Richard

Hi

In Europe we have Nokia 6310i as integrated phone now - this is a tri-band GSM phone, so will work on the US GSM networks that operate at 1900mhz (the ones where you get a little sim card for the phone). Any Nokia 6310i will work, not a special MB modified one (you v4.07 s/w onward, do *#0000# to check)

To retrofit or upgrade this to your car, INCLUDING US cars, you need :-


Wiring loom - depends on car, not needed on US cars (pre-wired), or on cars with existing Nokia 6150 installation.

Control Unit A203 820 25 85 (do not buy 203 820 99 26 as it wont work with 6310/6310i)
Resistive/DC filter A203 820 55 15
E-Net compensator (GSM1800 booster), A203 820 39 26

The resistive dc filter goes on the aerial cable (phone side) before the compensator. You dont need the compensator if you are not going to use GSM1800. If you are in the US, you can either ignore the compensator (and connect the aerial wires together via the restive dc filter). you should really get a GSM1900 compensator from your MB dealer and make the appropriate power connections to it, but it doesnt make a big difference- If you are in Europe and only use GSM900 then dont need the compensator either)

Then you need the cradle. Your dealer should be able to find the parts, but for instance: -

C (W203) with phone in center console glovebox :-

Bracket A203 820 06 51
Clip A203 823 00 60
Cover A203 823 03 49 (covers cables)
2*Screws A140 990 06 22
Cable (probably not needed for USA) - see dealer

funky102

Hey Richard,

I checked both part numbers for the Control Unit and they both don't exist. I assume its not in stock yet as its too early. I'll wait it out until more people attempt at it.

I was reading about the 6310i and the nokia website said "And with its built-in Bluetooth, you can connect with a compatible PC, headset or car kit without any cables." Do you think MB will make a kit where a cradle isn't needed anymore and the phone can connect to the car even if its in your pocket? If theyr'e able to do that then that feature/option would rank up there with the keyless go.

mmgrad

funky102: that sounds like the way to go. i can't wait until MB goes that route.

Richard

Hi,

The parts number is definetly 203 820 25 85 - I bought one a few weeks ago (and just looked at it to check).
The 99 26 part has been around for over a year ...

I suspect your US dealer doesnt know how to request parts that havent been sold in the US before ...

- As to fully integrated blue tooth stuff, ive seen evidence that its planned for the new E class, so I presume will role out with the COMAND-II system at some point. I doubt they'll ever bother to develop it for the current range of head-units since they are doing a technology shift from D2B fibre optic interconnect between all the bits of the stereo to MOST (a completely different system)

Cheers
R

rgleason

I purchased a magazine entitled, Mercedes enthusiast (September 2002), and sent an email to a parts dealer in Berlin, Germany, Speed Autotiele asking for prices on parts that Richard listed in the above email. Those prices are as follows (and I assume that the commas should actually be periods):

Control Unit A203 820 25 85 >> 213,20
Resistive/DC filter A203 820 55 15 >> 10,50
E-Net compensator (GSM1800 booster), A203 820 39 26 >> 212,10
Nokia 6310 cradle for a C240 2002 (they didn't provide a price or a part number, Richard, do you know what the part number is and approximately how much it should cost?)
Bracket A203 820 06 51 >> 108,60
Clip A203 823 00 60 >> 0,90
Cover A203 823 03 49 (covers cables) >> 1,00
2*Screws A140 990 06 22 0,20
Cable (probably not needed for USA because Mercedes are pre-wired here)
Richard, do you know what the part number is and approximately how much it should cost?) It is possible that the price included for the Bracket should have been for the cradle(?). Seems like a lot of money for a bracket, doesn't it?

Minus the phone cradle and the phone, the total cost in US dollars of the parts is $546.50.

I have no idea what kind of discount, if any, that those prices reflect, however, installing the European parts would appear to be far more cost effective than the Mercedes V60 integrated phone system. Richard, do those prices compare with what you know them to be?

Thanks!

Richard

Hi

The bracket is the cradle. Sorry, my original posting should have called it cradle not bracket !

That pricing looks good compared to UK pricing - I imagine it is in Euros, which puts it below UK pricing. (but euros almost same as dollars)

If i were you, Im not convinced I'd buy the GSM1800 booster, because it probably wont make a good job of boosting GSM1900.
- Id try and get the GSM1900 booster used on US sets and make up the wiring adapter. The booster has aerial-in aerial-out (and you'll need some converter plugs), and a +, - and switch-on feed.

I expect you'll actually find it works fine without the booster, ie with just the filter in-line

Cheers

R

rgleason

The parts quoted by the parts dealer (Speed8467@aol.com) were quoted in US dollars. That translates into 350.793 GBP.

