cjf_moraga

WSH: Excellent comments about SF!

My irritation is because Park Assist was/is clearly listed as an inclusive feature in the dealers print out of my vehicles VIN# and associated feature specification - the confirmation of which was the basis of my order... Whether one uses Park Assist or not, it is part of the marketed value proposition of the S-Class... The situation is even more egregious in the case of those MY07 owners who originally had this functionality and have now had it removed when MB updated their COMMAND system.

It is not as if the technology has been de-contented either.. as NJS430 points out it has been reintroduced in the post July 2008 models... and cheaper and with the additional Blind Spot Assist!

There is a point of principle here...

So MB can take refuge behind "MB reserves the right to make changes at any time, without notice to colors, materials, equipments, equipment, specifications, and models", but I am sincerely hoping that MB cherishes it customers in this price range, and will introduce an upgrade option for existing S-Class owner with this functionality... Even my SA is amazed about the current situation... I am waiting, but hoping that the recent COMMAND upgrade for the MY07 cars is a positive precedent/gesture..

Having said that, from what I see/hear I would certainly find Blind Spot Assist a highly useful feature and would definitely like to retroactively fit that if possible...

Chris

WSH

Indeed, Z356

Many of these socialists/populists/communists/whatever don't "get" how real economies function...or how tax revenues are generated....

Thankfully, many of the major tech and financial guys in SiliconValley and SF are car nuts....so despite best anti-car efforts of socialists in SF, the car infrastructure in terms of office parking garages, pkg in front of relevant restaurants, etc is rather good in SF.....if only they would repave the relevant roads btwn Financial District and PacHts, it would be spectacular; am amazed my 20" wheels have held up as well as they have vs SF pavement.....

Def a very polarized place.....even SiliconValley has quite a contingent of confused Prius-driving/G550-flying "environmentalists"....

Happy New Year

Diesel Benz

You mean you had the park assist feature at the instrument cluster but that got lost? IC features should be controlled by SCN, odd if a feature gets lost in a navi updade (was it a navi upgrade?).

Sounds different but perhaps something similar to here:
https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....03&postcount=9

Diesel Benz

I'd like to have a look at the data from your car VIN, what exactly has been coded from the factory (could you post or PM?). I'm afraid the only way to activate this feature, when it does not appear first, is to report the new option code for the factory data base as a retrofit, wait till it is visible, then make sure the car components have the latests SW and then program the new SCN which SDS gets over an internet connection directly from MB. The problem could be that the MB would not accept adding the option code.

NJS430

You're confusing Park Assistance with Parking Guidance. Park Assistance was a set lines on the back-up camera screen that changed as you backed into the space. (don't see how that is any more useful than the fixed lines on the 08 and in the Nav update). Parking Guidance is radar based - it measures the size of the space and guides you into it through a graphic image that replaces the speedometer. You turn the wheel according to the image and the system beeps when you reach each point where you need to turn again.

All post-July 08 build cars have the newer package. Don't know why MBUSA is quiet on the subject - even the 08 manual has no mention of the new features. I bet there are a hundred people out there who don't have a clue why they have a P in the middle of their speedometer that turns blue every so often. Took me two weeks to figure out I had it and I am not your average Mercedes owner - I need to know how everthing works.

Don't know if there is a way to retrofit it to the older cars - but MBUSA should do it for those who want it. I would try writing to Ernst Lieb - seems like a guy who really wants to be #1 - not something he is going to get if people buying the most expensive Mercedes feel cheated.

NJS430

For anyone who tyhink they may have the feature - here are the detailed instructions on how to use it -

Parking Guidance*

Parking Guidance is an electronic parking aid with radar sensors. The radar sensors are used to measure the road on both sides of the vehicle. It indicates suitable parking spaces and provides steering instructions to help you park in the indicated spaces.

Parking Guidance is only an aid, and the indicated parking spaces may not be suitable for parking due to parking prohibitions, or because they are driveways, or because of unsuitable surfaces and so on.
The Parking Guidance display in the instrument cluster is only a symbolic display of the parking space as measured when first driving past it. Later changes to the parking space are not taken into account, e.g. if the vehicle parked in front of or behind the space has changed its position, or if obstacles are moved into the parking space. Moving objects, such as pedestrians and passing vehicles, are not displayed.
Parking Guidance does not relieve you of the responsibility to pay attention. If you rely solely on Parking Guidance, you could cause an accident and injure yourself and others.
You are always responsible for safety and must continue to pay attention to your immediate surroundings when parking and manoeuvring.

