Skylaw

When I upgraded from Firmware Version 1.0x to 2.0x in the MOST bus version of the Gateway 500, I thought the new firmware and its menu system was far more intuitive. However, I had undergone a fairly steep learning curve with the 1.0x menu system, and private messages have convinced me that if one is seeing the v2.0x menus for the first time, the learning curve is still steep because the user manual provides skimpy guidance, and because it is necessary to refer not only to it, but to the manual for your head unit. There are also some "tips" to overcome some frequently occurring obstacles that can truly frustrate the new user. Once those are employed and understood, use of the menus becomes straightforward. I will only address the MOST bus COMAND menus, because I am not familiar with operation of the various Audio head units.

Unfortunately most (if not all) of the Audio series of head units, and the D2B versions of COMAND, are not text capable and will not display song titles.

One of the most troublesome things occurs during initial setup: Selecting the "+Paging" option so as to be able to display text (song titles) and scroll through lists without reverting to "track number" on the COMAND display each time you try to scroll (or shut the car off).

Tip 1: The GW 500 user manual tells you that selection of menu options is made by pressing and holding the "Fast Forward" button on your head unit. Selected commands are canceled using "Rewind." There are no such buttons labeled on COMAND. However, your COMAND manual tells you that those functions are accomplished by using the "SEEK+" button for Fast Forward, and the "SEEK-" button for Rewind, holding each for 2 seconds to effect the selection.

Tip 2: For making the "+Paging" selection (I believe it means "Text + paging" - you'll see why later) hold the "SEEK+" button in for 5 to 10 seconds, not just 2 seconds, to get the selection to "take." Hold it until the screen flickers and resets, then release it. If you have held it long enough, when you select a playlist you will then see song titles, and when you scroll through them you will continue to see successive titles (if you didn't hold it long enough only the first song in a list will show its title; the rest will show only Track number on COMAND; and after you shut your unit down and restart it, Track numbers will again appear instead of song titles).

Note: Some hardware changes - with Hardware Version 1 (which has pigtail fiber optics connectors) and Hardware Version 2 (normal MOST connectors) one sees song titles, artists, and albums only on COMAND, and not on the instrument cluster display. For D2B based COMANDs as well as instrument clusters for D2B and MOST, only track number is displayed. However, a new version 3 hardware release is expected, having an extra cable providing output to the CAN Bus, which should provide song titles on the instrument cluster displays for MOST units (as well as on the COMAND display). One of the Gateway 500 developers has indicated that CAN Bus output for instrument cluster display may also be provided (at a later time) for D2B units. Please don't PM me regarding this, I don't know more; check the Dension site for further information. The version number of the hardware is on the bottom of the metal electronics box; and the V3 hardware for MOST Bus units will have double (both sets of) MOST connectors. At the time of this post, version 3 hardware was just beginning to ship.

The photos below show you what you'll see during the initial setup.

In photo 1 after switching the mode selector switch rapidly 6 times, per the instructions, you get a menu labeled "Cfgdev," and a single line saying "No Text." Using the up/down arrows on COMAND, scroll down through a number of options (photo 2) until you see one that says "+Paging" (photo 3). Highlight "+Paging" with the up/down arrows (a highlighted line is brighter than others), then press and hold the "SEEK+" button (lower left of the screen) until the screen flickers. Now, your COMAND will display song titles, etc. when you have selected playlists, albums, and artists. If this is the very first thing you have done, you may have to shut the car down and restart (or turn COMAND power off and back on) before you see the text.

You'll only have to do this initial setup after initial installation, and possibly after a firmware update. Now, on to menu operation.

Skylaw

Menu selection is accomplished either by using buttons 1-6 on COMAND, to the right of the screen; or by using the left/right arrows below and to the right of the screen. Pressing button 6 will bring up the options for selecting the AUX input; then the iPod, using the iPod user interface (playlist, artist, album, or song selections are made on the iPod with supplemental control of some functions on the steering wheel); then the iPod, using the Gateway 500 interface (iPod controls are not functional; all selections are made on COMAND or the steering wheel); the USB input; Bluetooth audio (perhaps through mp3 cellphones; this requires an optional add-on); Bluetooth handsfree (for cell phone communication, requiring an optional add-on device); a video input device (possibly still under development); and audio from a personal navigation device.

