlands this would result in a double tax gain.
Solution: order it with 17" and no towbar and let them install at your dealership. So your registration is still under 50gr.
Only disadvantage: you can't tow anything because the registrationform says towweight: 0lbs (in NL ofcourse KG).
But a bike rack is admitted ofcourse.

I hope this helps, and excuse my english.

Gr. Yuri

Driver5

Hi Yuri, thanks for your reply and I look forward to hearing your feedback post test drive.

In regards to the towbar, i also have access to a caravan too which we use one or 2 times a year with the kids, so i really need the option of towing.

I have also called the dealer who advised they would not fit a towbar on this model. (Sport Estate on 17 inch wheels) I have also looked at aftermarket options and there are non available at the moment from what i can see... but as its a company lease car i need to be careful i dont void any warranty, insurance etc.

My other option if playing the "tax" game is to go for a saloon version with the 17's and get the 48/9 CO2.

My concern is boot space and load access on the saloon, plus having had a BMW E60 saloon for 5 years 60k miles I am wanting a bit more rear space - (ie son, 5yr bike in the boot with ease.)

Tricky choice... im just waiting for the cost compares for the BIK (tax) on the 53c02 emmissions.

Thanks

W124-FTW

This isn't the case with a hybrid (mild or PHEV) which actually excels in urban driving and also in country roads. The reason is that the battery will get charged with the braking and then used to assist acceleration. The constant stopping and starting between stops in traffic is what makes normal combustion engines give crap economy.

If you're just driving long motorways all the time, then you'll get relatively little use out of the hybrid system. In that case would expect the same economy as a C200 petrol (might be slightly less as the engine is tuned for an additional 20bhp).

If you do a fixed daily commute of around 20-30 miles then you'll benefit a lot from a PHEV. Especially if you can charge your car at your work place. Also, if you do mixed journeys that you'll benefit from the hybrid system.

So a PHEV like the C350e all depends on the journeys you'll make. It will just revert to a mild hybrid with assistance from the combustion when the battery is depleted. You can also use the different hybrid modes if you know your journey ahead.

This article mentions the modes you can select:
On top of this, there are four operating modes: Hybrid, E-mode, E-save and Charge. Each mode varies the energy recuperation, coasting and gearbox characteristics, with E-mode allowing the C350 Plug-in Hybrid to run in electric mode for a claimed distance of up to 19.3 miles on a fully charged battery.

It might seem a bit bewildering at first, but as you use the car more, you'll get to know which one suits the drive. If you're not sure, just leave it in hybrid.

This is also a useful video to describe the different modes (it's for a Mitsubish PHEV) but it's the same tech:

I would try and get on loan for a few days and see what you can really get MPG-wise. For a company car driver, it's not all about MPG though as there are significant BIK savings. For non-company car drivers, I doubt ROI in fuel saving will justify the higher cost.

Note that cold weather will noticeably impact the MPG on a hybrid. Two reasons: cold temperatures aren't good for batteries and also, any heat you draw will force the combustion engine to continually run. I used to get 5-10 MPG higher in summer than cold winter days (everything else equal). Drove a mild hybrid driver for 6 years (Toyota Prius).

W124-FTW

You can look up the BIK on http://comcar.co.uk/
It also allows you to specify options too. I see that adding the Premium or PremiumPlus on the estate will tip it north of 50g CO2 and into the 9% territory.

As you probably know, you want to keep it under 50g CO2 to really benefit from it being a company car. Not sure how long your leases are but have a look over the next 3 years for TCO as the bands are going up considerably.
http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/fleet-faq...-bik-bands-/3/

9% in 2015/16 becomes 11% next year and then 13% the following year.

Basically the rate the UK government is increasing the BIK CO2 bands is quicker than the motor industry is reducing the CO2. It was primarily this reason I left my employer's company car scheme and took the cash instead.

Unless you're a very high mileage driver, then the days of company cars are limited IMHO.

PeterMc

I have the same issue in the UK. I want a C350e estate. When I ordered they said I need 18" wheels which takes CO2 over 50 and effectively doubles the tax. So I'm checking via a retrofit exaust company who said the OE towbar is a Bosal. THey are now calling Bosal for me to ask if they can fit a towbar to the estate with 17" wheels. Otherwise it's a saloon with a roof box for me!

Update. Bosal have no information. I have emailed Mercedes directly.

W124-FTW

This thread about W205 towbars over on MBClub might be of use.

