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OK, I added a killer chiller with the track option, which is essentially an electric valve that shuts off flow of freon to the cabin evaporator. System was working fine for just over a week. Much colder IAT's. Gets down to under 60* on a heat soaked engine going down the freeway. Never goes over 113* at idle.
Suddenly it just quit. No signs of a refrigerant leak. Tried the reset and no change. Scanned and tested with my STAR which says low refrigerant or a bad compressor. I think it is not likely my compressor just happened to die after 9 days of the killer chiller install. A little searching on line led me to find out there is a cabin evaporator core temperature sensor. If it goes bad it gives a reading not in line with the expected value. When this happens the system shuts down.
Now I have been driving with the valve closed to the cabin evaporator almost 100% of the time, so the discrepancy between core temp and expected temp could have triggered the shut down. I plan to take it to a buddy's shop this week to have them check the refrigerant. If get checks out I'm stuck considering a new compressor.
Anyone have any experience with the A/C system shutting down due to the core temp sensor, and if so, how did you get it back on line?
Your fooooked---there is no self diagnostics on you vehicle--your left with the chop shops who don't have the diagnostics provide you with a load of BS-----even with gauges the compressor has to be running to have gauges work.
Do yourself a huge favor find someone with factory or equal diagnostics and who kow how to use the tool to solve your very simple problem!!
OK you have DAS----- it's just that you don't know how to interpret the data-----simply follow the instructions on the DAS screen---what's the problem!!
OK, I added a killer chiller with the track option, which is essentially an electric valve that shuts off flow of freon to the cabin evaporator. System was working fine for just over a week. Much colder IAT's. Gets down to under 60* on a heat soaked engine going down the freeway. Never goes over 113* at idle.
Suddenly it just quit. No signs of a refrigerant leak. Tried the reset and no change. Scanned and tested with my STAR which says low refrigerant or a bad compressor. I think it is not likely my compressor just happened to die after 9 days of the killer chiller install. A little searching on line led me to find out there is a cabin evaporator core temperature sensor. If it goes bad it gives a reading not in line with the expected value. When this happens the system shuts down.
Now I have been driving with the valve closed to the cabin evaporator almost 100% of the time, so the discrepancy between core temp and expected temp could have triggered the shut down. I plan to take it to a buddy's shop this week to have them check the refrigerant. If get checks out I'm stuck considering a new compressor.
Anyone have any experience with the A/C system shutting down due to the core temp sensor, and if so, how did you get it back on line?
Can you open the valve and reset the computer? Maybe there is a fail safe setup to prevent the compressor from running constantly. I figured my guessing couldn't be any worse.
What did Killer chiller or Kin-caid have to say? Also, there was a guy with a CL55 running one with a bunch of videos, he's no longer a member, but maybe you can contact him from his youtube videos. Good luck.
Yes, the valve is operated by a switch in my center console. No change with opening the valve and trying another reset. Haven't called Joe yet as the problem started Thurday night. I didn't get to look at it until Saturday. Did the family day Sunday. I'll try and reach Joe tomorrow.
OK you have DAS----- it's just that you don't know how to interpret the data-----simply follow the instructions on the DAS screen---what's the problem!!
Just asking if anyone has been down this road before. If running the KC in Drag mode can cause this problem, if there is another reset option, etc.
Yes I can read the test results. Yes I can follow directions. I am scheduled to have the system evacuated tomorrow, but it was just filled to the proper level less than two weeks ago and I don't see any signs of leakage. Meaning it's probably the compressor. If the sytem is still full it has to be evacuated before I can pull the compressor anyway. If it's low I have a leak. Thanks for your help...
Just asking if anyone has been down this road before. If running the KC in Drag mode can cause this problem, if there is another reset option, etc.
Yes I can read the test results. Yes I can follow directions. I am scheduled to have the system evacuated tomorrow, but it was just filled to the proper level less than two weeks ago and I don't see any signs of leakage. Meaning it's probably the compressor. If the sytem is still full it has to be evacuated before I can pull the compressor anyway. If it's low I have a leak. Thanks for your help...
No need to explain yourself to someone who doesn't even offer any advice...
I'm sure you will get it worked out, maybe check on the E55 site. There may be a few guys over there who have played around with one of these.
