HELP - GEARBOX SURGE, E320, W211, 2004
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mercedes benz E 320
HELP - GEARBOX SURGE, E320, W211, 2004
Hi, my E320, W211, 2004 model has developed a gearbox surge when cold. When it warms up its fine. This has been ongoing for about 40 000 miles, when I first start out in the morning, there is a surge under low power. As soon as I accelerate it goes away. My car has done 184000 miles. I took it to the Merc dealer who said it needed a new gearbox and torque convertor - cost £3800-00. The gearbox changes fine and is not slipping. This problem only occurs when it is cold. Someone said I should replace the transmission oil and the "transmission control module", cost of module £140-00 plus the oil and gearbox filter. Can any one give me some advise, damned if I want to spend £3800-00 on a new gearbox if its only something minor that needs doing. Had a quote from an independent to overhaul the gearbox with a years warrantee for £1500-00. I have had the car since 104000 miles and have not had any transmission problems other than this fault. I have not had the transmission fluid changed either. Apparently only Merc dealers can replace the transmission control module, as it has to be reset with a star machine after replacement. Help, is it a transmission module and oil change, or is it gearbox overhaul or replacement time.......
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 30
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mercedes benz E 320
surge
The gearbox remains in the correct gear but the "surge" is like the brakes are going on and off, or the engine is cutting out intermittently. It goes away on acceleration and only happens at low RPM. Once warmed up, the problem goes away. It is definitely gearbox related. The gears change normally and it does not slip in gear.
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From: Cali
2003 E500, 2004 S430 w/BT-Puck/Tail
Great article part 1...See figure 5
http://www.sonnax.com/publications/c...shudder-part-i
part 2
http://www.sonnax.com/publications/c...shudder-part-2
http://www.sonnax.com/publications/c...shudder-part-i
part 2
http://www.sonnax.com/publications/c...shudder-part-2
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 30
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mercedes benz E 320
gearbox stall
Right, here we go, I had the gearbox overhauled / reconditioned / rebuilt by a specialist who had it back 3 times under guarantee, cost £1600-00 and its still doing the same....., even had a software up date done by the Merc dealer to try sort it out. New torque convertor fitted as well. Now what do we do? The gearbox man has done over 100 of these boxes, and says he has had problems with 5 of them all relating to the E320, 2004 - 2005 models, the smaller ones E220 are fine, he never have problems with the E220 after a gearbox rebuild, only the 320's. Any suggestions as even the gearbox man is confused now...???
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'04 E320 Wagon
My 2004 E320 Wagon does this, and has 80k miles. Honestly, I haven't given it much consideration - just figured it was something the car did when cold.
What's the long-term effect of just leaving this alone? If it's just sub-optimal fluid flow for the first mile, it might not be that big a deal. I would obviously like to fix the problem, but want to weigh the cost versus benefit.
Does this ultimately lead to early failure, or is it just something that's kind of annoying?
What's the long-term effect of just leaving this alone? If it's just sub-optimal fluid flow for the first mile, it might not be that big a deal. I would obviously like to fix the problem, but want to weigh the cost versus benefit.
Does this ultimately lead to early failure, or is it just something that's kind of annoying?
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Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 30
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mercedes benz E 320
long term effect
Scot, the long term effect is that it slowly gets worse. Mine has done it for 50 000 miles before I eventually decided to do something about it. A car of this style should not have this problem, you would expect this on a skoda or ford fiesta, not a Mercedes Benz. The Merc dealers solution is rip you off and fit a new gearbox for £3800, torque convertor £800 plus their labour £600. Its a money making racket, Mercedes Benz wont admit they cocked up with the 722 gearbox on the E Class. They also say the gearbox oil should be changed at 39000 miles, thereafter never change it again - NOT, the oil should be replaced with filter every 40 000 miles. Another Mercedes Benz failure and blunder....... I am taking it back to the indie on 27 June for a 4th attempt to rectify the fault. I have given them the info posted above from Sonex, which looks like it will hopefully be the final solution if they carryout this modification. Fingers crossed........, I will let you guys know when I get it back. For the record, the indie is "JT Auotmatics" of Erith in Kent UK. They do Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, Ferrari and porche boxes, so they should be able to sort this one out eventually, its only a bloody Merc.....
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Joined: Apr 2008
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W220 S500
I've been having a similar problem with my 722.6 gearbox in my w220 s320cdi (2003).