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/new-m...5-towbars.html

PeterMc

Thanks

Driver5

Thanks all - Still waiting back from the lease company for the demo.


Cheers

Rick

Member

Test drove the 350e today.
Great car, great engine!

The thing i loved the most is how well the combustion engine and the electric motor work together. You never notice any switch in driving-mode, just the rpm meter going up.
The petrol engine is quiet and smooth. Big plus: it's really fast below 60mph.
I drove it for a hour, but i can imagine that even de MPG on the highway is a big improvement: its constantly switching the engine off when possible, and charging. Without even noticing in the comfort.

The rest of the car was a normal C-class. But it was the first time in one. Really liked the airmatic and the distronic plus with stearing assist.

Happy with the smoothness of the engine(s), was expecting some roughness with switching/break-charging.

Now it's really crossing off the days till delivery! Prob. 5 weeks...

Driver5

Great stuff, glad you liked it, was it the saloon or the Estate you demoed and ordered ?

Whats the boot/trunk size like with the lip in the boot floor ?

Cheers

Member

It was the estate, like we ordered.
The bootsize was very acceptable. The boot floor was just a little bit higher then a normal estate. Just no room underneath.

Not a horror as this:




Ford C-Max hybrid

Should have taken pics. This thursday we are getting the C350e for a longer drive., maybe ill remember to take pics.

ManiacGT

Did you check the 'mpg since start' at all on your test drive?

Member

I did not. I was either testing electric mode, or trying the torque.
Next week will be a better time to test the average mpg.

Driver5

Look forward to the photos -

Having spent some time doing man maths this weekend, im thinking a C350e Saloon is going to work best for me ££ wise, this is due to the 18inch wheels on the estate which increases the BIK, more so for BIK 2018/19 and 2019/20 depending on UK delivery lead times on a £40k+ car.





Therefore my focus at the moment is going to be boot/trunk space on a saloon...

Shame the Estate cant come with 17's with the premium pack.

Also, the premium pack on the estate comes with 18's, but on the saloon the pdf would suggest 17's, (I think the main factor is the pano roof on the saloon for this.)

PeterMc

Rick, I'm going for c350e saloon with Premium plus and tow bar. Wanted estate with tow bar but that give 18s and high tax. I have found the solution to the small boot, a tow bar mounted rear box from Thule, looks great for the odd occasion when you need to carry more. I hope that the co2 remains under 50 with the Premium plus and tow bar!
Member, looking forwards to your photos too.

Driver5

Good thinking with the towbar box. - I have done my quote now and just needs submitting..

Going for a Polar White c350e Saloon with Premium, with black on black and a tow bar!

Had you noted - "When ordered with Premium package (code DP0) or
Premium Plus package (code DP1) hands-free access (code 871)is removed."

So, is that just the auto open boot which is removed from the pack ?


KEYLESS-GO Comfort package
Including hands-free access, automatic powered boot closing, keyless entry and keyless start. Includes chrome trim on top half of door handles

PeterMc

Keyless: I wasn't sure what that was either. It looked like no keyless entry at all to me, I'm just going with it anyway. Also going for Polar white, black / black.
My main concern now is that I remain under the 50 CO2.

Driver5

Talking about Co2, from the information I have read and spoke to Merc Customer Services, they advised that with the 17 inch wheels the CO2 is 48 co2 regardless of spec and fixed. - but dont go on my word! :-)

I was wondering if that means when the car is tested its at FULL spec? so really the base model will be less Co2 due to weight, but has to go on the advertised level of the "worst" case fully speced ?

Its a big diff between the tax groups for year 3/4 plus into 5 depending on deliver dates.

thanks

PeterMc

I wonder why the Premium packages need 18" wheels?

Driver5

Only required 18's on the Estate as i understand, can get 17's on the saloon with P and P+

Its the Pano roof which requires them on the estate, ie - if you spec just a sport with panno roof, it asks you to add 18's which takes you very close to the premium pack price without the rest of the premium kit, but pushes the CO2 up on them 18's.

If you just try to add a towbar on the sport, it also requires 18's too without the pano roof.

Its got to be the added weight of the roof or towing requirement on 17's, or just marketing !

Would be interested to see if any other markets have the same "policy"

megaoctane

Got a colleague looking into the C350e wagon. but estimated delivery in Norway will be in August.

Driver5

Been advised today estimated lead time for here in UK is 22-24 weeks... - only will confirm once the order has been placed...