JBeans

My dealer is offering a winter tire package for my vehicle - Pirelli W210 Sottozero 225/45R17 91H (MO) TL with rims. I have a few questions and would greatly appreciate it if you can help out:

(1) My OEM is R18 for my all season tires (staggered). Would R17 for all 4 tires be adequate or do I need R18?

(2) Would I need TPMS installed in the winter tires?

(3) Can someone explain what the "MO" & "TL" mean (see attached chart)?

Thank you in advance.

Sportstick

1) 17 is preferred for winter tires, as narrow as possible. The smallest contact patch results in greatest downward force, and best traction.

2) TPMS is not required, but highly advisable. With wintertime temp drops, and associated reduction in tire pressure, it is helpful to have the warning. Further, in the absence, you will have an error message all winter long.

3) Sorry, don't know.

4) Those are fair, but not great winter tires. They are in an odd category known as "performance winter". My theory is that in the winter, the best snow performance is needed, not a worst-of-both-worlds attempt at a blend. I would look for "studless winter" which are much better at snow and ice, although not as strong on "performance". I suggest Blizzak WS70. You can order a package from tirerack.com, tires mounted/balanced on wheels, with TPMS installed, and shipped directly to an approved installer near you. It's then just a matter of lift the car and work the lug nuts and you're done.

global33

How much is your dealer asking for the winter package? The Pirellis are last season's package (with 16 spoke MB wheels), the current ones are here:
http://www.mbwheelandtire.com/wheel-...s-and-coupes/c

Sportstick

Still a suboptimal tire. If it must be Continental for some reason, the ExtremeWinterContact is the more desirable model.

OliverU

3) MO is the code tire manufactures designate for versions of their models made for Mercedes. Tires are specd slightly differently for each car brand.

JBeans

Hi Sportstick,

Thank you very much for your useful info.

I've seen your responses previously to other users and have always valued your opinion. And now, thank you for responding to a question of my own.

JBeans

Hi global33,

Sorry I didn't indicate my location earlier on, but now I have updated my profile.

I'm from Toronto, Ontario. My local dealer quoted me CDN $2472 + tax. It's higher than the ones I see from you link for U.S. customers. It appears to be the only package they offer for my vehicle at the moment.

JBeans

Hi OliverU,

Thank you for your information.

Norm01

We do not use TPMS sensors in Canada.

Norm01

I bought some decent Replika R121 aluminum 17" wheels for about $150 each. Add your choice of tires and you still have lots of cash left in your pockets.

Sportstick

WOW!!

This has got to be a better starting point, even with shipping and taxes!?!?
They don't list the Canada only 350 4MATIC, so it shows 300 4MATIC, but that does not matter for this application. Worst case, find one of their local installers in Buffalo/Niagara Falls who also has customer storage to save on international shipping and your higher tax rate. Swap out your tires on a nice drive for some great authentic chicken wings twice a year and drive home smiling!

http://www.tirerack.com/snow/preferredpackages.jsp

http://www.tirerack.com/cart/Holding...esMounted=tpms

Sportstick

Right, sorry, forgot that...on the tirerack link, take a couple of hundred off when you delete the TPMS. Your cars have sensors in the ABS system which measure the speed of wheel rotation to derive the pressure differences. So, you're closer to about one thousand, USD.

Sportstick

Got me curious, so I used my in-laws' postal code in Kitchener, which should cost about the same as nearby Toronto, and it's still a good deal with taxes and shipping, minus the TPMS. With today's exchange rate, it's about $1616 CDN.

https://www.tirerack.com/cart/SelectShipping.jsp

GateKeeper

you can also use 16" tires and rims, and save yourself a load of cash, if you wish, don't look as nice as the oem rims, but hey it was for winter, not for looks.....

by the way, I have the rims up for sale, I got rid of the car, the tires went to another vehicle, and rims are just sitting in the garage

Sportstick

Using 16" wheels and 215/55-16 tires is a great idea if it fits with the brakes on a 350. It will actually improve your snow tire performance, as the same weight car is now riding on a smaller contact patch, so traction improves further than with a wider 225 series. If you guys can make a good deal on the wheels considering what new ones cost, this is a WIN-WIN for both of you. Then just have the Blizzaks shipped from tirerack to a local installer, bring the used rims, and you'll be set.

GateKeeper

The proof is in the pictures above,,,,look at the 3rd picture, that is the front,,,,the setup is on a C350, 2009 model, and it has the AMG package, this was with the bigger front brakes, and the 16" rims cleared with no problems, be careful of offsets, so your not sticking out too far or in, you could end up rubbing the fenders....

I had no issues with this setup at all, I almost looked forward to the snowfall.....LOL

Sportstick

Should work well....I tried to figure out if that was a 350 or a lower level model, but could not tell.

GateKeeper

no worries......here she is in her summer shoes....LOL

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kevink2

Rather than 215/55/16 97V snows, you could make a big "snow machine" improvement by using the oem canada tire size 205/55/16 91H, that closely matches the standard 225/45/17 front tires.