I have changed the torque converter which improved it but there is still a slight vibration at low revs.
I spoke to the reconditioner and he said that around 2001 mercedes changed the lockup regime so the gearbox locked up at a much lower speeds. This was to help fuel consumption but meant more vibration is transmitted from the engine.
I mentioned the sonnax lockup clutch spring solution and he reckoned that it will result in a loss of lockup completely.
Please let me know how you get on.
Thanks
Adam
I have changed the torque converter which improved it but there is still a slight vibration at low revs.
I spoke to the reconditioner and he said that around 2001 mercedes changed the lockup regime so the gearbox locked up at a much lower speeds. This was to help fuel consumption but meant more vibration is transmitted from the engine.
I mentioned the sonnax lockup clutch spring solution and he reckoned that it will result in a loss of lockup completely.
Please let me know how you get on.
Thanks
Adam
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'04 E320 Wagon
Thanks for the info Brown and Adam. I've got a very limited warranty on my 211, so I'm probably going to take a pass on getting this particular issue fixed. I may come to regret this later on, but I've got a long time ahead of me owning this car so there's always a chance later to get it fixed. Right now, the problem lasts for maybe the first 100 meters and then it's OK.
Of course, it may get worse in the winter but I'll deal with it then if necessary.
Adam, when I read the Sonnax writeup I thought the same thing. Those extra springs could prevent full lockup, which would ultimately be a very bad thing for the transmission. Fluid temps would be higher than necessary, although it's probably OK with regular fluid changes.
One thing I'm curious about (mostly since I just thought of it and won't know until the morning when I try) is whether the same thing is as evident when starting out in comfort mode as opposed to standard? Since comfort starts in 2nd gear, it should be a lot harder to hit lockup at very slow speeds. Do you guys with this problem have the same issue when you hit the C/S button?
I'll try it in the morning, but as they say, anecdote does not equal evidence.
Of course, it may get worse in the winter but I'll deal with it then if necessary.
Adam, when I read the Sonnax writeup I thought the same thing. Those extra springs could prevent full lockup, which would ultimately be a very bad thing for the transmission. Fluid temps would be higher than necessary, although it's probably OK with regular fluid changes.
One thing I'm curious about (mostly since I just thought of it and won't know until the morning when I try) is whether the same thing is as evident when starting out in comfort mode as opposed to standard? Since comfort starts in 2nd gear, it should be a lot harder to hit lockup at very slow speeds. Do you guys with this problem have the same issue when you hit the C/S button?
I'll try it in the morning, but as they say, anecdote does not equal evidence.
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2011
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2006 E320 CDI
Fix found
I purchased a 2006 W211.026 with the 722.6 NAG1 transmission with this same problem. I fixed it by replacing the Torque Converter Control Solenoid, part number A 140 277 04 35 $63. The solenoid is located on the top side of the valve body, you must remove the entire valve body to get to it. The repair sounds intimidating, but it is really not bad at all. IMPORTANT: Reference this YouTube video and it will show you how the entire valve body/electronics unit from the transmission in short order. Without it, you will probably break something (the plastic plug). Once the assembly is off the vehicle, it is just a matter of one T30 torx screw that holds it in its socket. Pull the solenoid straight up and plug the new one in and reassemble. Total time 1.5 hours, the second one you do would only be 30-45 minutes. It is that simple, glad I did it. The transmissions is very smooth, no more tugging.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c7pDR83d_E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c7pDR83d_E
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I purchased a 2006 W211.026 with the 722.6 NAG1 transmission with this same problem. I fixed it by replacing the Torque Converter Control Solenoid, part number A 140 277 04 35 $63. The solenoid is located on the top side of the valve body, you must remove the entire valve body to get to it. The repair sounds intimidating, but it is really not bad at all. IMPORTANT: Reference this YouTube video and it will show you how the entire valve body/electronics unit from the transmission in short order. Without it, you will probably break something (the plastic plug). Once the assembly is off the vehicle, it is just a matter of one T30 torx screw that holds it in its socket. Pull the solenoid straight up and plug the new one in and reassemble. Total time 1.5 hours, the second one you do would only be 30-45 minutes. It is that simple, glad I did it. The transmissions is very smooth, no more tugging.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c7pDR83d_E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c7pDR83d_E
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2010