I do not have any of the optional add-on devices, so cannot discuss them. Please refer to the Dension website (www.dension.com) for further information.

The photos below show the screen display for the various options under Menu 6 (except for devices that are not installed in my car). Photo 1 shows the source selection folder. Scrolling brings up in sequence, the AUX, iPod User Interface option, then iPod Gateway 500 User Interface option (in my opinion, the best choice for the iPod), then the USB option (I had no USB device installed at the time, so it showed "no USB." Otherwise it would show the device name).

Also, no other devices showed in the scroll list because I do not have them installed. The rest of this discussion will focus on the iPod Gateway 500 User Interface, which provides the fullest set of features for the iPod. If you understand it, using the other choices is fairly simple as explained in the user manual.

Skylaw

When the iPod is selected as the input device (using button 6), with the Gateway 500 User Interface ("iPod GW 500") chosen, Dension has now assigned the following functions to buttons 1-6 to the right of the COMAND screen:

1= "Scan Playlists"
2= "Scan Artist"
3= "Scan Album"
4= not used for iPod (it is used for other input options as explained in the User Manual)
5= A parking location for whatever function has been chosen
6= Choice of input device or menu

The main buttons that will be used with the iPod in the GW 500 User Interface mode are 1-3.

Button 1 will bring up the list of playlists on the user's iPod. It is easiest to think of each playlist being a folder containing songs in the order that the user has arranged them on the iPod itself; and the entire iPod library is also a folder, showing as a playlist with the name of the iPod as the user has named it, and containing songs in the order in which they appear in the iPod music library.

The first photograph shows the result of my selecting button 1. The first "Playlist" displayed is my iPod music library, displaying my iPod's name.

TIP 3: If you highlight a playlist, artist, or album, the Gateway 500 will begin playing the first song in the list, automatically. The first song's title will be displayed. As the next song plays, its title will be displayed. In order to display and scroll through all of the songs in a playlist, in an album, or by an artist, press and hold "SEEK+" for two seconds. Holding "SEEK+" longer is not required. The names of the first three songs will appear, and you can then use the up/down arrows to scroll through them - if you have properly set "+Paging" in the initial setup.

The second photograph illustrates scrolling through playlists. At the bottom of the list is a line saying ">page1->2" - I have over 90 playlists on my iPod. The GW 500 organizes lists on pages, with about 25 items on a page. When you reach the end of a page, you see the entry indicating the display is moving on to the next page. I believe this is why the oddly-named "+Paging" feature is functionally "Text plus paging" - it enables both text and scrolling in extensive lists.

In the third photo, I have highlighted the playlist "Move Themes." Unless I do something else, it will begin playing the first song in the playlist,and that song's title will appear as shown in the fourth photo (Che Valiers De Sangreal, one of the delightful themes from The Da Vinci Code). In order to display and scroll through the songs in that playlist, use SEEK+ held for 2 seconds to load the playlist's contents (photo 5) - then you can scroll and select other songs (movie buffs will recognize songs from the Children of Men sound track). Although I have grouped some movie themes in a catch-all folder, they could just as well have been organized as individual playlists, or as albums named by the movie title.

Skylaw

Selecting button 2 (first photo) brings up the iPod's artist sorts; and button 3 brings them up the album sort (second photo). Selection of artist and album, and scrolling/selection of specific songs within each is done just as it is done in playlists. Again, when you select an artist or an album, and do nothing else, the songs sorted under that artist or album will begin to play starting with the first in the list; use SEEK+ (held for 2 seconds) to load the list of songs in order to scroll and select individual songs.

Please note that the actual sorting of songs within any folder (including Playlists) is done by the iPod itself; it is not possible to change the sort order on the Gateway 500.

In addition, if there are too many selections in any sort - such as artists' names or albums - the Gateway 500 provides an alphabetical search feature that is fairly intuitive and is not discussed here.

Skylaw

The various mix options (Random Play, etc.) are controlled from the COMAND unit just as they are for the CD Changer.

