Input on Pirelli Scorpion Zero?
Newbie
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GL 450
It's not in or out of the box thinking you need it's basic troubleshooting. Dropping to the wrong size tire can't cure hydroplaning or increase wear. If your tires are hydroplaning after 8k miles check the tread depth if it's below 4/32nds where you would start to experience hydroplaning your alignment is off or tire pressure is off. Hydroplaning happens when water can't escape from the treads. You won't get better than 30k miles on these gl setups. That's common now with these newer vehicles.
Member
Joined: Nov 2010
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From: Seattle, WA
2001 SLK 230, 2007 GL 450
All else being equal, a wider tire will hydroplane at a lower speed than a narrower one. It's simple physics and well documented. To say the tire size I picked is "wrong" is a subjective assessment by you. MB has anywhere from 4 to 7 different tire sizes depending on year for this model and intended purpose. The platform this suv shares with it's other branded siblings (the new Durango and the Grand Cherokee's) come with this size as an available option.
Yes a well designed tire with proper avenues for water to escape with resist hydroplaning better than a narrower bald tire. But the same tire design on the same weight vehicle, the wider tire will hydroplane at a lower speed. All tires will hydroplane given water and sufficient speed.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=16
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...oplaning-tires
Yes a well designed tire with proper avenues for water to escape with resist hydroplaning better than a narrower bald tire. But the same tire design on the same weight vehicle, the wider tire will hydroplane at a lower speed. All tires will hydroplane given water and sufficient speed.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=16
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...oplaning-tires
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2013
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GL 450
All things are NOT equal when your comparing using tire sizes from a dodge Durango and a tire size from a Mercedes gl right? Look I'm in the tire business for over 15 years. I call on and speak with techs all day long. Not one of us would advocate this move. But it's a free world and it's your car so have at it. Your just swapping problems in my opinion.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2012
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2008 GL320CDI (310k) & 2017 GLS450 (160k)
The 320's have narrower tires and are generally more popular here in the NW because of the diesel engine. But those with 450's and especially the 550's have horrible hydroplaning issues. A buddy of mine with a 550 finally changed tires out of desperation as his wife wanted to trade it in for another vehicle.
Newbie
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GL 450
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...oplaning-tires[/QUOTE]
Q: Do low profile tires tend to hydroplane more than regular tires?
A: Hydroplaning is a function of tire footprint, all other things being equal, a tire with a wider footprint will tend to hydroplane more. If the low-profile tire is wider, it will indeed hydroplane more easily. If the tire is low-profile, but has the same tread width, no.
Read more: Which Tires Hydroplane More Easily? - Popular Mechanics
Follow us: @PopMech on Twitter | popularmechanics on Facebook
Visit us at PopularMechanics.com
The above is from Poplular Mechanics and I have questions.
1. What aspect ratio constitutes a low proflie? 50/40/30
2. What is a regular tire?
Q: Do low profile tires tend to hydroplane more than regular tires?
A: Hydroplaning is a function of tire footprint, all other things being equal, a tire with a wider footprint will tend to hydroplane more. If the low-profile tire is wider, it will indeed hydroplane more easily. If the tire is low-profile, but has the same tread width, no.
Read more: Which Tires Hydroplane More Easily? - Popular Mechanics
Follow us: @PopMech on Twitter | popularmechanics on Facebook
Visit us at PopularMechanics.com
The above is from Poplular Mechanics and I have questions.
1. What aspect ratio constitutes a low proflie? 50/40/30
2. What is a regular tire?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,268
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let alone the premature noise levels.
let alone that i have raced a bit and the sportiest pirellis are really not that great either- especially at the price point.
so.. yeah... junk. overpriced.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
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From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
A: Hydroplaning is a function of tire footprint, all other things being equal, a tire with a wider footprint will tend to hydroplane more. If the low-profile tire is wider, it will indeed hydroplane more easily. If the tire is low-profile, but has the same tread width, no.
Read more: Which Tires Hydroplane More Easily? - Popular Mechanics
Follow us: @PopMech on Twitter | popularmechanics on Facebook
Visit us at PopularMechanics.com
The above is from Poplular Mechanics and I have questions.
1. What aspect ratio constitutes a low proflie? 50/40/30
2. What is a regular tire?[/QUOTE]
Given that most try to keep a rolling radius similar to stock;
Low profile is wider than stock.
A lot of people assume that wider always provides more traction, but other than cornering, and in slippery conditions, the opposite is often the case.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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please go to your local track and count folks running pirellis and those running "lowly" hankooks or sumitomos. i think you will be hard pressed to find anybody with pirellis.
you think it is the price point? while at the track count folks running michelins, yoks and bridgestones. you will see many and those tires are the same money as the pirellis.
pirelli used to be a great tire company. 30 years ago. maybe. lol.
Out Of Control!!
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From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Newbie
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GL 450
Hydroplaning occurs when water becomes trapped in the tread and can not escape from the circumfrential grooves. New tires are manufactured to allow water to escape limiting or preventing hydroplaning. As the tire wears down the escape channels are blocked and hydroplaning can become more pronounced. There are many combinations of weather and tire wear that will introduce hydroplaning where there wasn't before. It is not practical to change tires sizes on today's newer vehicles to reduce hydroplaning.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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you are correct however, that a wider/ narrower taller/shorter than recommended tire can mess up alignment, wear and esp/abs.
