Rear speaker balance in R230 SL?
02-06-2009, 08:31 PM
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'05 SL500 Sport; '95 SL500
Rear speaker balance in R230 SL?
I recently purchased an almost-new 2005 SL500, and have been very disappointed iin the sound of the Bose setup. It took several months before I even discovered that there actually are two tiny rear speakers in this car, because they're totally inaudible. And of course, in its infinite wisdom, MB deactivated the fader in the Comand head unit so there's no adjustment.
Can anyone else with an R230 tell me if this is typical? In my car, the soundstage is entirely in front of the seats. Has anyone found a solution to increase the level of the rear speakers? I know they're working, but only by putting my ear up very close.
Overall, I find the mid-bass to be really 'boomy', while at the same time there's not much clarity in the highs (or lows, for that matter). This system truly sounds worse the louder you crank it, and the exaggerated midrange boominess gives me a headache after awhile. It's amazing that a $108k SL doesn't even offer a midrange tone adjustment; the single "surround" processing choice can be activated only for CDs (as if the effect wouldn't be just as useful for a classical FM station?); and there's not even a basic aux input for an iPod.
The Bose system in my 14-year-old 1995 SL500 sounds a whole lot cleaner, better balanced, and more powerful... also, you can definitely hear the small rear speakers in that car. And the Delco/Bose audio/nav setup in our '04 Cadillac SRX blows them both away with the bass and clarity more typical of Bose systems in other cars, but I sure don't hear in the R230!
Rob
Can anyone else with an R230 tell me if this is typical? In my car, the soundstage is entirely in front of the seats. Has anyone found a solution to increase the level of the rear speakers? I know they're working, but only by putting my ear up very close.
Overall, I find the mid-bass to be really 'boomy', while at the same time there's not much clarity in the highs (or lows, for that matter). This system truly sounds worse the louder you crank it, and the exaggerated midrange boominess gives me a headache after awhile. It's amazing that a $108k SL doesn't even offer a midrange tone adjustment; the single "surround" processing choice can be activated only for CDs (as if the effect wouldn't be just as useful for a classical FM station?); and there's not even a basic aux input for an iPod.
The Bose system in my 14-year-old 1995 SL500 sounds a whole lot cleaner, better balanced, and more powerful... also, you can definitely hear the small rear speakers in that car. And the Delco/Bose audio/nav setup in our '04 Cadillac SRX blows them both away with the bass and clarity more typical of Bose systems in other cars, but I sure don't hear in the R230!
Rob
06-16-2009, 12:59 AM
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Did the 2005 $108k SL not come with an owners manual? What are you going to fade? the rear speakers are wired mono, and are very small, I believe 1.25" . they are supposed to be subtle.
sound stage up front is what you would want, unless you go to see a live performance with your back to the stage. after all the music your playing is a recording from the artist as if it was recorded for you personally.
The COMAND is older, it is what it is for that time period. take it all out and add an after-market system, though the sub is wired for 1/2 ohm, good luck re-using the woofer on an aftermarket amp at that impedance.
and as for the SRX statement... I will bite my lip
it is not the cars fault that the 5 year old audio system doesn't sound as good
sound stage up front is what you would want, unless you go to see a live performance with your back to the stage. after all the music your playing is a recording from the artist as if it was recorded for you personally.
The COMAND is older, it is what it is for that time period. take it all out and add an after-market system, though the sub is wired for 1/2 ohm, good luck re-using the woofer on an aftermarket amp at that impedance.
and as for the SRX statement... I will bite my lip
it is not the cars fault that the 5 year old audio system doesn't sound as good
06-17-2009, 03:30 AM
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2006 SL500/2006 Porsche Cayenne S Titanium
Rvonder,
I agree with you totally about the SL Bose system. Unfortunately, the system is just not what you'd expect. I see that you live in Northern Virginia, I live outside DC in Maryland but found a shop in Viena that offers two customer rear speakers for fill in and and amp for about $700-900 depending on the power of the amp. I stopped by and they also do alot of bluetooth installs as well. The day I stopped, they were working on a 997 and a Lambo. I'll try and find the name, it escapes me right now. Sorry it's 3:28am and should be in bed, but I wanted to see if I got anymore replies to my thread regarding sluggish response from the transmission.
I'll let you know tomorrow....
Stay tuned...
There is hope!
I agree with you totally about the SL Bose system. Unfortunately, the system is just not what you'd expect. I see that you live in Northern Virginia, I live outside DC in Maryland but found a shop in Viena that offers two customer rear speakers for fill in and and amp for about $700-900 depending on the power of the amp. I stopped by and they also do alot of bluetooth installs as well. The day I stopped, they were working on a 997 and a Lambo. I'll try and find the name, it escapes me right now. Sorry it's 3:28am and should be in bed, but I wanted to see if I got anymore replies to my thread regarding sluggish response from the transmission.
I'll let you know tomorrow....
Stay tuned...
There is hope!
06-20-2009, 02:30 AM
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Rvonder,
Sorry it took me a few days to get back to you on your qwest for better sound in your SL. The name of the shop is Hurley Auto Radio and they are in Viena,VA about a block away from Rosenthal Jaguar and HBL Mercedes. His name is Gary Hurley and the number is 703-790-8744. Hope that helps. Let me know what you decide to do.
Sorry it took me a few days to get back to you on your qwest for better sound in your SL. The name of the shop is Hurley Auto Radio and they are in Viena,VA about a block away from Rosenthal Jaguar and HBL Mercedes. His name is Gary Hurley and the number is 703-790-8744. Hope that helps. Let me know what you decide to do.