Is the compressor not coming on, or is it engaged but just not cooling? These are variable displacement compressors and may or may not have some external control mechanism over that (a lot of variable displacement compressors are just dumb mechanical actuation of the variable displacement mechanism based on pressure differential high/low side). If it is in fact the computer disabling the A/C because it detects a problem, then you may just have to add wiring or an additional switch to power up the compressor clutch when your drag mode is active.
Well good news. I had the system evacuated and there was only .1# of R134 left in it so, it's a leak. That may or may not suck to try and find then fix, but it is probably the cheapest and easiest problem it could be. All of the alteration I did to the refrigerant circuit is between the fiber firewall right behind the engine and the actual metal firewall. It's all under the wiper motor and brake booster so it's a pain to get to and work on, but a lot cheaper than a new compressor. Hopefully it is easy.
Well good news. I had the system evacuated and there was only .1# of R134 left in it so, it's a leak. That may or may not suck to try and find then fix, but it is probably the cheapest and easiest problem it could be. All of the alteration I did to the refrigerant circuit is between the fiber firewall right behind the engine and the actual metal firewall. It's all under the wiper motor and brake booster so it's a pain to get to and work on, but a lot cheaper than a new compressor. Hopefully it is easy.
Hopefully it's a leak in some of your plumbing/clamps and not a leak in what used to be the low side but is now high side (when in drag mode). It could really be buried somewhere in the car if it's not in the killer chiller plumbing.
Turns out it's a good news/bad news issue. It was nothing I did, turns out it's a defective drag valve. All the hoses and hose connections are dry, but the valve itself is all oily. Guess I'll back calling Joe in a few hours to see if he can overnight me a new one. Given the kind of stand up guy he has been to other members here as well as his great rep in the SVT community I moved here from I already know he will take care of it.
Just sucks that everything I did is fine but a defective part may take me out of the first weekend of racing for the season. First race weekend is a car show followed by a 45 mile drive to the track and no prep racing. Because of the drive it keeps all of the race cars out of the competition. Last year I ran the quickest pass of the day, on pump gas. This year I'm planning to run the car on 109, if I make it. Hope to run a 10 on no prep, again if I can be ready.
Wait...what!? Single worm clamps on what is effectively a high side hose when that drag valve is shut? That's a disaster waiting to happen in itself, in my opinion. I frequently find those clamps loosen up/go to seeping even on fuel hoses at much less pressure. I use two stepless ear clamps on each A/C connection (pretty much just like they do on the core itself, except I don't use the cages that tie them together). Seems strange to me that they provide the stepless clamps on the core, but not with their drag kit/other accessories.
With that said, if you do want to race it this weekend, a regular hardware store manual brass ball valve from the plumbing department will get you by until the new electronic one arrives, (provided you can find one the same size as your hose...no idea what size the lines are on your car). I prefer the PEX style, they have nice meaty ridges on the barbs. That's what I've been running on my car for a couple years now and they still work just fine.
Yeah, I wasn't too thrilled when I got hose with simple worm clamps to install it all, but that what it came with. I thought given that's how I put it together a leak was certainly possible. Figured if it got me through the summer I might change out everything for higher end parts next winter.
Wait...what!? Single worm clamps on what is effectively a high side hose when that drag valve is shut? That's a disaster waiting to happen in itself, in my opinion. I frequently find those clamps loosen up/go to seeping even on fuel hoses at much less pressure. I use two stepless ear clamps on each A/C connection (pretty much just like they do on the core itself, except I don't use the cages that tie them together). Seems strange to me that they provide the stepless clamps on the core, but not with their drag kit/other accessories.
Bit OT, but same experience with my lines of LPG injection that i drive my E430 here in germany with. You can re-tighten them every 3 months or so.
I will replace them with ear clamps as soon as i replaced all filters and stuff.
My plan is to have permanent lines made next winter if the system works well. Going to try and get through the Labor day with the current setup. I have a local hydraulics shop that I work with that will build me some nice permanent lines that should look almost factory.
I would be super curious to know what the peak performance of that chiller is in drag mode. Have you considered trying to quantify your Killer Chiller's performance in terms of max cooling capacity over a fixed time period while sitting still (to simulate chilling at the track between passes)? Like say if you hooked the core up on the water side to a large reservoir of known quantity with an extra pump so it wasn't running through the intercoolers and measured water temp before, and ran it for 15 minutes or something chilling and record the water temp again. I would love to see results of a test like that to figure out your BTU capacity. But I'm guessing you weren't planning on messing with the core itself to replace that valve, so it might not be a convenient time to try and do that.