The iPod User Interface option at button 6 retains use of the iPod controls for sorting and song selection; volume control and certain other functions are retained on the steering wheel buttons as explained in the User Manual. However, if you know how to operate your iPod apart from the car, the additional steering wheel controls are easy to understand.

jbondox

I have a question for ya, because i am not understanding why there is so much of a headache with the unit? The factory installed iPod at the local dealership was something like $550 installed.

Next have you recently tried the NavTv interface on the unit? It did have song titles and all of that other stuff, but had to give up the changer, which isn't a big deal. I am just wondering why the GW seems like it is such a PITA?

Skylaw

To answer question 1, my '05 W220 does not have an AUX input, and therefore cannot use the MB/Apple iPod kit. The kit requires an AUX input, and my '05 isn't alone in lacking one. Another solution was necessary, and I preferred one with fiber optics input and good COMAND integration to any other.

Regarding question 2, I have not tried the Nav-TV. I am not an installer, and the only car I have to experiment with is my own. Other things I learn come from doing a lot of reading, and talking to technicians. One of the things I read (from a professional installer) indicated less than satisfaction with the Nav-TV. Plus, I did not want to give up my CD changer.

Once the setup is done on the Gateway 500, and you realize which buttons on COMAND or other head unit provide the appropriate functions, operation is straightforward. The sound is excellent, limited chiefly by one's recording format (I use AIFF or Apple Lossless, mainly).

The problems stem from the fact that the installation and user manuals are very generically written; there is no manual for any specific head unit. This means you must juggle between the GW 500 user manual and your COMAND or audio unit manual. I can understand the difficulty the GW 500 developers may have writing detailed instructions with so many manufacturers using MOST bus, and also using different head units. However, that leaves a lot to sort through, without much detail - unless, of course, you read this string.

Another set of limitations seems to lie with the MB COMAND unit itself; the same MOST bus version of the GW 500 works better with Audi telematics, according to correspondents who have them.

Still, I like the Gateway 500. A lot. Though I wanted to keep it, I rarely use the CD changer, and I have abandoned making or updating my mp3 DVDs. The iPod is just a better solution all around.

france2112

I use to have the Nav-TV interface on my 2005 SL600 and it sucked!! you could only scroll 5 songs at a time and had to wait for the the song to actually start before you could scroll another 5 songs. If the artist you wanted was a high up letter in the alphabet, say RUSH, it would take forever to access those songs. The Gateway 500 is way better and actually very easy to use.

SKYLAW,
Excellent write up. I really love the unit so far. It sounds great and works very well. I for one appreciate the hard work you put in to experiment and post the result to help us all out. Thanks again.

jbondox

Thanks for the replies, I was just inquiring, the GW500 i seen on the benz was only briefly. and i looked at trying to operate it and I was like screw this... (I am way too old to learn new tricks)

Skylaw

C'mon, jbondox!! I'm 63.

jbondox

see I don't even know how to reply to that... my mind is shot

I did play with a G55 today that had the NavTV unit in it, worked alright, I know now what they were saying about the screen needing to load, this was a 03/2007 version, so semi newer software in it, but it worked

epxguy

Hello Skylaw,

In September 07 I had the MBZ dealer commence the installation of a GW500 in my 2005 CL65. The 2 hours estimated to install has turned into 20 hrs+ and requiring 2 new GW500 units and multiple software upgrades from Dension.... and the result is still not satisfactory.

In order to finally get the IPOD to play, they had to take the CD changer completely out of the fiber loop and put the GW500 in it's place. ( At one point, I gave the MBZ techs one of your GW500 posts re installation which allowed them to get at least that far.) This was to be a temporary situation until they could get back w/ Dension tech for another round of talks.

Approx 2 weeks ago came an email from my MBZ dealer indicating that since I have a CD changer and also use the MBZ factory bluetooth cradle, GW 500 feature of switching between CD changer/IPOD cannot work. According to Dension, all of this is too much for Command. I intend to use the CD changer less with the Ipod possible thru Command, but keeping the option to use the changer if necessary is an important issue for me.

I have noticed my command unit will occasionally not behave nicely since installing the GW500 ( not recognizing Sat radio, shutting down, not operating automatically when car is started...) It also seems that the series of steps (and time) to make the GW500/IPOD operate in my vehicle varies from day to day.

