240M3SRT

I love how the CL's ride. But the more i read about the problems associated with the ABC the more concerned i become. Im not even sure ill be able to find an aftermarket warranty that will cover a v12TT with 80k miles.

Im wondering if we can replace our ABC with a regular shock/strut or coilover setup, or if anyone has even tried. Ive used the search feature and it seems anytime someone asks this question they get no replies.

I figure if i sent the fronts and rears to a custom fabrication company they could build mounting hardware that will link a strut/shock to the factory points.

Do you guys think it would work? If not why?

slonar21

I think Arnott has been working on a conversion, you can't just change the shocks, these cars have no sway bars, the ABC pump is the power steering pump and you will have a permanent Red ABC warning your dash.

One of the main reasons these cars drive so well is the ABC, I think if you want to get ride of the ABC because of the costs, get ride of the CL and purchase a car with no ABC.

1995E320Cab

Search the S class forum I think they have researched this more.

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fatmike

There's a guy on here with aftermarket air on his.

Youzealand also makes a coilover kit for the car, although it's quite pricey around 7-8k iirc.

1995E320Cab

Who might that be, got a name for us ??

PS - Your ride is sick !

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fatmike

He never really elaborated on the work done:

https://mbworld.org/forums/members/1...abuscl600.html

Thanks man!

1995E320Cab

Yea he had that car for sale, I wonder if it sold. It would be nice to know more details.

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mf219

Agreed!

Austinite

My MB tech recently quit after working over 20 years with them. Anyway, we were talking last night about the whole ABC system and he is surprised that there has never been a class action lawsuit. He has seen these system fail over and over again and many times people spending several thousands to repair. He thinks this system could be better engineered. Almost always the hoses break apart where the metal meets the hose. He thinks they should be made some other way. He says he just sees so many problems over and over and it makes him feel terrible to see the customers go through so much money. Just thoughts to share

BlownV8

Yes, I have said the same about the ABC system. A hose or a pump goes out and the rest of the system starts to domino.

fatmike

Never really worried about my ABC, didn't have many problems. And it does ride great even low. Way smoother than aftermarket air.

Car should be hard lined throughout the ABC

1995E320Cab

It would be cool if we had this option .....

https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...-part-3-a.html

As you read thru you will see they are doing and SL also

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Jud Chapin

Interesting comments from your tech but I'm not sure I buy into it. I've discussed the ABC problem topic with an MB service manager who stated that his dealership finds little trouble with ABC systems. I've also discussed the subject with an MB service tech, different dealership, and he said basically the same thing, while adding it's best to keep the fluid fresh as one should do with all automotive fluids. (As an aside, he went on to say that he dislikes the various MB forums as he says they are rife with misinformation, including ABC.) In any event, I personally think that a lot of ABC problems are caused by improper repair procedures when problems do develop which just add to the repair bill.

I should also point out that my '02 CL500 has yet to have an ABC problem and it's now 10 years old.

Regarding a class action law suit, I'm sure a lot attorneys would be happy to take it on. However, first there must by enough claimants involved to make it worthwhile and I think this is where the problem lies. Just my 2 cents.

OCKlasse

Hope you didn't jinx yourself

In all seriousness though, I wonder if I should look into hardlining all of my softline. I do have some hydraulic experience, and perhaps this might be the best route of action.

Jud Chapin

Funny, I mentioned replacing the ABC hoses with aftermarket ones to the tech and he found that quite amusing. BTW, I did knock on wood (my head) after stating my '02 was ABC problem free so far.

If and when my hoses start to fail, though, I believe I'll replace them with higher pressure rated ones from a hydraulic shop. Perhaps you can make some recommendations as to pressures, etc.

240M3SRT

I pm'd Geo3 and he thought the CL and SL suspensions are interchangeable...can anyone confirm this?

If this is true it opens up a broader crowd of owners who might be interested in deleting their ABC. KW appearantly fitted their coilovers on the SL65 Black Series but im not sure which chassis or year model this was. It must have been a special product for MB only, as thier website http://kw-store.com/ doesnt show an application for any SL or CL.

Getting someone to fabricate coilovers to fit wouldnt be too difficult. With a manualy adjustable shock, a comfortable spring rate and adjustable ride height it might be a worthwhile swap. The next concern is the pump. Does anyone know if we can simply "block off" the pump inlet and outlet to the ABC so it will function as a power steering pump only? I have no idea as to what it even looks like thats why i ask.

Also theres the issue of the car throwing a code. Is this a code that will just be annoying or will it immobilize the car or throw it into some sort of limp mode? I remember when warning lights from cat deletes, missing airbags, and LED lights were a concern. Now these are things of the past.