Richard, if I purchase all of the parts listed above, install them in the trunk, and in the center console (with a 6310 with say a Cingular Wireless SIM card), will I have a working phone system? Or does a Mercedes dealer need to do specific software modifications so that the phone system will work? Also, suppose I also wanted to have voice recognition, or what I think you call, Linguatronic installed in my car. If I order the part numbers listed on your web page -- http://www.ibex.co.uk/mbstuff/Adding%20Linguatronic.htm -- is all I need to do is have those parts installed (I'd probably want a different part number than 220 820 77 26 1 which you say is "...for UK English) and I would be "good to go?"

Thanks.

Richard

Hi

You will need to make sure that the D2B loop is correctly configured (which may mean moving some fibre optic cables around)(or adding a short section of fibre and a connector)

After that It should just work, although at some point you should get the dealer to tell the COMAND that it has the phone. (otherwise comand builds up errors over time, and may do odd stuff)

(I suggest you open up the compartment under the trunk carpet, and takes some photos and put them here) Look for the D2B cable, and see if there are any spare connectors around there. If not, you will need to get a short section of fibre and the connector - i'll find out the part numbers for you) Also, you should find a 25 way D-Type, and the two coax cables for the aerial.
(parallel ports on PCs are 25 way D-type) (car is female, cant remember about a PC)

Im pretty sure thats all the parts you need for the C class, you may be short of screws etc, but I guess thats easy to buy locally.
(in fact even the fibre stuff you can order from your local dealer)

As for voice recognition, you should just buy the kit from the US dealer. I dont know where the control unit goes, I suspect near the phone unit, and it plugs in with a 15 way d-type, and the fibre optics. Also, you then just plug the lever into the hole oposite the cruise lever on your dash.
- Again, the dealer should tell the stereo it exists sometime.

The VR can be used without the phone installed, then you get to do radio things via voice only. Buying the VR kit will show you all the pieces of fibre etc you may need to get extra ones for !

Cheers

Richard

funky102

I feel like a group buy coming up. Anyone else interested?

rgleason

Correction regarding the $546.50 price excluding the cradle and phone. Richard informs us that the bracket is the phone cradle so it appears that the only other expense would be for the Nokia 6310 phone, and the Voice Recognition if you want it.

Question, does doing a group buy necessarily give you a better price? If it does, and people want to explore it, I'll be happy to explore the possibility with the people at the German parts dealership. I'd like to communicate first with someone that has done a group buy before, however, so that I have a paradigm to follow.

Dick

funky102

In theory, if there are more people buying together then we have more negotiating power in lowering the price of the item. The other board has a group buy forum and you can see how it works.

Richard, is MB going to release other versions of phones that can integrate with the COMAND. The 6310i is OK-looking but there are may better phones, like the present 8800 series and the 8900 series coming out, that I'd like to be able to use. If the other versions come out, would the technology allow us to just switch the cradle/bracket and the phone and have everything still working perfectly. Thanks....

Attached is the pic of the phone, "coolness factor" is up there....

Richard

I think the 6310i will be the last with the current COMAND.

Why ?

1) COMAND II is coming, it uses a completely different fibre ring technology (MOST not D2B), so no point in making new control modules for old technology.
2) The 51xx/61xx/62xx/63xx/92xx are the only phones with the full data connector on the bottom - without that they cant integrate unless they use bluetooth
3) I beleive a bluetooth interface is coming, but only for the new MOST kit.

Cheers
R

rgleason

I will appreciate your providing information about the following: "...see if there are any spare connectors around there. If not, you will need to get a short section of fibre and the connector - i'll find out the part numbers for you."

Richard, why is it that in the US cars, the integration with steering wheel controls and all is done through the software in the phone, and that doesn't seem to be necessary with European cars. Is that integration done with the Control Unit (A203 820 25 85) or what?

Dick

Richard

The D2B system is a single fibre ring that goes
HeadUnit->AMP-CD-Changer->Phone->VCS->Headunit

Ie, each item on the ring has an input and output fibre.


US cars are pre-wired, ie the difficult fibre runs are already installed, but some peices wont be used, so are not installed in the loop. All the connectors clip open and let you move the fibre. For instance, on your C class (from the photo you sent me) there is a connector in the trunk control module box. The other end of those fibres are not in the loop, (or the loop would be broken)

If you need to insert something in the loop that will be installed right next to something else, the easiest way is to open up the connector that is on that something else, get a spare connector, and move one fibre to the new connector and put in a new section of fibre between new and old connectors.