Make sure that no persons or animals are in the manoeuvring range. Otherwise, they could be injured.

You must deactivate the radar sensor system in certain countries and near radio telescope facilities. Further information can be found in the index under "Radar sensor system".

Vehicles with COMAND and navigation*: the radar sensor system is automatically deactivated near radio telescope facilities.
If you want Parking Guidance to assist you, the radar sensor system must be activated and operational.

• that are parallel to the direction of travel
• that are on straight roads, not bends
• that are on the same level as the road, i.e. not on the pavement, for example. Parking Guidance may not detect flat kerbs.

• On narrow roads, drive as close to the parking space as possible.
• Parking spaces which are littered, overgrown or in front of trailers might not be identified properly.
• Pay attention to the Park Assist warning messages when using Parking Guidance.
• The position of your vehicle in the parking space after using Parking Guidance depends on the position and shape of the vehicles parked in front and behind, and on the conditions of the space. In some cases, Parking Guidance may guide you too far into a parking space, or not far enough into it. In this case, you should cancel Parking Guidance and correct the vehicle's position.

Detecting parking spaces

Parking Guidance is automatically activated when you are driving forwards. When driving at speeds below 16 km/h, you will see the white parking space symbol as the system display in the instrument cluster. The parking space symbol turns blue as soon as Parking Guidance has detected a parking space.

Detected parking space
1 Detected parking space on the left 2 Parking space symbol 3 Detected parking space on the right

• that are bordered at the back
• that are parallel to the direction of travel
• that are at least 1.5 m wide
• that are at least 1.0 m longer than your vehicle

A parking space is displayed while you are driving past it, and until you are 15 m away from it. Parking Guidance only displays parking spaces on the front-passenger side as standard. Parking spaces on the driver's side are displayed as soon as the turn signal on the driver's side is activated. If you wish to park in a space on the driver's side, the indicator on the driver's side must remain on until the reverse gear is engaged.

Parking

The following instructions refer to parking in a space on the front-passenger side. To park in a space on the driver's side, mirror the instructions.
Parking Guidance will emit a warning tone if it detects an obstacle behind the vehicle while you are parking. Stop immediately. The parking space and the lane begin to flash in the instrument cluster. Make sure that there is no danger before continuing to drive. The display in the instrument cluster stops flashing when Parking Guidance no longer detects an obstacle. You can continue parking.

Parking Guidance is only an aid and may not detect all obstacles. Parking Guidance may not be able to detect objects in corners or on smooth surfaces. Parking Guidance does not relieve you of the responsibility to pay attention.
You are always responsible for safety and must continue to pay attention to your immediate surroundings when parking and manoeuvring. You could otherwise endanger yourself and others.

Stop the vehicle when the blue parking space symbol shows the desired parking space in the instrument cluster.
Engage reverse gear.
The multi-function display shows the message: Check surroundings Confirm with OK.
Press on the multi-function steering wheel to confirm.
The display in the instrument cluster switches to Parking Guidance.


1 Green lane 2 The white bracket marks the target position.
Depending on the distance, you may have to reverse along the lane towards the parking space. This is also represented by a green lane 1 .
Continue reversing until you hear a warning. Stop the vehicle, you have reached the target position indicated by a white bracket 2.

Steering tips
1 The red lane indicates the lane you are on with the steering wheel in its current position.2 The yellow lane indicates the lane you will reach when you have turned the steering wheel in the required direction.
Turn the steering wheel while the vehicle is stationary until red lane 1 and yellow lane 2 overlap.
Lane 2 turns green. If the parking space is inside the area displayed, the end of the green lane is marked with a white bracket and an arrow showing the position you are aiming for.

Driving into a parking space


1 The lane turns green when the steering wheel is turned in the right direction.
Keep the steering wheel in that position and reverse carefully.
Stop as soon as you hear a warning.
The vehicle has reached the position in which you need to countersteer.

Countersteering


1 The red lane indicates the lane you are on with the steering wheel in its current position. 2 The yellow lane indicates the lane you will reach when you have turned the steering wheel in the required direction.
Turn the steering wheel while the vehicle is stationary until red lane 1 and yellow lane 2 overlap.
Lane 2 turns green, and a white arrow and white bracket indicating the target position appear.

Driving to the final position


1 The lane turns green when the steering wheel is turned in the right direction.
Keep the steering wheel turned in that direction and reverse carefully until you have reached the final position.
The multi-function display shows the message: Parking Guidance finished and a warning sounds.
If the rear gap is too small, Park Assist emits an additional warning tone .

