asitreadalong

It's not in or out of the box thinking you need it's basic troubleshooting. Dropping to the wrong size tire can't cure hydroplaning or increase wear. If your tires are hydroplaning after 8k miles check the tread depth if it's below 4/32nds where you would start to experience hydroplaning your alignment is off or tire pressure is off. Hydroplaning happens when water can't escape from the treads. You won't get better than 30k miles on these gl setups. That's common now with these newer vehicles.

mrchris

All else being equal, a wider tire will hydroplane at a lower speed than a narrower one. It's simple physics and well documented. To say the tire size I picked is "wrong" is a subjective assessment by you. MB has anywhere from 4 to 7 different tire sizes depending on year for this model and intended purpose. The platform this suv shares with it's other branded siblings (the new Durango and the Grand Cherokee's) come with this size as an available option.

Yes a well designed tire with proper avenues for water to escape with resist hydroplaning better than a narrower bald tire. But the same tire design on the same weight vehicle, the wider tire will hydroplane at a lower speed. All tires will hydroplane given water and sufficient speed.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=16

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...oplaning-tires

asitreadalong

All things are NOT equal when your comparing using tire sizes from a dodge Durango and a tire size from a Mercedes gl right? Look I'm in the tire business for over 15 years. I call on and speak with techs all day long. Not one of us would advocate this move. But it's a free world and it's your car so have at it. Your just swapping problems in my opinion.

a2j

There is no difference in tire size for 320s and 450s. IIRC, owners manual lists one more (larger size) as an option for 550s.

asitreadalong

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...oplaning-tires[/QUOTE]

Q: Do low profile tires tend to hydroplane more than regular tires?

A: Hydroplaning is a function of tire footprint, all other things being equal, a tire with a wider footprint will tend to hydroplane more. If the low-profile tire is wider, it will indeed hydroplane more easily. If the tire is low-profile, but has the same tread width, no.

Read more: Which Tires Hydroplane More Easily? - Popular Mechanics
Follow us: @PopMech on Twitter | popularmechanics on Facebook
Visit us at PopularMechanics.com

The above is from Poplular Mechanics and I have questions.
1. What aspect ratio constitutes a low proflie? 50/40/30
2. What is a regular tire?

alx

pirellies are junk because if in addition to your retail store you owned a hunter dsp road force machine you would know that half of the scorpions are out of round and you cant really balance them properly. they are typical italian junk that has been peddled to all european manufacturers as the lowest bidder.

let alone the premature noise levels.

let alone that i have raced a bit and the sportiest pirellis are really not that great either- especially at the price point.

so.. yeah... junk. overpriced.

N_Jay

Q: Do low profile tires tend to hydroplane more than regular tires?

A: Hydroplaning is a function of tire footprint, all other things being equal, a tire with a wider footprint will tend to hydroplane more. If the low-profile tire is wider, it will indeed hydroplane more easily. If the tire is low-profile, but has the same tread width, no.

Read more: Which Tires Hydroplane More Easily? - Popular Mechanics
Follow us: @PopMech on Twitter | popularmechanics on Facebook
Visit us at PopularMechanics.com

The above is from Poplular Mechanics and I have questions.
1. What aspect ratio constitutes a low proflie? 50/40/30
2. What is a regular tire?[/QUOTE]


Given that most try to keep a rolling radius similar to stock;
Low profile is wider than stock.


A lot of people assume that wider always provides more traction, but other than cornering, and in slippery conditions, the opposite is often the case.

asitreadalong

I know tires what I'm pointing out is that Popular Mechanics answer on Hydroplaning are too open ended to be considered practical for real world analysis.

alx

lol.

please go to your local track and count folks running pirellis and those running "lowly" hankooks or sumitomos. i think you will be hard pressed to find anybody with pirellis.

you think it is the price point? while at the track count folks running michelins, yoks and bridgestones. you will see many and those tires are the same money as the pirellis.

pirelli used to be a great tire company. 30 years ago. maybe. lol.