I will definitely be running that kind of test when I set mine up. By the way, I'm definitely looking forward to seeing some track results with the chiller! Hope you get it fixed in time.
Got another question for you as well...have you considered alternative refrigerants? I know of one in particular that works great. It's not approved for use in the U.S. unfortunately...because you know, none of us would ever modify our cars in a way that the government says not to
Due to the difficulty acquiring "other" refrigerants here, I gave up on that. I am running so late getting the car ready I'm just try to do get it working so no testing like you are planning, however I've done some real world testing that has shown good results. After Memorial weekend I'll have some track results too.
My "real world test" was a 25 mile drive after a dyno operator overly heat soaked my IATS. On that drive, within about 10 miles IAT's got down to 4* over ambient. I then parked for 45 minutes with the car off. Drove a few miles through a small town with stop/go conditions, parked another 45 minutes (car off). Basically the car was as heat soaked as it could get when I started after that. On start up IAT's were 183*. It cooled to under 120* before I got two miles where the freeway on ramp is. I the drove another 18 miles about 12 of those on the freeway. During that drive I did two 30-90 pulls and two 60-140 pulls. At the end of the drive I let the car idle for 15 minutes with the hood still shut while my wife went into the store. during that idling time the highest my temps climbed to was 113*. When my wife came out of the store, and before driving again I revved the car to about 3000 RPM for about 20 seconds and watched my IAT's drop from 113* to 82* right there on my parking spot. I then drove home 3 miles on neighborhood roads so mostly 25 mph or less. IAT's were still in the 80's as I backed into my garage. With the car still running I immediately opened the hood, and according to my infrared thermometer the top of the intercoolers themselves were on the 50's. That is when I took this pic.
I would say take any CL65 without a killer chiller, drive it enough to thoroughly heat soak it, then idle for 15 minutes, the drive slow for a few miles and measure the temp of the intercoolers like above and I'll be shocked if they are under 110*. No I haven't tried it, but I know before the KC my IAT's would have been at least 50-70* higher at that moment.
It sounds to me like the performance is better than I would have predicted, so these variable displacement compressors on these cars must really put out some good work. Here's my "other" refrigerant. You shouldn't have any trouble acquiring it. Finding someone to put it in if you don't have a gauge set yourself may be tricky...you've gotta make an adapter hose.
Thought you were talking about R12, LOL. Given how good it's working, and this is with a tiny CM-30 pump, I'm thin king of insulating the Intercoolers and probably just living with it that way.
Thought you were talking about R12, LOL. Given how good it's working, and this is with a tiny CM-30 pump, I'm thin king of insulating the Intercoolers and probably just living with it that way.
Yeah, propane is actually a bit colder than R12 even. The condensing temps are low too though, so you really need a lot of airflow/condenser capacity to run it for a high A/C load (like when chilling water). Some people freak out about the fact that it's flammable...not realizing that 134a actually has only a slightly higher autoignition temperature anyway.
I plan to test system performance with both and see which makes more sense in this case. In the past on my other cars, I've been very impressed with what hooking up the BBQ cylinder instead of the freon bottle can do in terms of perceived performance at least (no real easy way to actually measure it except calculating temp change over time on something with a lot of thermal mass like a large intercooler circuit). I mean vent discharge temps are certainly colder with it, but as far as total heat removed per unit time (like say cooling off a heatsoaked vehicle interior) I can't say for sure if it's any better than 134a or not.
Glad to hear you got it worked out! Please let us know what the real world day to day performance is like. I would sure be interested in your feedback. Nice looking install and I sure like that very nice looking intercooler system overflow container!
For reference do the CLs have a separate rear AC condenser in the center console like the S classes do?
Thanks. I'll keep the results coming. I already know around town daily driving it works better than the stock system with a pump upgrade did on my car. However, the 9 days it was working it only got up to the mid 50's outside so I'll have to see how well it works once it warms up more. IAT's that stay cool during stop and go traffic are great, but I'm more looking forward to drag racing when I launch with IAT's in the 70's.
The CL does not have a rear seat evaporator like the S.
05-08-2016, 04:28 AM
All the hoses and hose connections are dry, but the valve itself is all oily. Guess I'll back calling Joe in a few hours to see if he can overnight me a new one. Given the kind of stand up guy he has been to other members here as well as his great rep in the SVT community I moved here from I already know he will take care of it. 
