Replacing ABC with a regular strut or coilover setup
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 164
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From: Dallas
CL 600
Replacing ABC with a regular strut or coilover setup
I love how the CL's ride. But the more i read about the problems associated with the ABC the more concerned i become. Im not even sure ill be able to find an aftermarket warranty that will cover a v12TT with 80k miles.
Im wondering if we can replace our ABC with a regular shock/strut or coilover setup, or if anyone has even tried. Ive used the search feature and it seems anytime someone asks this question they get no replies.
I figure if i sent the fronts and rears to a custom fabrication company they could build mounting hardware that will link a strut/shock to the factory points.
Do you guys think it would work? If not why?
Im wondering if we can replace our ABC with a regular shock/strut or coilover setup, or if anyone has even tried. Ive used the search feature and it seems anytime someone asks this question they get no replies.
I figure if i sent the fronts and rears to a custom fabrication company they could build mounting hardware that will link a strut/shock to the factory points.
Do you guys think it would work? If not why?
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 254
Likes: 17
From: America
CL600 2003
I think Arnott has been working on a conversion, you can't just change the shocks, these cars have no sway bars, the ABC pump is the power steering pump and you will have a permanent Red ABC warning your dash.
One of the main reasons these cars drive so well is the ABC, I think if you want to get ride of the ABC because of the costs, get ride of the CL and purchase a car with no ABC.
One of the main reasons these cars drive so well is the ABC, I think if you want to get ride of the ABC because of the costs, get ride of the CL and purchase a car with no ABC.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 939
Likes: 5
From: Del Mar, CA
2003 CL600 2005 745Li
I love how the CL's ride. But the more i read about the problems associated with the ABC the more concerned i become. Im not even sure ill be able to find an aftermarket warranty that will cover a v12TT with 80k miles.
Im wondering if we can replace our ABC with a regular shock/strut or coilover setup, or if anyone has even tried. Ive used the search feature and it seems anytime someone asks this question they get no replies.
I figure if i sent the fronts and rears to a custom fabrication company they could build mounting hardware that will link a strut/shock to the factory points.
Do you guys think it would work? If not why?
Im wondering if we can replace our ABC with a regular shock/strut or coilover setup, or if anyone has even tried. Ive used the search feature and it seems anytime someone asks this question they get no replies.
I figure if i sent the fronts and rears to a custom fabrication company they could build mounting hardware that will link a strut/shock to the factory points.
Do you guys think it would work? If not why?
.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 939
Likes: 5
From: Del Mar, CA
2003 CL600 2005 745Li
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 623
Likes: 0
From: Boston
CLK63 BS
He never really elaborated on the work done:
https://mbworld.org/forums/members/1...abuscl600.html
Thanks man!
https://mbworld.org/forums/members/1...abuscl600.html
Thanks man!
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 939
Likes: 5
From: Del Mar, CA
2003 CL600 2005 745Li
He never really elaborated on the work done:
https://mbworld.org/forums/members/1...abuscl600.html
Thanks man!
https://mbworld.org/forums/members/1...abuscl600.html
Thanks man!
.
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Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Texas
GLC 63
My MB tech recently quit after working over 20 years with them. Anyway, we were talking last night about the whole ABC system and he is surprised that there has never been a class action lawsuit. He has seen these system fail over and over again and many times people spending several thousands to repair. He thinks this system could be better engineered. Almost always the hoses break apart where the metal meets the hose. He thinks they should be made some other way. He says he just sees so many problems over and over and it makes him feel terrible to see the customers go through so much money. Just thoughts to share
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: In my garage
E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
My MB tech recently quit after working over 20 years with them. Anyway, we were talking last night about the whole ABC system and he is surprised that there has never been a class action lawsuit. He has seen these system fail over and over again and many times people spending several thousands to repair. He thinks this system could be better engineered. Almost always the hoses break apart where the metal meets the hose. He thinks they should be made some other way. He says he just sees so many problems over and over and it makes him feel terrible to see the customers go through so much money. Just thoughts to share
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 939
Likes: 5
From: Del Mar, CA
2003 CL600 2005 745Li
It would be cool if we had this option .....