N_Jay

How so?
Given the question asked, how would you answer it?

asitreadalong

Hydroplaning occurs when water becomes trapped in the tread and can not escape from the circumfrential grooves. New tires are manufactured to allow water to escape limiting or preventing hydroplaning. As the tire wears down the escape channels are blocked and hydroplaning can become more pronounced. There are many combinations of weather and tire wear that will introduce hydroplaning where there wasn't before. It is not practical to change tires sizes on today's newer vehicles to reduce hydroplaning.

alx

dropping a narrower tire can reduce/ eliminate hydroplaning under conditions where hydroplaning was presented with the wider tire. ofcourse assumption is made that the tires are not worn out.

you are correct however, that a wider/ narrower taller/shorter than recommended tire can mess up alignment, wear and esp/abs.

asitreadalong

Seriously! Pirelli outfits F1 racing cars. What are talking about? I've been to Pirelli plants in the USA, Brazil and Italy. They are world class tires made in world class plants and put on world class cars.

alx

seriously? do you run on f1 tires? i dont...

you realize that every f1 tire is virtually a one off.

we are talking mass produced tires here. as far as i am concerned pirelli can have a factory on the moon. changes nothing.

N_Jay

Hydroplaning is a little more complex that that.


And yes, tread aside, you can reduce hydroplaning by using narrower profile tiers, and/or increasing your tire pressure (obviously staying within safe practices)

N_Jay

F1 tires are definitely so different from consumer production tires, making one well, does not relate much to the other.


My experience with Pirellis has been mixed. It seems they come out with a good series, then build a bunch of similar named tires that at best are mediocre.


The only company that seems consistently good across the brand is Michelin.
I am not saying their tires are the "best".
I am just saying that without comparative experience with a multiple types and sizes on a particular vehicle, (which few of us have) I have always had good results.

asitreadalong

This is false. You're a liar. No shop or dealership I know of and that's 100's is having trouble balancing 50% of Pirelli tires. Most Pirelli tires are not made in Italy. Like all world class tires they are made in plants all over the world. I just dropped off 8 Pirelli Scorpians to a very big Northeast Porsche Audi dealership with state of the art installation equipment. The tires were made in Great Britain. The dealership reports no problems mounting or balancing the tires or any complaints from customers other than quick tire wear. (which is a completely different topic)

asitreadalong

You asked me to go down to the local track to see what tires were being used. You're the one that took me out of the real world.

asitreadalong

How much more complex is it?

N_Jay

Start here:
http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/1147.pdf

asitreadalong

Pretty cool article. The last few sentences of Theory pretty much cover what I expressed earlier.

When
there is sufficient macro texture on the surface and / or the tire has proper tread, total dynamic
hydroplaning will usually not occur. However, hydroplaning can occur when the water depth is
high enough so that both tire tread and runway macro texture cannot drain the water quick
enough.

alx

just the voice of experience.

all new tires will balance sufficiently when new. so most shops (i am sure yours falls in this category based on your lack of knowledge of basic concepts) will balance sufficiently to have a happy (initially) customer.

however, certain tire brands (like pirelli) tend to be out of round more than the others. this is very noticeable when road forcing the tire with a machine like a hunter dsp. out of round will not show on any other "regular" balancing machine but if you have seen enough tires spinning even on a regular machine you will know instantly when one is out of round more than the others.. and pirellis do that a lot. more than any other "expensive" tire.

unfortunately most out of round tires will wear out in a way that will make them very noisy over time. also, depending on how they are some will develop vibrations that cannot be balanced out.

alx

the track is about as real world as it gets. this is where folks like me and you rely on the tire to turn fast laps. f1 in comparison might be a different galaxy when it comes to tires.... and engines... and suspension and.... you get the idea.

asitreadalong

Where is it you're having problems with all the Pirellis your're running on the track or driving around town?

I don't race cars. I don't go to tracks I'm not sure where you got the idea I did. I was only speaking about passenger car tires until you derailed to the track. but I pointed out that Pirelli is a respected track tire. Hankooks are made in Korea FYI.

asitreadalong

Where is your proof of these statements?