Final position

Depending on the size of the parking space, you may now be in an angled position in the parking space. If possible, Parking Guidance will guide you as far back as possible towards the rear limit of the parking space.
Manoeuvre if necessary.
Pay attention to the Park Assist display.

Cancelling Parking Guidance

Press the Park Assist button in the dashboard.
Parking Guidance is cancelled immediately and Park Assist is deactivated. No message appears in the multi-function display.

Parking Guidance is cancelled automatically if it is no longer possible to guide you into the parking space, or if a malfunction occurs.
The parking space symbol goes out and the message Parking Guidance cancelled appears in the multi-function display.
Trailer towing*

Parking Guidance is automatically deactivated if it detects that you are using a trailer tow hitch or have fitted an item such as a bicycle rack on the rear. The parking space symbol does not appear

Diesel Benz

OK, so the owner actually lost the park assist instead of the park guidance? In that case, my post is even more relevant because the reference describes why this would/could happen? How do you explain he lost the feature?

In any case a very useful post on the park guidance feature.

cjf_moraga

The difference between the (deleted) Park Assist and new "Parking Guidance" is an important clarification - thanks... Assuming there are no physical differences in the Distronics Plus hardware in the 1 month between 06/07 vehicles (and before) and 07/07 and after, then any retrofit would appear primarily a software upgrade to COMMAND and not unreasonable? (Blind Spot Assist needs new mirrors and possibly wiring so I can understand that may be harder)

You are correct that MB is extraordinarily quiet about this. As I bought my S600 in September when the 07/07 models were already in manufacture and being distributed, had MB given me the data on which to make my decision that would have impacted the final vehicle I would have purchased/accepted. To that extent I do feel cheated, though I am certainly happy with the S600 as an overall vehicle.

I accept that maufacturers will continue to change specifications etc - that is a risk of any purchase, but "Parking Guidance" (specifically) is obviously a replacement for the "Park Assist" type functionality that has always been sold/marketed as part of the S-Class (certainly S600) value proposition - and to leave customers without this feature at all without explanation - is in effect a de-valuation of our cars functionality by MB without compensation or notice. The price is the same for either a 06/7 to a 07/07 S600 and the current situation for any S550/S600 owner who has already paid money for this area of functionality as advertised is not equitable.

I recall in the situation of MY07 models sold without the Traffic Update, Birds Eye View etc, there was a slight reduction on the sticker price to compensate - and even then MB introduced the COMMAND update for these owners. I am sincerely hoping they will do a similar upgrade in this situation.

I would email/write to Ernst Lieb (mbusa CEO) if anyone knows where to email/write to?

Chris

Z356

Chris: I do think you and all early MY08 owners of any S or CL model have a legitimate complaint. Aside from you and other buyers of the top models with everything as standard (S600, S65, CL600, CL65 - thus it is not a question of what you paid), there are others who recently purchased early MY08 S550s, CL550s, S63s and CL63s that did not get Blind Spot Assist or Parking Guidance, nor received a reduction in the price of the whole Distronics Plus option ($860 retail, which is quite a bit). Unlike you, these buyers did pay more and got less. Same MY08 models...just one month apart in production. As we have found out, the Nav/DVD improvements (birds-eye, traffic, etc) that later '08 production vehicles received where able to be corrected via the telematics upgrade we have talked about on this Forum. The issue of lack of Blind Spot Assist and Parking Guidance seems more complicated and perhaps more difficult to retrofit into cars that were not wired directly for this at the factory. Note that the early $ credit for lack of certain Nav/DVD features affected mostly super early MY08 S63 & CL63 which were brought out in the late Winter/Spring of '07, not a late summer delivery like your MY08 S600. Quite frankly, it would have made more sense for MB to give all early MY08 $ credit for lack of Blind Spot Assist or Parking Guidance (e.g. those with Dist+) and make it known publicly in the window sticker. At least, it would have brought up the topic to your attention. Since you see a 'credit' in the window sticker, it is natural that you ask your dealer while examining your purchase, "Why are they giving me a credit? What features I am missing on this MY08? Maybe I should wait a few weeks/months and get later MY08 production car with all the improved technology & all the new features?". If you are made aware of this and still say: "No, that is not that important to me, I rather have the car now", everyone is covered. You knew. You didn't care. You got compensated for less content. Dealer & MB lawyers are happy everyone got 'fair warning'. However, the way they phased-in Blind Spot Assist and Parking Guidance into production in July '08 without much fanfare is at worse, suspicious and at best, poorly done & executed. It left most of you early 'adopters' (buyers) of an early production MY08 vehicle totally in the dark. You couldn't have known that by waiting a few weeks, you could have gotten more advance features at lesser cost in the same model year production. This whole episode might give now MBUSA executives (and perhaps one or two of their lawyers) pause and a headache or two. That is why I thought it would be an interesting topic for discussion in our Forum. Good luck with you efforts with MBUSA and keep us informed. Z356.

