2012 E-Class changes - No Airmatic
#103
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
If I lived in a wide-land/non-congested area, my priorities would definitely be different.
#104
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Back to this Airmatic thing... This photo is supposedly from a 2012 model and it has the Airmatic buttons... What gives?
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2012-...e/med/#4128155
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2012-...e/med/#4128155
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2016 Audi S8 Plus/ 2011 Mercedes e550 4Matic//Gone:1985 500SEL/2000 e320 4Matic/ 2001 e55 Kleeman
You whine about the airmatic so much I am surprised that you don't have a 2012 E on order yet.
FYI you are the ONLY person to whine about airmatic.
Only other real complaint about the airmatic is maintenance after warranty, the occasional failed airmatic, and "its not perfect."
FYI you are the ONLY person to whine about airmatic.
Only other real complaint about the airmatic is maintenance after warranty, the occasional failed airmatic, and "its not perfect."
#107
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I am NOT the only person who has "whined" about the airmatic on this forum. It does some things well but has its shortcomings. It all depends what is important to you in a suspension and the kinds of roads that you typically drive on. Also keep in mind that there are many more e350 drivers as compared to e550s so there is less feedback on airmatic. Even my dealership said that they had way more blowouts this winter with customers with airmatic. There simply isn't as much travel when you hit a pothole so the tire and rim absorb more of the impact. End of story. Those who don't have my issues and drive on better roads, power to you and enjoy. Personally, I wish it worked better. And when the new e550s are out, I will test drive one and see if I like it. If so, I will try to negotiate a good trade. Maybe the fact that the 2012s don't have airmatic will help with the resale value. I hope so. Regards. Ned.
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There is no doubt in my mind that the increased blowouts are due to the combination of the low profile tires as well as the airmatic. I was visiting the s550 forum and the number of bent rims and blowouts is epidemic, with some people saying they have had 10 blowouts over the years. The s550 has airmatic and 19 inch rims. There is a bigger sample of airmatic with the s550 since that is the standard suspension as opposed to a much smaller sample size on the 212 e forum since a majority have e350's. I like the general drive of the air shocks, but the lack of travel over medium potholes and resulting jarring jolt is a major negative on the roads of New Jersey. Regards. Ned.
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There is no doubt in my mind that the increased blowouts are due to the combination of the low profile tires as well as the airmatic. I was visiting the s550 forum and the number of bent rims and blowouts is epidemic, with some people saying they have had 10 blowouts over the years. The s550 has airmatic and 19 inch rims. There is a bigger sample of airmatic with the s550 since that is the standard suspension as opposed to a much smaller sample size on the 212 e forum since a majority have e350's. I like the general drive of the air shocks, but the lack of travel over medium potholes and resulting jarring jolt is a major negative on the roads of New Jersey. Regards. Ned.
I just did a search over all the boards on MBWorld. The topics concerning potholes and blowouts are across all models. C Class, older MBs, E350s, etc., and are not exclusive to any specific model or suspension.
Then I did a Google search typing in this: "BMW pothole blowout." Then I changed BMW to "Audi, Porsche, Mercedes, Lexus, Jaguar." Potholes and tire blowouts are endemic.
But there's one common connection: geographic area. There tends to be more complaints on the East Coast, esp NY and NJ. Although I wouldn't say it's worse there unless I had the real data. There are still plenty of complaints coming from LA and San Diego and elsewhere.
Search here and you'll find tire blowout threads with the E350 sport suspension, too. Also search on Benzworld.
I know the service manager of the dealership here and I'll ask him what their statistics might be with Airmatic cars versus steel suspension. But looking at all the Google hits of all car types, I think it's just a combo of road conditions, driving style, and luck of the draw.
We have potholes here. I've hit them (at various speeds) with no issues. Maybe I'm just lucky....
What brand of tires are people using who you've felt have had more than a fair share of issues? What brand are you using? fwiw, I use Michelin PS2 which are known for a stiffer sidewall (for better handling performance; less squirm in the twisties, etc..)
Here's a thread (that didn't go anywhere unfortunately) concerning tire brands. It was started by an E350 owner who had problems. From reading it, the big issue seemed to come from winter ravaged roads. https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...-potholes.html
Anyway, it's endemic and not just you. Here's a tire manufacturer talking about it:
In the UK: http://www.conti-online.com/generato...othole-en.html
In Germany: http://www.conti-online.com/generato...oecher_en.html
And Continental seem to have some of the biggest complaints over other brands. Their sidewalls (on the OEM Continental equipped MB cars) are relatively soft (good for comfort but not for support when hitting potholes.) The first thing I did when I had an E350 was to get rid of the Contis. I personally just didn't like their road characteristics in general.
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I'm so glad that MB haven't gone to RFTs.
