ctrider

well after much debate i've finally decided to pull it out. upon doing so my car transitioned faster at higher speeds. so for example if i was cruising at 40 and then wanted to go up to 60, normally there would be a delay before the engine kicked in

....
with the resistor out there was literally no delay and it went right into it. so far no pinging has occured and it seems to be fine. has anyone else pulled this out ? i know there has been much controversy over this, just wondering what others have done, and/or have decided to do it.

Jer

Now that you have done this, the EZL will interpret the open circuit as a fault condition and retard the ignition timing to the max. Now you will suffer poor fuel economy and loss of power. However, I can not imagine how you get more power by doing this.

If you are looking for quick off-the-line response, a Mercedes is the wrong way to go.

mctwin2kman

Sad to say but some people do get better response and some do not. An open circuit is no retard according to the maint CD! 0 Ohm resistance is full retard of 12 degrees. You can order the diferent resistors from MB though to get the correct amount of retard to run Premium fuel though. The resistors differed according to the CD for certain engines at some point in the early 90's before production ended.

No resistor = no retard
2.4Kohm resistor = 2 degree retard
1.3Kohm resistor = 4 degree retard
750 ohm resistor = 6 degree retard
470 ohm resistor = 8 degree retard
220 ohm resistor = 10 degree retard
0 ohm resistor = 12 degree retard


The person who created that table had the 750 Ohm resistor in his 2.6.

ctrider

i don't understand how i will have loss of power if it gets rid of the timing ? what about poor fuel economy? my mileage will be less per gallon ?

mctwin2kman

By what I just posted you should not. These engines do not have knock sensors to retard timing in the event of a knock. It has yet to be seen though if by removing the resitor it actually does anything to give more power. No dyno's to prove either way. Your best bet is to look at the resistor list and pick the 2 degree retard one and order it from your dealer.

E-Klasse

Power comes from compression not higher octane. A good tune up would do more to restore power. Why convert a car that runs on the lowest priced fuel to burn the highest price fuel when gas prices are at an all time high. Unless you up the compression ratio of the engine, it is a waist of money.

mctwin2kman

Hence why I said no one has proven that there was a gain of any kind. I guess you read past that part. The only thing it will do is maybe give you better acceleration, but as stated why do it with todays gas prices. It will only give you a better combustion cycle, if it even gives you that. Since the CIS system along with the vacum advance on the timing normally will correct for any changes. Unless you were to actually buy the correct resistor for the Octane fuel that is being used. Most cases show a decrease in fuel economy and that is about it.

ctrider

i've always used premium gas (93+), on my 190e it says only to use premium, i pay the high gas prices and in the 6 years i've had this car i have used premium, so if i get better acceleration using the same gas that i've always used doesn't it make sense or am i actually ruining the engine ? i'm not trying to fight i just want to know, if i'm getting a better acceleration using this gas should i keep it out ?

mctwin2kman

The stock 2.6 one is the 750 Ohm resistor. So you could have less retard by upping the 1.3 or 2.4 KOhm ones. Most likely you will gain a better throttle response and maybe get your spark at the right time and thus having combustion in the chamber at the right time. Better more efficient combustion will actually produce the best power outpur for the motor. Since you will not be combusting just before or during exhaust valve opening.

Oh and E-Klasse, it is easy to gain more power without changing the compression on an engine. It is done all the time and is called Forced Induction. Not changing the compression ratio at all but forcing more air and fuel into the chamber for more combustion and more power. Combustion is what produces the power not compression ratio or compression. Yes the proper compression ratio is needed and is dificult to change, but put more air in the chamber and more fuel and perfect timing and you yield the best Hp results. Like adding a cold air intake will add a few ponies, not because I changed the engine, but because I am feeding cooler air into the chamber and most likely a little more air due to better flow. Thus more power when I add a hair more fuel. The colder more dense the air the better the combustion and the more power output.

E-Klasse

Last I checked, my 190E was normally aspirated with no blower, turbo or forced induction of any kind. Yes this would add HP but that is a whole other topic. If you force more air in, then you still have to inject more fuel to keep the air fuel ratio optimum for combustion. If you have combustion with low compression you get less power. Combustion just sets it off. Check out deisel engines and their compression ratios. Guess what is causing the combustion there. The whole point of this thread was about retarding the timing so that higher octane fuel could be used and my point is that that is a waist of money.