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E 320
Hi,
I had this exact problem with my previous car the 2004 - E320
and had the similar recommendations to rebuild the gearbox , but I came across an expert who solve it within 10 minutes for free,
i'll try to explain and excuse my weak English please;
the problem is not with the transmission it's dirt that accumulate at the end of air pipe at the junction with the engine, so have the mechanic remove the air filter hod and clean the pipe which located down at this site, I hope this will solve the problem
Best wishes
I had this exact problem with my previous car the 2004 - E320
and had the similar recommendations to rebuild the gearbox , but I came across an expert who solve it within 10 minutes for free,
i'll try to explain and excuse my weak English please;
the problem is not with the transmission it's dirt that accumulate at the end of air pipe at the junction with the engine, so have the mechanic remove the air filter hod and clean the pipe which located down at this site, I hope this will solve the problem
Best wishes
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 250
Likes: 1
From: NJ
2005 E320 CDI
Hi,
I had this exact problem with my previous car the 2004 - E320
and had the similar recommendations to rebuild the gearbox , but I came across an expert who solve it within 10 minutes for free,
i'll try to explain and excuse my weak English please;
the problem is not with the transmission it's dirt that accumulate at the end of air pipe at the junction with the engine, so have the mechanic remove the air filter hod and clean the pipe which located down at this site, I hope this will solve the problem
Best wishes
I had this exact problem with my previous car the 2004 - E320
and had the similar recommendations to rebuild the gearbox , but I came across an expert who solve it within 10 minutes for free,
i'll try to explain and excuse my weak English please;
the problem is not with the transmission it's dirt that accumulate at the end of air pipe at the junction with the engine, so have the mechanic remove the air filter hod and clean the pipe which located down at this site, I hope this will solve the problem
Best wishes
My E320 CDI does not have the same set up, all the pipes are clean , I still have the issue.
I may try that sensor that was suggested on this thread before.
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CLK320
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 250
Likes: 1
From: NJ
2005 E320 CDI
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CLK320
more info...
email chain...
Hey Greg,
I would say initially it was 90% better, now after some 20,000+ miles, it is 75% better. I now firmly believe it is totally valve body wear. I will replace the valve body once it gets worse.
Thanks for the reply.
Yes, I agree. I just spoke with a few local MB mechanics(ind), one who used to work for the MB dealer said a lot of people came in with the cold weather torque converter lock up issue. MB ended up replacing a lot of valve bodies.
I then called the MB dealer and spoke to them about it.... it's like pulling teeth to get info, they just want you to come in a start with the diagnostic. Ultimately they said they take the pan off, replace whole valve body, filter and fluids. ~$1000. Researching for a friend of mine who has a 1999 MB CLK320 Coupe. I assume it's a 722.6 tranny based on what I have read.
Thanks again.
Originally Posted by eddie1223us
Originally Posted by wschubbe
Originally Posted by eddie1223us
Saw your post. are you still having success with the 722 tranny during cold weather? No more Torque Converter lockups?
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...11-2004-a.html
Thanks, Greg
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...11-2004-a.html
Thanks, Greg
I would say initially it was 90% better, now after some 20,000+ miles, it is 75% better. I now firmly believe it is totally valve body wear. I will replace the valve body once it gets worse.
Thanks for the reply.
Yes, I agree. I just spoke with a few local MB mechanics(ind), one who used to work for the MB dealer said a lot of people came in with the cold weather torque converter lock up issue. MB ended up replacing a lot of valve bodies.
I then called the MB dealer and spoke to them about it.... it's like pulling teeth to get info, they just want you to come in a start with the diagnostic. Ultimately they said they take the pan off, replace whole valve body, filter and fluids. ~$1000. Researching for a friend of mine who has a 1999 MB CLK320 Coupe. I assume it's a 722.6 tranny based on what I have read.
Thanks again.
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 6
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2006 E320 CDI
Valve Body
If you are handy at all, replacing the valve body on this transmission is a piece of cake. The first time I had it off for the solenoid work it took about 2 hours and only because I wanted to be methodical and not mess anything up. The second time around, it is easily 1 to 1.5 hours.
Bill
PS on edit. I believe the valve body runs somewhere in the ~$700-750 ranges, so some savings potential there if you are willing to get dirty.
Bill
PS on edit. I believe the valve body runs somewhere in the ~$700-750 ranges, so some savings potential there if you are willing to get dirty.