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...-part-3-a.html
As you read thru you will see they are doing and SL also
.
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...-part-3-a.html
As you read thru you will see they are doing and SL also
.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,121
Likes: 86
From: West Plam Beach, FL
'16 S550 Coupe, '11 Lexus LS460, '02 CL500 (SOLD)
My MB tech recently quit after working over 20 years with them. Anyway, we were talking last night about the whole ABC system and he is surprised that there has never been a class action lawsuit. He has seen these system fail over and over again and many times people spending several thousands to repair. He thinks this system could be better engineered. Almost always the hoses break apart where the metal meets the hose. He thinks they should be made some other way. He says he just sees so many problems over and over and it makes him feel terrible to see the customers go through so much money. Just thoughts to share
I should also point out that my '02 CL500 has yet to have an ABC problem and it's now 10 years old.
Regarding a class action law suit, I'm sure a lot attorneys would be happy to take it on. However, first there must by enough claimants involved to make it worthwhile and I think this is where the problem lies. Just my 2 cents.
MBworld Guru
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,345
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From: Irvine
04 CL55, 05 E500S4, 15 BMW i3 REx
In all seriousness though, I wonder if I should look into hardlining all of my softline. I do have some hydraulic experience, and perhaps this might be the best route of action.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,121
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From: West Plam Beach, FL
'16 S550 Coupe, '11 Lexus LS460, '02 CL500 (SOLD)
If and when my hoses start to fail, though, I believe I'll replace them with higher pressure rated ones from a hydraulic shop. Perhaps you can make some recommendations as to pressures, etc.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 164
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From: Dallas
CL 600
I pm'd Geo3 and he thought the CL and SL suspensions are interchangeable...can anyone confirm this?
If this is true it opens up a broader crowd of owners who might be interested in deleting their ABC. KW appearantly fitted their coilovers on the SL65 Black Series but im not sure which chassis or year model this was. It must have been a special product for MB only, as thier website http://kw-store.com/ doesnt show an application for any SL or CL.
Getting someone to fabricate coilovers to fit wouldnt be too difficult. With a manualy adjustable shock, a comfortable spring rate and adjustable ride height it might be a worthwhile swap. The next concern is the pump. Does anyone know if we can simply "block off" the pump inlet and outlet to the ABC so it will function as a power steering pump only? I have no idea as to what it even looks like thats why i ask.
Also theres the issue of the car throwing a code. Is this a code that will just be annoying or will it immobilize the car or throw it into some sort of limp mode? I remember when warning lights from cat deletes, missing airbags, and LED lights were a concern. Now these are things of the past.
Lastly, someone mentioned something about our cars having no swaybars. This is a legitimate concern. But i figure we can find a way to integrate a sway bar mounting point on the strut or control arm assembly.
If this is true it opens up a broader crowd of owners who might be interested in deleting their ABC. KW appearantly fitted their coilovers on the SL65 Black Series but im not sure which chassis or year model this was. It must have been a special product for MB only, as thier website http://kw-store.com/ doesnt show an application for any SL or CL.
Getting someone to fabricate coilovers to fit wouldnt be too difficult. With a manualy adjustable shock, a comfortable spring rate and adjustable ride height it might be a worthwhile swap. The next concern is the pump. Does anyone know if we can simply "block off" the pump inlet and outlet to the ABC so it will function as a power steering pump only? I have no idea as to what it even looks like thats why i ask.
Also theres the issue of the car throwing a code. Is this a code that will just be annoying or will it immobilize the car or throw it into some sort of limp mode? I remember when warning lights from cat deletes, missing airbags, and LED lights were a concern. Now these are things of the past.
Lastly, someone mentioned something about our cars having no swaybars. This is a legitimate concern. But i figure we can find a way to integrate a sway bar mounting point on the strut or control arm assembly.
Last edited by 240M3SRT; Oct 12, 2011 at 11:50 PM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
From: Dallas
CL 600
I think Arnott has been working on a conversion, you can't just change the shocks, these cars have no sway bars, the ABC pump is the power steering pump and you will have a permanent Red ABC warning your dash.
One of the main reasons these cars drive so well is the ABC, I think if you want to get ride of the ABC because of the costs, get ride of the CL and purchase a car with no ABC.