But it's still amazing 16's fit on a 2009 C350 W204 model. The US spec for 2009 front rotor dia is 11.6" for C300's, and 13.4" for C350's.

I called TireRack about 16's for a 2008 C300, and they flatly said 16's will not fit. I ordered one anyways (for a spare) and it fit, but only had .21" clearance to the outer caliper surface.

Could be the C350 uses an ultra slim caliper to offset the .9" greater disc radius, vs a C300. As Sportstick said, could also be a special Canadian vs of the C350.

Could also be a 16" wheel with at least 20mm less offest, to move the smallest wheel ID (near the spokes) out and away from the caliper. Bottom line, all 16" wheels will not fit.

GateKeeper, what wheels are those (early Mercedes?), and what is the width and offset? ... thanx

.

RLE

The German magazine Auto Motor und Sport has just published their annual winter tire test in the September 22 issue. The test car was a VW Passat and the tire size was 205/55-16. They test each tire in eleven categories and assign a point value to each one. After summing them up for each tire, here are the results. Some of these tires are not sold in N. America including the perennial first place finisher.

They take a truckload of mounted tires and a test car somewhere high in the Alps each year to find plenty of snow.

1. Goodyear Ultra Grip 8
2. Continental Winter Contact TS-830
3. Michelin Pilot Alpin 4
4. Nokian WR D3
5. Dunlop Winter Sport D4
6. Vredestein Snow Trac 3
7. Pirelli Snow Control 3
8. Toyo Snow Prox S953
9. Sava Eskimo HP
10. Fulda Kristall HP
11. Bridgestone Blizzak LM 32
12. Apollo Acelere Winter
13. Falken Euro Winter HS 439
14. GT Radial Champiro WinterPro

Sportstick

Thanks for that info....interesting. I looked for a couple of these, but not all. It seems they have used the "performance winter" category of tires instead of the more snow/ice-aggressive "studless winter". Perhaps the Germans are more insistent on not sacrificing the performance aspect of their tires, but for the few months of winter, I think performance can easily be sacrificed for the greatest snow and ice traction. Even though I am a fan of Blizzak WS tires, I would not take their LM tire under any circumstances. That entire category makes little sense to me.

GateKeeper

Rims were purchased at a local shop here in Canada, near GTA, the most I can give you is what is says on the invoice

5-112 16x7 ET40 T504 HP (Bright Silver)

and yes there is not a lot of clearance between rim and caliper, but there is as you can see in pic3



They are just an alloy rim, the center cap has the MB Logo, but it can be anything you wanted

I don't think there is a US vs Canadian version, I am sure all the parts would be similar, options not so much, but changing break calipers don't seem cost effective

If needed I can get more info, from the place I purchased them from if need be, there are other numbers and such stamped on the backside of the rim as well

kevink2

Thank for the reply. and the numbers. ET40 is just slightly less offset vs the ET47mm oem 16", and front 17". 16x7 is identical to the MB oem 16" wheel. Please verify with numbers on back side of rim.

What stands out in the pic is the location, between outer rim edges, of the "tire mounting recess" which is the location where the main, 16" cylindrical wheel part has the smallest ID, at the recess, as I had previously posted.

I have 2 different 16" wheels in house, and both had the smallest wheel ID near the outer bead (just inboard of the spokes). The 16x7x46mm "spare tire-wheel" from TireRack for the 2008 C300, was the same way, with .2" clearance from that small ID to the Caliper.

Your wheel seems to have that wheel "dip" further in, almost beyond where the caliper sits. It would really help if you can get some pics of the wheel w/o tires, at diff angles, to show the dip from 16" location. I now think there is another type of wheel with the dip/recess at the inboard side, vs the outboard side.

IAlso, if possible, get a rough esimate of the disc dia, vs my stated 13.4"

"Learn something every day" thanx GateKeeper

.

GateKeeper

So here are some more pictures of the rims and all their markings, I cannot get you any sizing on the disc dia, I don't have the car anymore, it was a lease and it was taken back, I picked up the ML350

If you cannot make anything out, let me know, I will type up the numbers in a post instead, hopefully this helps you out...

kevink2

Thanks for all the pic's! Definately 16" x 7". Some spokes suggest this cast rim can be drilled for 4 or 5 studs, with different bolt circles. For the 5 bolt circles listed, the wheel load rating is 690kg, or and even loaded 5,500 lb car. I suspect the one spoke you did not shoot had the wheel offset info, ie ET40mm.

The rim shape is not unusual, as I had wrongly suggested

I think those are light, oem MB rims. The caliper is right at the tightest fit location along the wheel ... it seems this is a common feature for most 1-piece aluminum wheels. I can only assume the C350 has a more compact caliper design vs the C300, that offsets the larger diameter rim.

Thanks again for the pics.

.