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4
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CLK320
If you are handy at all, replacing the valve body on this transmission is a piece of cake. The first time I had it off for the solenoid work it took about 2 hours and only because I wanted to be methodical and not mess anything up. The second time around, it is easily 1 to 1.5 hours.
Bill
PS on edit. I believe the valve body runs somewhere in the ~$700-750 ranges, so some savings potential there if you are willing to get dirty.
Bill
PS on edit. I believe the valve body runs somewhere in the ~$700-750 ranges, so some savings potential there if you are willing to get dirty.
1) drain tranny fluid
2) disconnect connector that connects to valve body, drain pan, drop
3) remove valve body T30 bolts. replace with new torque to 71 in/lbs
4) new filter, gasket, fluid. need dip stick(or flex wire) and new locking cap too.
good video in your previous post.
Greg
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,254
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From: Louisiana
03 E500 and Corvette
Surging doesn't have to be a transmission issue. It could just be a lean fuel misture causing surge on the engine. This was common years ago with carbs and manual chokes. Mine has surged since new but if you accelerate a little faster the surging stops. Mine still surges cold and when it does I just speed enough to make a shift point then all is well. 125,000 miles and still going, but I did a tranny service at 80,000
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Joined: Nov 2012
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CLK320
Surging doesn't have to be a transmission issue. It could just be a lean fuel misture causing surge on the engine. This was common years ago with carbs and manual chokes. Mine has surged since new but if you accelerate a little faster the surging stops. Mine still surges cold and when it does I just speed enough to make a shift point then all is well. 125,000 miles and still going, but I did a tranny service at 80,000
yes, a lean condition would cause a surge too. I'm fairly confident that most of us on this thread are dealing with the torque converter lockup issue that is tranny related to the 722 valve body. it's almost like driving a manual and coming to a stop without pushing in the clutch.
fyi, I have had the whole FI system cleaned as well. no codes.
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Northern Ireland
S320 CDi 2005
S320 CDi rev "searching" and rumbling issue solved by solenoid replacement
I purchased a 2006 W211.026 with the 722.6 NAG1 transmission with this same problem. I fixed it by replacing the Torque Converter Control Solenoid, part number A 140 277 04 35 $63. The solenoid is located on the top side of the valve body, you must remove the entire valve body to get to it. The repair sounds intimidating, but it is really not bad at all. IMPORTANT: Reference this YouTube video and it will show you how the entire valve body/electronics unit from the transmission in short order. Without it, you will probably break something (the plastic plug). Once the assembly is off the vehicle, it is just a matter of one T30 torx screw that holds it in its socket. Pull the solenoid straight up and plug the new one in and reassemble. Total time 1.5 hours, the second one you do would only be 30-45 minutes. It is that simple, glad I did it. The transmissions is very smooth, no more tugging.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c7pDR83d_E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c7pDR83d_E
Ordered the Torque Converter Control Solenoid, part number A 140 277 04 35
as described by wschubbe above and replaced it with the help of his link to the YouTube video.
Also did a filter and ATF replacement. Cleaned the gearbox sump with brake cleaner till spotless.
Car now runs exactly as it should. Delighted.
Thanks wschubbe.
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1
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2004 E320 CDI Avantgarde Estate / 1984 Leyland National 2
Scot, the long term effect is that it slowly gets worse. Mine has done it for 50 000 miles before I eventually decided to do something about it. A car of this style should not have this problem, you would expect this on a skoda or ford fiesta, not a Mercedes Benz. The Merc dealers solution is rip you off and fit a new gearbox for £3800, torque convertor £800 plus their labour £600. Its a money making racket, Mercedes Benz wont admit they cocked up with the 722 gearbox on the E Class. They also say the gearbox oil should be changed at 39000 miles, thereafter never change it again - NOT, the oil should be replaced with filter every 40 000 miles. Another Mercedes Benz failure and blunder....... I am taking it back to the indie on 27 June for a 4th attempt to rectify the fault. I have given them the info posted above from Sonex, which looks like it will hopefully be the final solution if they carryout this modification. Fingers crossed........, I will let you guys know when I get it back. For the record, the indie is "JT Auotmatics" of Erith in Kent UK. They do Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, Ferrari and porche boxes, so they should be able to sort this one out eventually, its only a bloody Merc.....
The surging is annoying to say the least and this posting has given me some hope.
Thanks in advance
Richard