The fibre loop is designed to the D2B standard, an indepednent standard that anyone can make stuff to, and it should work with all other D2B kit. D2B is used in Mercedes, and in Jaguar, and probably others

Quote:

Richard, why is it that in the US cars, the integration with steering wheel controls and all is done through the software in the phone, and that doesn't seem to be necessary with European cars. Is that integration done with the Control Unit (A203 820 25 85) or what?
Dick

Thats not quite right. The technology is identical between US and EU cars , except that US cars have the phone and VCS wiring (copper and fibre) already installed. In EU phones are only factory fitted.
<P>
The steering wheel controls talk to the COMAND unit, the COMAND unit then instructs the phone-control-module (known as phone support electronics or PSE in the US, which is silly because another control unit is also called a PSE). The phone control module then talks to the phone.
<P>
The phone control module is made by the phone manafacturer (motorola in USA, Nokia in EU).
<P>
In the USA they decided to make only MB badged phones work with their controller.
<P>
In Europe they are less protective, and a nokia bought anywhere (as long as it has newish software) will work.

rgleason

Is that "ring" created by the input of one fibre into a unit -- a CD for example -- and the output through the other fibre in the connector? For example, if you have a D2B fibre connector, and we call each fibre in the connector 1 and 2. If 1 is the input that feeds into a unit (phone, CD or whatever), then 2 is the output coming out of the unit. That unit is a subsection of the ring. If you then have the output return to say, the head unit, by feeding it back to the input on the head unit, connector #1. Connector #2, which is the output, feeds the input of the unit that I began the discussion with, right? If I'm at least symbolically correct, see my comments under your discussion of inserting something in the loop.


Here is where I get confused. Are you saying that when you need to insert something in the loop, you simply have to move say the output cable fibre from the something else to the input fibre on the unit you're inserting (or do you connect it to the output fibre, and then what do you do with the remaining fibre on the unit you insert?) It seems like you would have an output fibre that you would have to tie in somehow. Where would you tie it in?

Note: I am hoping that this isn't one of those cases where I think I have made myself clear, but haven't. This stuff is all new to me, so if I have been unclear, I apologize.

Dick

Richard

Yes



What I am saying is that the connector you see in the boot for the VCS (which has 2 fibres in it) is not in the loop at all - I dont know where the other end of those fibres are [I suspect at the head unit]

Therefore, you would unplug the output fibre from the head unit [which is the input fibre to something else]. Plug in the input fibre to the new thing into the head-unit. Then connect the output fibre from the new thing to the one you originally removed from the headunit.
There is a special connector piece for connecting an output and input fibre together. [one of which will have a red connector on it and one a white connector on it]

peralex

Does it all mean that I can purchase above mentioned parts and integrate Nokia 6310i into my ML500 2002? Even despite difference between MCS in USA and Command in EU? Have somebody done that? Thanks

rgleason

Thanks, Richard. It took a while to sink in, but I understand what you are saying.

On that matter of price to install a Nokia phone in a US car, I've got prices on MOST of the parts I think are needed. See below:

Control Unit A203 820 25 85 >> 213.20
Resistive/DC filter A203 820 55 15 >> 10.50
E-Net compensator (GSM1800 booster), A203 820 39 26 >> 212,10 (Richard, you told me that this would probably not be necessary and that it would be better to see if a GSM 1900 compensator can be obtained from a US dealer. Since they are selling TDMA and CDMA phones, however, it is unclear to me whether or why they would carry this)
Bracket A203 820 06 51 >> 108.60 (Nokia 6310 cradle)
Clip A203 823 00 60 >> 0.90
Cover A203 823 03 49 (covers cables) >> 1.00
2*Screws A140 990 06 22 0.20
Total: $546.50 with E-Net Compensator
$334.40 without E-Net Compensator


I got these prices from Speed Autoteile in Berlin, Germany, and did ask about group pricing. Uwe from that organization sent me the following information yesterday expressing an interest in doing group pricing.

"We are very interested in group buying - we are doing this in Japan for many years and it worked out fine." Then he gave me a discount on the above prices to motivate me to explore this with others.

Now, I have a question for Richard. I was able to "dig up" installation instructions for a 2001 Timeport system. There are a number of parts that are in those instructions that are not included in the list of parts you said are needed above. For example, it appears that the following would also be necessary:

Cable, PSE/compensator
Antenna switch
Bracket, PSE/compensator/antenna switch
Cable, coil-cord (?)

And then in the instructions, step 4, they write: "Connect the 25-pole female side of the telephone Y-cable to the PSE and gently hand-tighten the retaining screws." Should that Y-cable be pre-exsiting in a pre-wired US car or is that another part, other than the ones above, that would have to be purchased?

I guess what I'm asking is what else, other than the parts that Uwe priced for me, do I need to do this phone install? I very much appreciate your assistance, Richard. And I very much want to get this phone installed. If I am able to do so, there would apprear to be great value to many other MBWORLD members in being able to duplicate that install.