I'm into this for over 3 months and do not want to give up.
Any suggestions and comments would be greatly appreciated.

Skylaw

epxguy,

The Dension site indicates that some MB models (and some models from other manufacturers as well) cannot use both the Gateway 500 and the CD changer.

epxguy

Skylaw,
Thanks for prompt reply.
While anticipating every vehicle situation may be difficult, the GW500 unit specified for my vehicle and the information from Dension (install paper, web site, ordering inquiry, etc..) consistently indicated retention of CD changer. The issue at the moment is the bluetooth and CDC overload. In your opinion, does the bluetooth issue mentioned in my previous post seem reasonable? Thanks for your time.

Skylaw

I have continued to research this, because I'm not satisfied with the answer I gave you above. I can't say I have a certain solution, but here goes.

I have never heard of this "overload" situation because of the phone; typically the Gateway 500 replaces the CDC in the fiber optics bus. To the bus controller, it should look just like a CDC. There is probably a limit as to how many devices the bus controller can handle (I don't know what it is, but would guess that it is the number of devices shown in the bus diagram in the phone bulletins).

I do note that there is correspondence on the forums from contributor GW500, one of the developers of the Gateway 500 device, that indicates cars with CDCs built into the head unit are a problem; those CDCs cannot be replaced by the Gateway 500, and would have to be removed from the bus using the STAR computer.

I also could not find the information on the Dension site I had seen before, related to which MBs would have to give up the CDCs - it is very few models. The information seems to have been replaced by a vehicle compatibility page that references the proper data bus (by model year) and tells you what unit to order; but none of those links provide information on continued use of the CDC - something the site should do, in my view. The installation manual definitely indicates that retention of the CDC in Mercedes is possible.

I am assuming at the outset that your dealer properly configured the Gateway 500's DIP switches for Mercedes. The MOST unit has them (the D2B unit does not).

That leaves me with only one more thought: I could not use my Gateway 500 on its initial installation until I rearranged the fiber optics connectors on several components to physically insert the Gateway 500 into the fiber optic ring immediately ahead of the CDC. Once I did that, the problems went away, and all works as designed. This was necessary so that the Gateway 500 could prevent the CDC from starting up - and possibly "overloading" the bus with too many devices. Then, when you select the CDC using the Gateway 500 mode selector switch, it keeps the GW 500 out of the loop and allows the CDC to take its regular place. The tiny diagram in the installation manual shows the physical connection sequence to be as described here, even though there is nothing mentioned in text (despite my asking Dension to include this information before the last manual revision came out).

You may have seen it already, but the installation writeup detailing this problem is at https://mbworld.org/forums/audio-electronics/194660-gateway-500-most-o-good-unit-poor-documentation.html. Also, contributors Rob13572468 and GW500, mentioned in the writeup, many be good sources of help to resolve this. You might PM them. Since you're new to the forum: Go to the Audio and Electronics forum main page. Select "Search This Forum" and choose "Advanced Search." Enter the user name you want into the "User Name" block, and search. It is not necessary to enter any search terms or dates. Then click on the user name above the avatar in any of their posts, and follow the choices you will see.

Fortunately I knew enough about the physical layout of the fiber optics in my S500 to be able to do that. Unfortunately I am unfamiliar with the layout of other models. However, that is one thing you could try. Besides the DIP switches it's the only thing I can think of.

Please let us know of any progress - or lack thereof - regarding this.

epxguy

Skylaw,
Thank you again for your time and knowledge.

The extremely helpful installation you shared was a link which I had located after several efforts by the MBZ dealer were unsuccessful. I printed out your detail steps and personally handed to the specific MBZ service tech. Your information allowed him to get the system to function for a moment.....unfortunately, when he had everything back together ( console, wiring, etc..) it failed to connect with the GW500. As I had been in the customer lounge for 5 hours, he made the temporary set up mentioned previously which allowed me to use my ipod but the eliminated use of the changer.