One of the main reasons these cars drive so well is the ABC, I think if you want to get ride of the ABC because of the costs, get ride of the CL and purchase a car with no ABC.
To my knowledge there is no v12 bi turbo MB on the market that looks this good and is so affordable, so selling for something else is not really an option for me. Between the resources available on this forum and the various connections we have i dont see any reason we cant swap something in place of the ABC for a reasonable price.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 254
Likes: 17
From: America
CL600 2003
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w215...rnott-inc.html
You can see that removing the ABC is a very big project and probably very expensive.
You can see that removing the ABC is a very big project and probably very expensive.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 939
Likes: 5
From: Del Mar, CA
2003 CL600 2005 745Li
Check this out, be nice to get some photos of it .......
https://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s...uspension.html
.
https://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s...uspension.html
.
Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
95 Supra Turbo; 1988 M5; 2001 Clk55 AMG
I'm very interested in this topic as well, so I thought I would do a little digging around. From a mechanical standpoint, it doesn't look like fitting the SL65 black suspension to a non BS R230 chassis car would be all that difficult. In fact, if you look at the diagrams from the mercedes epc, the middle strut assy is the abc strut, the right assy is the Black series KW coilover strut, and the left assy is what?? ...Does a normal MacPherson strut assy already exist for the r230?? The part # for said strut is: A2303230800
EDIT: Upon further research it appears that this non-ABC setup may have been available in other countries... Googling the part # brings up the part for sale in AUD (Australian) and NZ (New Zealand) currency...
Concerning the swap from an electronic standpoint, I was told the following in one of my threads on a different forum:
"Yes the r230 has the ABC setup that utilizes one pump for the power steering, hard top and suspension. You would have to bypass the suspension components so the rest would still function normally. As for codes, the black series cars actually have suspension error codes if you scan them so for the most part you can drive as-is without any CEL or traction control issues. I haven't delved into what can be turned on/off with those cars via SDS or STAR but again, being that the black series is an r230 chasis with coilovers its doable"
It might be worth mentioning that it is pretty common to reroute the hydraulic lines to merely circulate fluid (reservoir to pump to reservoir) when doing a hydraulic strut to Bilstein conversion on an R129 SL600 as the R129 shares a hydraulic pump for both it's power steering and it's suspension.
Also, according to the Mercedes epc, the abc equipped R230 SL's do have a swaybar.
Thanks,
Craig Rhyne
EDIT: Upon further research it appears that this non-ABC setup may have been available in other countries... Googling the part # brings up the part for sale in AUD (Australian) and NZ (New Zealand) currency...
Concerning the swap from an electronic standpoint, I was told the following in one of my threads on a different forum:
"Yes the r230 has the ABC setup that utilizes one pump for the power steering, hard top and suspension. You would have to bypass the suspension components so the rest would still function normally. As for codes, the black series cars actually have suspension error codes if you scan them so for the most part you can drive as-is without any CEL or traction control issues. I haven't delved into what can be turned on/off with those cars via SDS or STAR but again, being that the black series is an r230 chasis with coilovers its doable"
It might be worth mentioning that it is pretty common to reroute the hydraulic lines to merely circulate fluid (reservoir to pump to reservoir) when doing a hydraulic strut to Bilstein conversion on an R129 SL600 as the R129 shares a hydraulic pump for both it's power steering and it's suspension.
Also, according to the Mercedes epc, the abc equipped R230 SL's do have a swaybar.
Thanks,
Craig Rhyne
Last edited by craigrhyne; Oct 13, 2011 at 10:20 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,803
Likes: 12
From: Charleston, SC
GL450
I believe the following is correct:
W220 S class: Airmatic or ABC
R230 SL class: ABC or coil over on Black Series
W215 CL class: ABC
The problem is that the W215 CL has never been offered with anything but ABC. Which means no sway bars or other components needed for a conventional suspension. The S can be swapped with Airmatic components. The SL should be able to use some of the BS parts. But the CL, you would have to do a fully custom job. The W216 CL is available with Airmatic.
For reliability, the best bet is to keep the reservoir full, replace the dampeners (and avoid potholes), and preemptively change the lines (possibly with higher pressure rated lines).