As I compute it, without a voice control system (which I've seen priced on Autoclass.net for $425) or the compensator, someone could potentially get the electronics for a phone system for $334.40. This is compared to $1,000 + or - that it would cost to purchase the US electronics. Note, there may be some additional costs, e.g., if you have to buy brackets and a GSM 1900 compensator, but even so, this seems to be a far more reasonable price.

Richard

Hello.
I think it is unclear about the 1900mhz compensator, so why dont you leave it out and see how well the system works. I know people here who have left it out and 1800mhz works fine
(I guess the signal is slightly weaker then it could be) - it is not called a booster or amp, just a compensator (ie a very very small amp that compensates for the length of the cable). Im still of the opinion an 1800mhz compensator wont help you on 1900mhz

The Y cable is the adapter between the standard MB car wiring and the Motorola phone support electronics. I.E you dont need it for the nokia.

I think the first is the Y cable you dont need.
I dont know what the second is for on the C class, I thought you only did that on a R129 SL where there is a shared phone aerial. Unless of course its a splitter that allows both teleaid and phone to use the phone.

The bracket may well be needed. Does it tell you where the phone electronics is put on the US cars ?? (remember I expected to find wiring in the trunk)

The coil cord is the cable that goes from the handset connector on the timeport to the RJ45-like connector in the glovebox - this is part of the cradle on the Nokia

Before you order anything, I think you should find the place where all this is installed (ie the pre-wired 25 way d-type and aerials), then you can see if there is a mounting plate needed or not.

Have you a copy of those instructions that could come my way :-)

Cheers
Richard

Richard

Hello.
Both MCS, COMAND and the Audio5/10/30/30-aps talk to the CD/Phone/VCS/Amp using a protocol called D2B. D2B is a hardware and software specification for the fibre optic ring and the how the different types of components on it talk to each other. The theory is that if you make a D2B compatable device it will talk to other devices hapilly.

So, in theory any D2B phone module should work on a D2B ring.

And therefore MCS should work hapilly with the Nokia module.

BUT I doubt its been tested.

The only thing that has actually been tested is that the US V60 stuff works with European COMAND (Ted Baldwin has this).

The other "problem" is that theres no Nokia cradle to put COMAND into the central glovebox. Our Nokia phones on the ML are mounted next to the COMAND unit (so you can dial on either).

The first thing to do is to see how much of the phone/vcs wiring is there by default on a US ML.

Wind the passenger seat fully forward and look under it from the rear, and you should be able to see some cables sat there not connected to anything ...

Hopefully there is: -
multiway cable ending in a blue plug (power, microphone, vcs switch connections)
A 10way RJ-45 like socket (cable harness that goes up to behind the MCS, which then is popped out the side of the dash to connect the handset to)
2 aerial cables (coax) (one to MCS, one back to aerial. compensator/resistor goes in line here)
Hopefully a orange fibre pair ending in a black connector, probably with a green cover on it. (D2B fibre loop)

Maybee all of it is there, maybee not - can you have a look and see and let me know ? The fibre may not be there, and you'd then have to run it from back of MCS to there.

In europe, theres an extra plate that can be installed under the seat where all the phone and voice recognuition stuff gets installed. Be also aware that there is no cable harness available to support both the Nokia 6310i phone and the VCS system. But you can add the connections relatively easily - I did on my wife's european my2002 ML500 :-)


Cheers
R

rgleason

I assume MCS means Mercedes Command (or Comand) System. Is the comand system something that is in every new Mercedes car, e.g., would my 2002 C240 have it?


This is the first that I have heard of this. Are you saying here that the Nokia cradle will not fit in the C240 central glovebox either or is this only the case with the ML?

peralex

Here is a pick from under the front passenger seat of ML 500 2002 (US)

peralex

And another pick from behind front passenger seat. Looks like control unit for motorola is already in place. I did not want to take everything apart to see how this control unit is hooked up. Is it anything like what you have on EU ML's? I understand that you do not have control unit preinstalled like we do in US, but I was just wondering if I will get all the parts you mentioned earlier is it going to be a plug-n-play installation? The only connectors which were not plugged in were D-sub (25 pin) connector, aerial connector and 4-pin (female) flat connector (sort of CD-rom to sound card connector). There was also aerial cable with connector already plugged in (GPS?).I already sent some inquiries to my friends in Germany about parts.Thanks for your help

peralex

BTW what is that unit above motorola control unit?

Richard

Sorry to cause confusion - MCS is the odd navigation/screen unit in the ML. Its only used on the ML unit in the USA. In Europe we get COMAND (thank god!)

The comments about the nokia phone not fitting is purely about the ML ...

Cheers
Richard