Lastly, someone mentioned something about our cars having no swaybars. This is a legitimate concern. But i figure we can find a way to integrate a sway bar mounting point on the strut or control arm assembly.

240M3SRT

Is Arnott a screen name or a company?

To my knowledge there is no v12 bi turbo MB on the market that looks this good and is so affordable, so selling for something else is not really an option for me. Between the resources available on this forum and the various connections we have i dont see any reason we cant swap something in place of the ABC for a reasonable price.

slonar21

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w215...rnott-inc.html

You can see that removing the ABC is a very big project and probably very expensive.

1995E320Cab

Check this out, be nice to get some photos of it .......

https://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s...uspension.html

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craigrhyne

I'm very interested in this topic as well, so I thought I would do a little digging around. From a mechanical standpoint, it doesn't look like fitting the SL65 black suspension to a non BS R230 chassis car would be all that difficult. In fact, if you look at the diagrams from the mercedes epc, the middle strut assy is the abc strut, the right assy is the Black series KW coilover strut, and the left assy is what?? ...Does a normal MacPherson strut assy already exist for the r230?? The part # for said strut is: A2303230800

EDIT: Upon further research it appears that this non-ABC setup may have been available in other countries... Googling the part # brings up the part for sale in AUD (Australian) and NZ (New Zealand) currency...









Concerning the swap from an electronic standpoint, I was told the following in one of my threads on a different forum:

"Yes the r230 has the ABC setup that utilizes one pump for the power steering, hard top and suspension. You would have to bypass the suspension components so the rest would still function normally. As for codes, the black series cars actually have suspension error codes if you scan them so for the most part you can drive as-is without any CEL or traction control issues. I haven't delved into what can be turned on/off with those cars via SDS or STAR but again, being that the black series is an r230 chasis with coilovers its doable"

It might be worth mentioning that it is pretty common to reroute the hydraulic lines to merely circulate fluid (reservoir to pump to reservoir) when doing a hydraulic strut to Bilstein conversion on an R129 SL600 as the R129 shares a hydraulic pump for both it's power steering and it's suspension.

Also, according to the Mercedes epc, the abc equipped R230 SL's do have a swaybar.

Thanks,
Craig Rhyne

saintz

I believe the following is correct:

W220 S class: Airmatic or ABC
R230 SL class: ABC or coil over on Black Series
W215 CL class: ABC

The problem is that the W215 CL has never been offered with anything but ABC. Which means no sway bars or other components needed for a conventional suspension. The S can be swapped with Airmatic components. The SL should be able to use some of the BS parts. But the CL, you would have to do a fully custom job. The W216 CL is available with Airmatic.

For reliability, the best bet is to keep the reservoir full, replace the dampeners (and avoid potholes), and preemptively change the lines (possibly with higher pressure rated lines).

craigrhyne

If you look at my previous post, it seems that there are three different suspension options for the R230 chassis listed in the Mercedes Electronic Parts Catalog:

Left- Standard shock and spring setup

Middle: ABC hydraulic struts

Right: Black Series coilovers



The R230 and W220 chassis both use ABC suspension and definitely have swaybars.... I'll check the EPC for the w215 later this afternoon.

Thanks,
Craig Rhyne

240M3SRT

Thanks for researching this. Those pics are quite helpful too. It looks like i have a bit more extended warranty left to squeeze out of my CL. When it (the warranty) expires and the ABC malfunctions i hope Arnott's conversion is complete. Otherwise my car might sit in place until i can figure out how to convert this to a coilover type setup. I havent been up under the car yet, but if the R230 and W220 have swaybars as you claim maybe the lower control arms from these vehicles are in fact what Arnott is replacing ours with. If not then welding on a mounting tab for the swaybars to our existing arms is an option.

Until then ill keep my fingers crossed.

calgary

My tech fully agrees with your tech. He thinks I should drive a different model - due to the ABC problems.

240M3SRT

Heres a recap of recent evernts with my car. The red ABC light came on so i took the car in. A diagnosis revealed tiny metal particles throughout the system. The proper fix is $11000 for a whole new system and labor, etc. The temporary fix is $2500-3000 to get back on the road and theres no guarantee how long it will last. Ive decided to invest no money into the ABC, and instead focus all energies on making coilovers fit.

Can anyone confirm if the w220 S class uses our exact same suspension, as in are the part numbers and everything a direct fit? If so i believe the european market w220's had and option for the standard suspension. I cant remember where i read this(maybe the s class section), but if this is true id like to find these parts(shocks/springs, power steering pump, sway bars, control arms, etc) and put them on my car.