Since my original post I did speak to Maurice at Dension(?) Tech support. He had been the contact for the MBZ dealer and recalled the situation. He indicated that the issue was not a "bluetooth " issue but rather, as you mentioned, introducing the GW500 resulted in exceeding the number of devices the CDC bus controller could handle. In order to reduce the number of devices, he instructed the dealer that the changer ( "device") had to be removed from the system.
On an interesting note, Maurice suggested that MBZ may have released a software update to allow more devices. If this was the case, it would solve my problem according to Maurice. I contacted my MBZ dealer, explained/clarified for them the exact issue according to Maurice and asked them to look into the software update possibilty suggested by Maurice.
I expect to hear back from them next week and will let you know their findings.
Skylaw, since your vehicle is a 05 S class with the same lack of aux input, it seems likely that the CDC would be very similar to my CL65. My vehicle has Sat radio, CD changer in trunk, Navigation , DVD, Phone with Voice activation and AM/FM/WB radio. Does your vehicle have the same or less input devices?

It also has keyless go and distronic, but not sure if this matters.

Thanks in advance.

Skylaw

epxguy,

I do not have satellite radio but do have the rest. That could account for the difference.

Thank you for the update. I hope there is a COMAND firmware update for your situation.

Also, because as I understand it the Gateway 500 temporarily replaces the CDC on the bus, so I don't know why the limitation would occur; but I do not know all of the details about exactly how the GW 500 replaces the CDC, so perhaps the answer is there.

TomTanderson

I wonder if anybody got any further with this?

I have an Audio 20 HU, Car Phone pre-wiring with Bluetooth module and CDC in a 2008 E-Class estate.

I have inserted the Dension after the HU and before the CDC. It has been upgraded to the latest firmware (2.08). Everything works fine in Gateway 500 mode but when I switch to service mode the HU says I have no CDC.

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Tom

BTW Thanks for all your work writing this up Skylaw - it must have taken a lot of time.

moondragon

I would be interested too - I have the 2008 E200 with Audio 20 head-unit (in-dash 6 CDC). Unfortunately I am also an Ipod / Iphone fanatic and the lack thereof to play my favourite songs is killing me

Any ideas on my options? I've read before that there was an MB Ipod Kit but it appears that this is only viable for those without the CDC ie. single-CD Headunit.

The GW500 is lovely but I think the lack of documentation specific to Audio 20 and lack of integration with the HDU may be a bugbear.

Appreciate comments.

Thanks.

UK-C200

Hmm, so I can't comment on the "will it work in my E" question, but I can tell you a bit about using it without a COMAND HU (or more specifically without a MOST COMAND) - it's useless in GW mode.

Now, to be honest - the unit works fine, and exactly as advertised, but without the menus, and the text of song titles, etc, it's just about impossible to use. That said, the easy solution is to leave it in "iPod" mode, and simply use the iPod itself to do most of the "driving" - you still get volume control from the steering controls, as well as "next" and "last" song selection using the up/down arrows.

Skylaw

The Version 2.15 firmware update will show both song title and artist (if the song title is too long for both on the single line, press the "Show" softkey in the Audio menu on COMAND for a brief 2-line display).

Version 2.15 firmware also provides a new menu on the "4" button, making "Play All," "random play" and "sample" selections easier. There is no longer any need to go onto the COMAND Audio menu for that.

Version 2.15 firmware also does a better job of integrating the capabilities of the optional BTA 1500 Bluetooth module for the Gateway 500, with the MB head units, including COMAND.

The full list of MB-related changes follows:

New features for the GW500
---------------------------
- Artist information visible on Mercedes Command Head Units
- GW jumps back to the root directory when holding the "Seek-" button for more than 5 seconds. This feature is dependent on the Head Unit
- Extra menu added to Disk #4
- iPod accessory information (firmware, car config, product type) displayed in iPod UI mode in "Settings/About" menu on the iPod

New features for the BTA1500
-----------------------------
- Phonebook compatibility is available for MMI Basic system
- In case of reconnecting the same phone, the phonebook content will be reloaded from RAM

Compatibility:
--------------
- Mercedes MOST Audio 20, Audio 50 and Comand TEXT capable Head Units: The new S Class (W221), C Class (W204) and CL (W216) are not supported (by the GW 500).
- Mercedes: Audio20, Audio 50 and Command Head Units are compatible with BTA1500.

Bug fix
--------
- BTA: Phonebook alphabetical listing corrected
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