E-Klasse

What year is your 190E? My owners manual for my 86 sais to use 87 octane. I did hear that some dealerships were just putting stickers on the gas caps or on the fuel doors that said to use premium gas only in an attemp to sell them off as better performance cars. People still think that premium gas is better gas so better cars must have to use premium gas. That is a misconception.

ctrider

1993 2.6 and it says premium only in the dash in the instrument cluster, i can show you a picture, i've always put in premium, so should i keep the resistor out if i'm noticing a difference ?

mctwin2kman

E-Klasse, the pre-1987 190E's had a 8:1 compression ratio and used regular 87 octane fuel. IN 1987 the Compression ratio of the 2.3 was raised to 9:1 and thus Premium fuel was needed. The 16V has always been Premium and so has the 2.6 engine as well. We 1986 guys are lucky because we already have low compression and could turbo rather easily using 6 psi of boost and make one quick car. We have 120Hp and the 1987+ had 130, they also gained 10 ft/lbs as well. Also we do not have the R16 resistor either. And just so you know most diesels compression ratio's are above 22:1 and diesel fuel when compressed that much combusts on its own with no spark needed. Thus no spark plugs. I was simply mentioning the Forced Induction engines because you seem to always say that the only way to change engine HP is to change the Compression Ratio, and I was pointing out that is not the case. With 6 psi of boost by the way we would gaine about 60 Hp on our little 190's. I am in the process of following the EFI conversions going on now at 190Rev's forum. Would be nice to get rid of that CIS system and get the fuel in there more efficiently, better gas mileage and response as well as maybe a few ponies due to more efficient combustion and better air/fuel mix.

claygate

I am not an owner but I was doing research on what sort of modifications and problems people experience with the 190E. I tried to go over to 190revolution.net and noticed that they have exceeded the bandwidth limit already for the month, does anybody communicate via email with those people so that we might find out when their site will be back online? There doesn't seem to be too much information here about adding turbos onto the 190E when I use the search. I hope to join the group soon owning, but for now I am just researching. Thanks!

mctwin2kman

That is the first time in a year I have seen them exceed the limit. I am not sure what is going on over there. But I can't get my damn 190 fix so I am going nutso. Hopefully it is back shortly. There is a nice thread over there of Turbo adding, not to mention swapping out motors to an M104, and threads on upgrading to EFI as well.

MTI

190Revolution.net is experiencing a Denial of Service (DoS) attack. Apparently, someone has a grudge against the forum and is flooding the server with TCP requests that keep other users out. The problem is being addressed.

E-Klasse

That is my point, 8:1 compression = 120hp and 9:1 = 130hp.

Higher compression will cause pre-ignition (example, Deisel engines use high compression for ignition)

Higher Octane fuel ignites slower so that it can be compressed more before it will pre-ignite. You want the spark plug to ignite the fuel and not the compression.

The extra HP is not caused by the octane rating. But the higher octane is required because of the higher compression in the cylinders.

Once again, this subject is not about turbos or a superchargers. I am not making any sugestions about how to add HP to an engine.

mctwin2kman

My point was to answer the Octane Question as to why the post 1987 ones required Premium and not Regular gas! I have no idea why you are still on the Turbo or SC kick! I did make a point that it is not Compression only that determines HP, in that if you add more air and fuel in the mix, or colder more dense air that would also get you a gain of a few ponies. Example being a CAI in this case. Also Making the air/fuel mix move more freely will also add gains, example here being a change in exhaust system. You keep making it seem like the HP figures are etched in stone, but if you were to add a larger Throttle Body as well as improved fuel management, ie. EFI, as well as an exhaust system upgrade, you could achieve more HP.

Also something to note about the pre-1987 and 1987-on is that not only was the compression ratio changed, but the fuel system updated to KE-III instead of KE-II that is in our 190's. I am not sure how much else changed as well to get the power up, but I assume more fuel and air as well as the compression ratio change probably were all that was done. With some sensors changed as well.

But alas the question on the R16 resistor has been answered, and changing the timing could gain you a few ponies but also cause you to need higher grade gas since the spark will be firing later. And also to point out that power is not achieved by compression alone, but also by how good the fuel/air mixture burns as well as how much fuel/air you can squeeze in there to explode.

mctwin2kman

Ah thanks MTI. I was going into withdrawl........

E-Klasse

It was your kick not mine. Like I said, it is not worth it...

mctwin2kman

I was just stating. But then again I think a conversion to EFI is worth it. And I also think converting to a turbo is worth it as well. 6 psi could get me about 50 more Hp and put me right in the same level of performance as a 16V or a 2.6 without needing to find one and spend more money fixing it up, or pay for a nicely running 2.6. I only paid 800 bucks for mine so an added 1.5K or so for the power is worth it. Maybe even less and I could get the parts over time and not dump it all at once. Although if the boys at 190Rev get the EFI down and easy to install then I may just go that route for better performance and fuel economy. Who knows what will happen, but if the engine revs a little better and gets better gas mileage then I guess it is worth it. I may just scrap all plans and buy a C36, who knows.

Maybe I can just pick up a 16V motor or an M103 motor cheap and swap it out. Who can tell, I am just getting the car to finally run good and get better mileage, but still have managed to only spend about 200-300 bucks on parts and did all the labor myself, which is the same as I would do to EFI or Turbo it.

jazz16v

whats up guys does anyone know where i can find those rear winshield spolers.....please get back to me as soon as possible i wnna put one on my 85 190 16v thanks