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From what I've read about RFT's (from the Bimmer Board mind you, as people who don't have them definitely have no intentions of wanting them), they are complete disasters that should be avoided at all costs. F10's right now are experiencing sidewall bubbles when hitting potholes.
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2012 S350 Bluetec 4Matic, Diamond White, P2
My Bluetec has the Bridgestone Turanza Run Flats, and in all honesty, I have no real complaints with them. Their all-season tread is not the best in light snow, but, other than that, they are nowhere near as bad as folks write about. It makes me wonder how many folks who complain about them actually have them. The amount of sidewall is what gives you the buffer against blowouts. Run flats are the only way to go if you need the "big wheel" look. They give you a fighting chance, and is no doubt one of the reasons behind BMW offering them on so many of their vehicles.
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Yes the run flats on our last bimmer were harder riding but they did offer extra peace of mind. I would have to imagine with reinforced side walls they'd offer some extra protection against sidewall blow outs but no matter how robust hitting a deep pothole at speed will take out the best tire
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Yes the run flats on our last bimmer were harder riding but they did offer extra peace of mind. I would have to imagine with reinforced side walls they'd offer some extra protection against sidewall blow outs but no matter how robust hitting a deep pothole at speed will take out the best tire
The question about using RFTs on MBs was asked back in April during the Private Lounge forum chat session with the MBUSA AMG product managers in NJ. They said MB does offer RFTs on the BlueTec models. However the bead design of the wheels need to be designed to hold the RFTs onto the wheel during a puncture. And so the implication is that you're always going to be dependent on wheels that can properly use RFTs. Also they said the current RFTs create a harsher ride that not everyone wants.
They said the decision not to use them at all on the AMG side of things is because of sidewall flex and its predictability as a critical factor when they design suspensions for better handling and comfort.
They said with RFTs the comfort factor and suspension response is diminished when using current RFT technology. They felt that they can't tune suspensions very well with the sidewall response of today's RFTs. That can change if RFT technology gets a lot better (which would eventually happen if they become more accepted by the public.)
So, yeah, if you want peace of mind and aren't concerned about ride quality and suspension characteristics, then RFTs would be a good choice. But not primarily for performance and or/comfort. One can always choose to use RFTs, but I think it would be better if BMW offered an option (along with a place for a spare of some kind.) At least MB owners can use RFTs or not and still have a place for a spare.
Although if BMW is designing suspensions solely for RFTs then non-RFTs might compromise that design Since RFT technology changes (the early RFTs were horrible), I think I'd personally rather have a suspension designed around regular non-RFTs.
Last edited by 220S; 05-30-2011 at 02:05 AM.
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If M-B put RFT's on the W212 Sport it would ride like absolute hell on rough surfaces, as it's already harsh enough (on rough surfaces).
#117
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03 E500 and Corvette
The brand of RFT tire makes a big difference. I have been using RFT's on my Corvette for 10 yrs and won't run without them. Michelin's or Firestone Firehawk both work well and way better than other brands. Just my observation of course yours may be different on different cars.
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I suppose one could come to that conclusion depending on what they read in a forum. But the real data would be more relevant. I don't know where that data could come from to be conclusive in the assessment, however.
I just did a search over all the boards on MBWorld. The topics concerning potholes and blowouts are across all models. C Class, older MBs, E350s, etc., and are not exclusive to any specific model or suspension.
Then I did a Google search typing in this: "BMW pothole blowout." Then I changed BMW to "Audi, Porsche, Mercedes, Lexus, Jaguar." Potholes and tire blowouts are endemic.
But there's one common connection: geographic area. There tends to be more complaints on the East Coast, esp NY and NJ. Although I wouldn't say it's worse there unless I had the real data. There are still plenty of complaints coming from LA and San Diego and elsewhere.
Search here and you'll find tire blowout threads with the E350 sport suspension, too. Also search on Benzworld.
I know the service manager of the dealership here and I'll ask him what their statistics might be with Airmatic cars versus steel suspension. But looking at all the Google hits of all car types, I think it's just a combo of road conditions, driving style, and luck of the draw.
We have potholes here. I've hit them (at various speeds) with no issues. Maybe I'm just lucky....
What brand of tires are people using who you've felt have had more than a fair share of issues? What brand are you using? fwiw, I use Michelin PS2 which are known for a stiffer sidewall (for better handling performance; less squirm in the twisties, etc..)
Here's a thread (that didn't go anywhere unfortunately) concerning tire brands. It was started by an E350 owner who had problems. From reading it, the big issue seemed to come from winter ravaged roads. https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...-potholes.html
Anyway, it's endemic and not just you. Here's a tire manufacturer talking about it:
In the UK: http://www.conti-online.com/generato...othole-en.html
In Germany: http://www.conti-online.com/generato...oecher_en.html
And Continental seem to have some of the biggest complaints over other brands. Their sidewalls (on the OEM Continental equipped MB cars) are relatively soft (good for comfort but not for support when hitting potholes.) The first thing I did when I had an E350 was to get rid of the Contis. I personally just didn't like their road characteristics in general.