W220 S class: Airmatic or ABC
R230 SL class: ABC or coil over on Black Series
W215 CL class: ABC
The problem is that the W215 CL has never been offered with anything but ABC. Which means no sway bars or other components needed for a conventional suspension. The S can be swapped with Airmatic components. The SL should be able to use some of the BS parts. But the CL, you would have to do a fully custom job. The W216 CL is available with Airmatic.
For reliability, the best bet is to keep the reservoir full, replace the dampeners (and avoid potholes), and preemptively change the lines (possibly with higher pressure rated lines).
Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
95 Supra Turbo; 1988 M5; 2001 Clk55 AMG
Left- Standard shock and spring setup
Middle: ABC hydraulic struts
Right: Black Series coilovers
W215 CL class: ABC
The problem is that the W215 CL has never been offered with anything but ABC. Which means no sway bars or other components needed for a conventional suspension. The S can be swapped with Airmatic components. The SL should be able to use some of the BS parts. But the CL, you would have to do a fully custom job. The W216 CL is available with Airmatic.
For reliability, the best bet is to keep the reservoir full, replace the dampeners (and avoid potholes), and preemptively change the lines (possibly with higher pressure rated lines).
The problem is that the W215 CL has never been offered with anything but ABC. Which means no sway bars or other components needed for a conventional suspension. The S can be swapped with Airmatic components. The SL should be able to use some of the BS parts. But the CL, you would have to do a fully custom job. The W216 CL is available with Airmatic.
For reliability, the best bet is to keep the reservoir full, replace the dampeners (and avoid potholes), and preemptively change the lines (possibly with higher pressure rated lines).
Thanks,
Craig Rhyne
Last edited by craigrhyne; Oct 14, 2011 at 02:20 PM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
From: Dallas
CL 600
If you look at my previous post, it seems that there are three different suspension options for the R230 chassis listed in the Mercedes Electronic Parts Catalog:
Left- Standard shock and spring setup
Middle: ABC hydraulic struts
Right: Black Series coilovers
The R230 and W220 chassis both use ABC suspension and definitely have swaybars.... I'll check the EPC for the w215 later this afternoon.
Thanks,
Craig Rhyne
Left- Standard shock and spring setup
Middle: ABC hydraulic struts
Right: Black Series coilovers
The R230 and W220 chassis both use ABC suspension and definitely have swaybars.... I'll check the EPC for the w215 later this afternoon.
Thanks,
Craig Rhyne
Until then ill keep my fingers crossed.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 285
Likes: 27
From: Calgary Alberta Canada
2001 Mercedes CL500 2006 E350 4-matic
My MB tech recently quit after working over 20 years with them. Anyway, we were talking last night about the whole ABC system and he is surprised that there has never been a class action lawsuit. He has seen these system fail over and over again and many times people spending several thousands to repair. He thinks this system could be better engineered. Almost always the hoses break apart where the metal meets the hose. He thinks they should be made some other way. He says he just sees so many problems over and over and it makes him feel terrible to see the customers go through so much money. Just thoughts to share
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
From: Dallas
CL 600
Heres a recap of recent evernts with my car. The red ABC light came on so i took the car in. A diagnosis revealed tiny metal particles throughout the system. The proper fix is $11000 for a whole new system and labor, etc. The temporary fix is $2500-3000 to get back on the road and theres no guarantee how long it will last. Ive decided to invest no money into the ABC, and instead focus all energies on making coilovers fit.
Can anyone confirm if the w220 S class uses our exact same suspension, as in are the part numbers and everything a direct fit? If so i believe the european market w220's had and option for the standard suspension. I cant remember where i read this(maybe the s class section), but if this is true id like to find these parts(shocks/springs, power steering pump, sway bars, control arms, etc) and put them on my car.
Can anyone confirm if the w220 S class uses our exact same suspension, as in are the part numbers and everything a direct fit? If so i believe the european market w220's had and option for the standard suspension. I cant remember where i read this(maybe the s class section), but if this is true id like to find these parts(shocks/springs, power steering pump, sway bars, control arms, etc) and put them on my car.
