OK gang,

Expensive day at the dealership today.

You'll recall that I took the big girl to a road course last weekend and the left front brake caliper turned bright gold. I talked to several people who have either had this happen or known people who had this happen. As far as the color goes---nobody is sure why it changes to the gold color. We all agree that the reason it changes is b/cuz of huge heat retention.

A bit on our brakes: The fronts have a dust shield/protective cover on the inside of the front rotors. This shield prevents air flow from coming through and over the brakes and out the wheels (or somewhere else). Remove these shields if you are going to use your brakes aggressively.

Brake rotors: They crack really easy. They are huge and lovely but not good with the heat. They don't like heat. In fact, they hate heat. Don't cook them b/cuz the design does not allow you to realize when the brakes are fading (you'd normally feel this in the brake pedal getting mushy). The brake system design hides this fact---so you drive them until they catastrophically let go and you'll left with manually doing the two footed no power assist method (according to my mechanic's research). Basically our brake system always and consistanly feels the same way regardless of the heat in the brake system. You get a CAUTION in the HUD, but as I was told (and I did it too) you ignore it and keep driving---why not, the brakes still work right? What you don't know is that there is big damage occuring as the heat has no place to go and the temps keep on rising.

The best bet if you're going to repeatedly put heat on these bad dudes is to get some air flowing in there to remove that heat. Also, you'll need a systematic way to figure out how much heat is in the brakes (because the design---pedal feel-- doesn't tell you this).

I'm sure all your ex-racers guys already now this but I didn't and my intention is to share so someone else can benefit from my expensive lesson.

So I'm in for two new rotors, two caliper rebuilds, new brake fluid, new pads and I'm now just back to stock (which doesn't work well under road racing conditions or aggressive track days).

Having 600+ hp doesn't help either as going faster puts more emphasis on the brakes to do MORE braking, not less. R compound race tires make the matter even worse.

Future plans are to create some air ducts either by removing the fog lights or tailoring a wide and not too tall duct underneath the stock spoiler (fog lights retained) and duct to the brakes.

Since I REALLY like to see the "holy ****" look on the faces of the track dudes in their tuned RX7's and roll caged Mustangs, I will be figuring out how to make this big girl run consistantly at the track AND be a reliable daily driver. This includes New aftermarket brakes, better pads, R compound race tires and air ducts to the brakes. Stay tuned for more info and feel free to offer any intel on air duct solutions and/or aftermarket high end brake packages.

Happy motoring

You can donate to the GidEUP brake fund by sending your check or money order to:

JACK HASS
W. 211 Apt. E 55
Indianapolis, IN

 

I know a guy who can make custom 2 piece rotors. He can do them in slotted, crossdrilled, or solid(best for racing). I can only assume that he can make them in the size for the E55. I do know that they will be rather expensive to make (probably $1500 a set). If you guys are interested I can see if he will make them. There is also the possibility that he can make a kit to make the rotors even larger by relocating the caliper. He would probably need somone with a E55 to visit his shop in Cali to fit it up though. Just some ideas. if you are interested let me know, and I will give him a call. his site is: http://www.thebrakeman.com

 

Hey Gid...I guess it's different for you because of your relationship with the dealer/owner (I mean everyone is pretty friendly to you there)...but was the subject of warranty even brought up like "you know this isn't covered".....Just was real curious as to how you approached it..

Maybe just an assumed thing on both ends huh?

If you don't mind....how much the new brakes/rotors/calips gonna run ya.

Thanks Gid

 

screw the dealership they have to warranty the caliper! and I would think the rotors, as long as your not in a sanctioned race etc they can't deny the claim(well they can try) just because your at track day on a race track they can't deny the claim. now pads etc your screwed but who cares the stock pads suck anyway gotta up grade.

 

I don't see a warranty issue here. Calipers are not bad. Calipers need rebuilt due to excessive heat. Excessive heat due to excessive driving--sort of like a consumable product like tires or oil filters. I'm getting pads b/cuz I know they will be more cooked this weekend and I'll need to start with a full set. Same for rotors--will need a fresh set and I know mine are going to bonk. I think they're cheap--$125 each+/-? A lot less than I expected. Will have the full $ tally soon.

 

Hey Gid nice write up, but at least give me some credit for our discussion OK.

The only error you have is the brakes do not (normal) fail catastrophically. What happens at the track is, as the heat builds, and you are ignoring the brake warning light, the temps continue to rise. Two things can happen, pad fade or fluid fade. If it's pad fade, the pads get too hot, outgas too much, and the coefficient of friction drops. In this case, you do slow down, but not nearly as quickly. Unfortunately, due to the electronic braking, everything feels fine, but it's not.

If you boil fluid, you may have to pump the brakes once or twice in order to get decent stopping. Again, everything will feel fine but it's not.

Here is what happened to me. I was coming to the end of a 20 minute session and was about 5 minutes past the warning light. I came into a turn at about 110 and hit the brakes at my normal braking point, waiting for turn in speed, waiting, waiting, ughhh!! - bail out. I ended up taking a pit exit and was fine. I drove around for another 10 minutes to cool the car/brakes and said I won't track the E55 past the brake warning light anymore. Just too dangerous as you get no brake feel warning like you would in a normal car. Dr. Chill had a similar occurrence.

If you drive the car around for 10 mintes (with minimal braking) after every session, your brakes will not discolor but you will still fry the rotors. Mine were replaced under warranty when I told the tech I would never do whatever did this again (nod nod wink wink).

 

Outstanding information.

I very much appriciate you sharing all of this information as I have made use of much of it and will continue to do so.

Thank You.

--David

 

sounds like some on should invest in some Carbon Ceramic Ventilated 14 Inch Brembos.

 

two options:

1) get some real rotors (2-piece) and some real race pads

2) get a real brembo kit. The factory kit looks nice but really is a street only kit. at the track they cant disipate heat and they cook quickly. A friend lit the brakes of an E320 on fire (W211) and the car now needs 4 pads, rotors, and calipers. SBC is not something you want on a track car. it has no feel and lead to this issue.

maybe instead of a brake temp light MB could have used a 2 piece rotor like that seen in the CLK55 and the 65's. That light seems like the cheap and midless way out.


Using stock parts will only lead to this happening every time u visit a track. But the gold caliper issue never goes away. Brembo reds turn brown, silver calipers always turn gold, and black calipers just start to crack with time. I use a Stoptech equiped car at the track and I am on the second set of calipers because the last set of calipers and hats changed to a nice dark gold.

 

Hey Gid, do you have an instant message program or something I can contact you with?

I think I can get you some money, I am very interested in this. I'd love to make you a site with some simple google ads for you to document everything you do and help fund some of the projects.

 

see if he can make them for our C32s!!!

 

OUR FRIEND COLORCHANGE IS CORRECT. HE WAS A HUGE SOURCE IN SHARING THIS INFO WHICH LED ME TO CONFIRM WITH A FEW OTHER USERS IN THE KNOW/BEEN THERE DONE THAT. (THANKS TO YOU ALL).

 

Uhhhh ... aren't those front rotors around $400/set???


TJC

 

Thanks Gid, glad to help.