Newbie
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GL 450
lol.
please go to your local track and count folks running pirellis and those running "lowly" hankooks or sumitomos. i think you will be hard pressed to find anybody with pirellis.
you think it is the price point? while at the track count folks running michelins, yoks and bridgestones. you will see many and those tires are the same money as the pirellis.
pirelli used to be a great tire company. 30 years ago. maybe. lol.
please go to your local track and count folks running pirellis and those running "lowly" hankooks or sumitomos. i think you will be hard pressed to find anybody with pirellis.
you think it is the price point? while at the track count folks running michelins, yoks and bridgestones. you will see many and those tires are the same money as the pirellis.
pirelli used to be a great tire company. 30 years ago. maybe. lol.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2004
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you realize that every f1 tire is virtually a one off.
we are talking mass produced tires here. as far as i am concerned pirelli can have a factory on the moon. changes nothing.
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Hydroplaning occurs when water becomes trapped in the tread and can not escape from the circumfrential grooves. New tires are manufactured to allow water to escape limiting or preventing hydroplaning. As the tire wears down the escape channels are blocked and hydroplaning can become more pronounced. There are many combinations of weather and tire wear that will introduce hydroplaning where there wasn't before. It is not practical to change tires sizes on today's newer vehicles to reduce hydroplaning.
Hydroplaning is a little more complex that that.
And yes, tread aside, you can reduce hydroplaning by using narrower profile tiers, and/or increasing your tire pressure (obviously staying within safe practices)
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
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From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
My experience with Pirellis has been mixed. It seems they come out with a good series, then build a bunch of similar named tires that at best are mediocre.
The only company that seems consistently good across the brand is Michelin.
I am not saying their tires are the "best".
I am just saying that without comparative experience with a multiple types and sizes on a particular vehicle, (which few of us have) I have always had good results.
Newbie
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GL 450
pirellies are junk because if in addition to your retail store you owned a hunter dsp road force machine you would know that half of the scorpions are out of round and you cant really balance them properly. they are typical italian junk that has been peddled to all european manufacturers as the lowest bidder.
let alone the premature noise levels.
let alone that i have raced a bit and the sportiest pirellis are really not that great either- especially at the price point.
so.. yeah... junk. overpriced.
let alone the premature noise levels.
let alone that i have raced a bit and the sportiest pirellis are really not that great either- especially at the price point.
so.. yeah... junk. overpriced.
Last edited by asitreadalong; Jan 9, 2014 at 01:06 PM.
Newbie
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GL 450
You asked me to go down to the local track to see what tires were being used. You're the one that took me out of the real world.
Newbie
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Posts: 29
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GL 450
Out Of Control!!
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,516
Likes: 628
From: Charlotte NC area
2019 WS222 S450 4-Matic / 2007 W211 E350 4Matic (Sold) / 2008 X164 GL320 CDI
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 29
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GL 450
When
there is sufficient macro texture on the surface and / or the tire has proper tread, total dynamic
hydroplaning will usually not occur. However, hydroplaning can occur when the water depth is
high enough so that both tire tread and runway macro texture cannot drain the water quick
enough.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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all new tires will balance sufficiently when new. so most shops (i am sure yours falls in this category based on your lack of knowledge of basic concepts) will balance sufficiently to have a happy (initially) customer.
however, certain tire brands (like pirelli) tend to be out of round more than the others. this is very noticeable when road forcing the tire with a machine like a hunter dsp. out of round will not show on any other "regular" balancing machine but if you have seen enough tires spinning even on a regular machine you will know instantly when one is out of round more than the others.. and pirellis do that a lot. more than any other "expensive" tire.
unfortunately most out of round tires will wear out in a way that will make them very noisy over time. also, depending on how they are some will develop vibrations that cannot be balanced out.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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the track is about as real world as it gets. this is where folks like me and you rely on the tire to turn fast laps. f1 in comparison might be a different galaxy when it comes to tires.... and engines... and suspension and.... you get the idea.
Last edited by alx; Jan 9, 2014 at 01:07 PM.
Newbie
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GL 450
I don't race cars. I don't go to tracks I'm not sure where you got the idea I did. I was only speaking about passenger car tires until you derailed to the track. but I pointed out that Pirelli is a respected track tire. Hankooks are made in Korea FYI.
Newbie
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GL 450
just the voice of experience.
all new tires will balance sufficiently when new. so most shops (i am sure yours falls in this category based on your lack of knowledge of basic concepts) will balance sufficiently to have a happy (initially) customer.
however, certain tire brands (like pirelli) tend to be out of round more than the others. this is very noticeable when road forcing the tire with a machine like a hunter dsp. out of round will not show on any other "regular" balancing machine but if you have seen enough tires spinning even on a regular machine you will know instantly when one is out of round more than the others.. and pirellis do that a lot. more than any other "expensive" tire.
unfortunately most out of round tires will wear out in a way that will make them very noisy over time. also, depending on how they are some will develop vibrations that cannot be balanced out.
all new tires will balance sufficiently when new. so most shops (i am sure yours falls in this category based on your lack of knowledge of basic concepts) will balance sufficiently to have a happy (initially) customer.
however, certain tire brands (like pirelli) tend to be out of round more than the others. this is very noticeable when road forcing the tire with a machine like a hunter dsp. out of round will not show on any other "regular" balancing machine but if you have seen enough tires spinning even on a regular machine you will know instantly when one is out of round more than the others.. and pirellis do that a lot. more than any other "expensive" tire.
unfortunately most out of round tires will wear out in a way that will make them very noisy over time. also, depending on how they are some will develop vibrations that cannot be balanced out.