Diesel Benz

Just a question for clarification on the above, the blind spot assist appears to have some HW on the mirrors but what would it be for the parking guidance feature? I must be missing something obvious?

I believe those are separate option codes from the factory too, just put a SCN accordingly and the parking guidance should be there???

Z356

Diesel: Consider the two separate issues, if you will. Issue #1: Parking Guidance on all S/CL vehicles post July '08 production (if that is the case), but missing from early MY08 S and CL vehicles. For MB, issue credit, post it on window sticker and warn/advice customers something is missing and that he/she is being compensated for that loss of content. Issue #2. Those with Distronics Plus (either standard or because it is an option on their S or CL). Same thing. Issue credit, post it on window sticker and warn/advice customer some 'content' is also missing from this early MY08 production vehicle. All potential customers are duly informed. Potential customer is free to pass up on this early MY08 car and wait for later production with the new features. Did I explain myself better? Sorry if I was not clear in my original post. Z356

cjf_moraga

Thanks Z356 - your two summaries describe the situation very well. In my case the dealer presented me with a complete feature specification of the car (which was in the port of LA at the time) in which Park Assist IS listed amongst all the features, and on the basis that the S600 feature list was/is 100% inclusive as advertised I placed an order and the dealer had the vehicle bought up from the port via transporter. However Park Assist is not listed on the window sticker, (which I did not detect on acceptance) though the price is exactly the same as any July build S600, and there is nothing on the sticker (I am reading it now) drawing attention to the fact that this feature is deleted. (Except by its absence) I do recall looking at several early MY08 S63's that had a $999 rebate to compensate for missing features so why was this not pointed out in the case of the S600?

One suspicion is that early MY08 cars may have the older MY07 COMMAND system installed, (the "real" MY08 only being introduced from 07/07) but that they had the COMMAND upgrade applied at the port removing the Park Assist feature?

The core principle remains that Parking Assist/Guidance functionality is explicitly marketed as standard on the S600 for its price and I have not received what others who aquired vehicles shipped a month later did. The Blind Spot Assistance is kind of a separate issue in my mind as that had no precedent in earlier vehicles. (Much as I would like it) Parking assist type functionality (whether Parking Assist or Parking Guidance) has always been sold as part of the w221 S-Class right from its launch and continues to be promoted as a part of the vehicle. (Except if you are an early MY08 owner!)

Anyway all I seek is a clarification of the situation from MB if I can figure out how to talk to them. I have never had cause for a complaint like his before. This is not really a dealer issue and more to do with mbusa corporate - are there any suggested routes to take this?

Chris

Z356

Chris: You expected your MY08 S600 to have 'Park Assist' and it did not. We know that all MY07 S600, for example, have 'Park Assist'. They will continue to have 'Park Assist' unless they take advantage of the Telematics upgrade recently available, in which case the Park Assist feature is removed from your MY07 Comand. All MY08 (other than early S63/CL63 that arrived in winter/spring of '07) do not have 'Park Assist'. My understanding is that the 'elimination' of this feature was done by MB due to complaints from 'over-confident' users and ended up with curb rash on their wheels, etc. We recently learned that even in Switzerland if you upgrade your MY07 S600 to the new '08 telematics (birds-eye, traffic, DVD play) you will lose 'Park Assist', so it is not just limited to us litigation-happy Americans. So this is being done 'on purpose' by MB higher ups for reasons that they have not openly talked about but that we can speculate here in this forum. I think that most MY07 owners might be happily willing to exchange 'Park Assist' for the improved Telematics of the MY08 model. These same MY07 owners would love to have the improved 'Park Guidance', but unfortunately this technology was introduced a model year later. But you have a different...and much better case for complaint.

What I find interesting is that you could/should have had what is apparently a more sophisticated parking technology which MB feels is now superior to the 'old' Park Assist and which they introduced as of July '08 production for the US. This new feature is called 'Park Guidance' and it is radar based. And your MY08 S600 would have had this feature...if only your car would have gone through the production line in Sindelfingen just 4 weeks later or less! In my humble opinion, this is a better case to make to MBUSA. "If the dealer would have told me that 'Park Guidance' would be available shortly...or MB would have posted on the window sticker of the S600 I was about to buy that MB was giving me certain $ credit because my particular early MY08 did not have this feature (e.g. case of early S63/CL63 with new Nav features), I would have passed on it and happily waited four weeks to purchase another later production MY08 S600 with these advanced features". Ditto argument for the new 'Distronics Plus' with Blind Spot Assist. That line of reasoning might get you better results at Montvale. Just a thought. Regards, Z356.