I just did a search over all the boards on MBWorld. The topics concerning potholes and blowouts are across all models. C Class, older MBs, E350s, etc., and are not exclusive to any specific model or suspension.
Then I did a Google search typing in this: "BMW pothole blowout." Then I changed BMW to "Audi, Porsche, Mercedes, Lexus, Jaguar." Potholes and tire blowouts are endemic.
But there's one common connection: geographic area. There tends to be more complaints on the East Coast, esp NY and NJ. Although I wouldn't say it's worse there unless I had the real data. There are still plenty of complaints coming from LA and San Diego and elsewhere.
Search here and you'll find tire blowout threads with the E350 sport suspension, too. Also search on Benzworld.
I know the service manager of the dealership here and I'll ask him what their statistics might be with Airmatic cars versus steel suspension. But looking at all the Google hits of all car types, I think it's just a combo of road conditions, driving style, and luck of the draw.
We have potholes here. I've hit them (at various speeds) with no issues. Maybe I'm just lucky....
What brand of tires are people using who you've felt have had more than a fair share of issues? What brand are you using? fwiw, I use Michelin PS2 which are known for a stiffer sidewall (for better handling performance; less squirm in the twisties, etc..)
Here's a thread (that didn't go anywhere unfortunately) concerning tire brands. It was started by an E350 owner who had problems. From reading it, the big issue seemed to come from winter ravaged roads. https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...-potholes.html
Anyway, it's endemic and not just you. Here's a tire manufacturer talking about it:
In the UK: http://www.conti-online.com/generato...othole-en.html
In Germany: http://www.conti-online.com/generato...oecher_en.html
And Continental seem to have some of the biggest complaints over other brands. Their sidewalls (on the OEM Continental equipped MB cars) are relatively soft (good for comfort but not for support when hitting potholes.) The first thing I did when I had an E350 was to get rid of the Contis. I personally just didn't like their road characteristics in general.
Last edited by ngerstman; 05-30-2011 at 11:42 AM.
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2012 C250 Sport
I suppose so. It does sound logical. The complaint about RFTs primarily comes from folks looking for performance over peace of mind. A lot of new F10 owners complain that the RFTs are what help contribute to the "distant" steering feel of the F10 over previous models of the 5 series. But who knows if that's right or not.
On a somewhat related note, I remember being absolutely horrified at the high-speed ride of the 330i loaner they gave out (which I think had the sport suspension and larger tires, which I don't think were RFT, at the time). Obviously, the loaner might've had a hard life, but the low-speed ride was superior to the regular 328i but the freeway ride was harsh that it had me gasping over bumps and potholes. I found it completely unacceptable and was surprised that there are so many sport suspension equipped BMWs running around....
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^^ Kinda like the M3 Sedan I rode in. Rode like absolute sh**. Switching lanes and going over those deflector bumps made you feel like you were gonna rattle apart. In actuality, it rides like that because it has the capabilities of a race car, however, since you'll probably never push it to those capabilities, in day to day traffic, it feels/sounds like a hooptie when going over bumps. This was one of the several factors in why I chose an E350 over an M3 I was cross shopping (I was shopping the Coupe though ).
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2012 S350 Bluetec 4Matic, Diamond White, P2
The brand of RFT tire makes a big difference. I have been using RFT's on my Corvette for 10 yrs and won't run without them. Michelin's or Firestone Firehawk both work well and way better than other brands. Just my observation of course yours may be different on different cars.
#122
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
Lol @ "Animal free interior" in your Sig. I will start using that as well (way to make it sound more premium than Leather eh? M-B should take notes ).
It's not entirely true though.... we do have that super smooth and luxurious Nappa wrapped steering wheel.
It's not entirely true though.... we do have that super smooth and luxurious Nappa wrapped steering wheel.
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^^ Kinda like the M3 Sedan I rode in. Rode like absolute sh**. Switching lanes and going over those deflector bumps made you feel like you were gonna rattle apart. In actuality, it rides like that because it has the capabilities of a race car, however, since you'll probably never push it to those capabilities, in day to day traffic, it feels/sounds like a hooptie when going over bumps. This was one of the several factors in why I chose an E350 over an M3 I was cross shopping (I was shopping the Coupe though ).
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Porsche Macan S SportDesign / Ex M-B's: 11 & 10 & 06 E350's, 02 S500
It was my friends car that I had the more in-depth experience with. I don't know what setting he had on, but it was a brand new car practically. Whatever it was, that suspension was majorly stiff.