NJS430

He lost the feature when they upgraded his software to the current version (standard on post July 08's) that has static lines on the backup camera. Of course he gained DVD video and a few other nice features. I think the static lines are just as useful as the dynamic lines on the rearview camera. I would guess that Mercedes got rid of them because they were unecessary and confusing.

NJS430

It's a great car with or without the extra features but you make a good point about Park Guidance being only software. Since the sensors are probably the same and the screen wouldn't need updating, this should be an easy install and there is no reason Mercedes shouldn't offer it to you. BSA would require new mirrors and maybe wiring that just isn't there.

Is there anyone out there who has access to the technical data who can verify just what would be needed?

Diesel Benz

I'm not interested how the owners were used (I mean this time), I was just asking isn't this part only SW, and you also concluded the same when responding to cjf. I may not have made my point clear but you too seem to make it unnecessary complicated.

Diesel Benz

When you state "when they upgraded his SW", who do you actually mean? Guys at Sindelfingen or someone at the US side? This is exactly what I've tried to figure out several times already at this thread. The point being that "the update" is likely to go wrong, but MB has instructions to fix it. If anything got lost by and SW update, it should be brought back and there is a guide how to do that.

Now I'm not suffering the loss of features and I want to leave this topic now, just hope everyone can enjoy the car with the features they prefer.

jlee6412

thank you for that very useful post. i took the s600 for a drive in my neighborhood looking to try that out and works perfectly. didnt even know that was an available option, the MB salesman didnt even bother to tell me about that. again thank you for that useful post

cjf_moraga

Just a minor update on this issue. I spoke with my SA today and he was also talking to the factory representative who was well aware of this problem. Seems there may be a new COMMAND update of some sort in the works - at least I got a strong sense that I am not the only one complaining about the loss of Park Assist and that MB is aware they have an issue to deal with here. Will keep the board updated.

Chris

jeffreyy

Chris,

I brought this to the attention of the MBUSA AMG product manager as well. I hope they can see their way clear to helping us out.

J

NJS430

Had the chance to use the Parking Guidance feature more and I must say it's much more than a novelty. As long as you follow the instructions, i.e. stopping when the system beeps and then turning the wheel before starting again, it does a better job then you would without it. The system also displays a blue square that lets you know if you are even with the curb or not. Really well thought out system.

Good luck in getting the update.

Diesel Benz

Just an update on this, EPC now covers the mirror glass part number for blind spot assist. It just took some time to appear. Obviously it must be different from the "normal" mirror.

jeffreyy

Diesel,

Any idea if the radar sensors are different on cars with BSA vs not?

J

Diesel Benz

The part number options appear a bit confusing to me.

First, Blind Spot Assist (234) only appears once in EPC in relation to the bumper radar sensors. This is for the rear in the option combination "229/230/234". Secondly, there are basically two different sensor types only (taking into account current versions only), the same sensor parts are used both in the rear and in the front. My car is using a different sensor from the one above (this car has options 233 and 229). EPC does not have any entry for a case where the car would have all 233, 234 and 229/230 while cars like this must exist. EPC does mention a date range for the two, but not for all car variants. I'm sure you are lost with this analysis, you should see the list really (I don't dare to post it here).

I assume the two different sensor parts are actually interchangeable and as long as it is clear that both are used on a car with 230 + 233, all Distronic Plus cars must have BSA compatible bumper radar sensors. I would be happy to see a second opinion from someone who has had a look at this section of EPC.

The question was about BSA but it looks the same for the Advanced Parking Guide (this is what EPC talks about, the marketing names were mentioned in an earlier post in this thread).

I'd conclude the new features being SW only, except for the rear view indicator glass (and wiring possibly).

Finally if you don't remember the option codes:
233 Distronic Plus
234 Blind Spot Assist
229 Park Assist
230 Advanced Parking Guide

jeffreyy

Diesel,

I agree. From my perspective, I find the blinking mirrors a little distracting anyway. I'd go for just the warning beep if one tries to change lanes. I asked MBUSA to consider a SW update to allow for advanced park guidance and BSA without the mirror lights.

J