06-20-2009, 07:36 PM
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'05 SL500 Sport; '95 SL500
@Gary, thanks for the referral. In fact, I've already been to Hurley's via a referral from HBL which says they're the best in the area. But I was sure underwhelmed with their attitude the day I stopped in - they may be competent, but seemed very flippant (almost arrogant) with their advice, and basically said that I should just have them rip and replace the whole system.
Hurley's quoted really big $$ to replace all the speakers and amps (even if I retain the head unit), plus another $1000+ to add Bluetooth and iPod support via a MoBridge unit. Even after all that, I'd still have the same feeble head unit and nav. So I'm now looking into replacing the entire COMAND setup with the new NTG 2.5 gear, which not only addresses the Bose sound issues (with NTG 2.5 they've switched to Harman-Kardon), but also provides very nice integrated voice control (eg, enter nav destinations just by speaking the address), native iPod and Bluetooth, and even satellite radio. It wouldn't be inexpensive, but at least delivers a much more complete solution and is all OEM so covered by warranty and insurance. At this point I know it's very much possible; the challenge is to find all the hardware at prices more reasonable than MB is asking so as to make it practical.
@jbondox, if you don't want to be helpful then might I respectfully suggest simply refraining from comment? Yes, of course there is a manual - and yes, I have read it from cover to cover. I also did a lot of online research before I posted. Ignoring your snarky comment about facing backwards, I do understand the concept of soundstage and agree it should be positioned primarily in the front/side. While the rear surround speakers should be 'subtle', I do think they should at least be 'audible'. Mine are not, unless I literally place my ear directly over the speaker. My old R129 SL500 has a very similar Bose setup with the same tiny rear fill speakers (Bose used to call them "twiddlers"), but they are definitely audible and really help to bring the sound more into the car, especially when the top is down.
It's true that this 2005 COMAND is "older", but it doesn't even compare well to other Bose systems of the same vintage. Although my 1995 SL is ten years older than this one, I have never been disappointed like this with its Bose setup. Ditto the one-year-older Bose system in the SRX, which at least offers a three-band equalizer (the midrange control helps in taming the typical Bose overboosted midrange), a choice of DSP flavors (including settings for "front", "spacious", or "talk" to place the soundstage where the user prefers it), and a 6-CD changer integrated into the head unit. My point was simply that most Bose systems, even those that are much older, offer better sound and way more functionality.
Of course this isn't "the car's fault" -- but it is Mercedes' fault for choosing to install this disappointing system. They ought to be ashamed. MB buyers should expect and deserve better. Yet MB has lagged far behind in terms of their 'infotainment' systems for many years. The new NTG 2.5 COMAND units (as found in the 2009 SL's) are a huge step forward, and are now at least competitive with 3-5 year older systems provided in cars stickering for 1/3 the price.
Finally, I don't understand at all your snide remark about needing to "bite your lip" simply from a mention of the SRX. This is a Mercedes forum, but a comparison to other Bose systems of similar vintage was entirely relevant. And while a bit off-topic, I looked closely at every midsize/crossover -- including the ML500 -- before choosing the SRX. I just didn't find anything that could compare with it back in 2004. Motor Trend agreed, naming the SRX as its midsize SUV of the Year for two years in a row. And I think that the upcoming 2010 SRX will reset the bar again, since it's based on the redesigned CTS that is winning comparos against cars with long pedigrees like the BMW 5-series. I'm the first to bash cars that deserve it, but these days Cadillac is building a product every bit as good as the Germans or Japanese and definitely doesn't deserve it.
Hurley's quoted really big $$ to replace all the speakers and amps (even if I retain the head unit), plus another $1000+ to add Bluetooth and iPod support via a MoBridge unit. Even after all that, I'd still have the same feeble head unit and nav. So I'm now looking into replacing the entire COMAND setup with the new NTG 2.5 gear, which not only addresses the Bose sound issues (with NTG 2.5 they've switched to Harman-Kardon), but also provides very nice integrated voice control (eg, enter nav destinations just by speaking the address), native iPod and Bluetooth, and even satellite radio. It wouldn't be inexpensive, but at least delivers a much more complete solution and is all OEM so covered by warranty and insurance. At this point I know it's very much possible; the challenge is to find all the hardware at prices more reasonable than MB is asking so as to make it practical.
@jbondox, if you don't want to be helpful then might I respectfully suggest simply refraining from comment? Yes, of course there is a manual - and yes, I have read it from cover to cover. I also did a lot of online research before I posted. Ignoring your snarky comment about facing backwards, I do understand the concept of soundstage and agree it should be positioned primarily in the front/side. While the rear surround speakers should be 'subtle', I do think they should at least be 'audible'. Mine are not, unless I literally place my ear directly over the speaker. My old R129 SL500 has a very similar Bose setup with the same tiny rear fill speakers (Bose used to call them "twiddlers"), but they are definitely audible and really help to bring the sound more into the car, especially when the top is down.
It's true that this 2005 COMAND is "older", but it doesn't even compare well to other Bose systems of the same vintage. Although my 1995 SL is ten years older than this one, I have never been disappointed like this with its Bose setup. Ditto the one-year-older Bose system in the SRX, which at least offers a three-band equalizer (the midrange control helps in taming the typical Bose overboosted midrange), a choice of DSP flavors (including settings for "front", "spacious", or "talk" to place the soundstage where the user prefers it), and a 6-CD changer integrated into the head unit. My point was simply that most Bose systems, even those that are much older, offer better sound and way more functionality.
Of course this isn't "the car's fault" -- but it is Mercedes' fault for choosing to install this disappointing system. They ought to be ashamed. MB buyers should expect and deserve better. Yet MB has lagged far behind in terms of their 'infotainment' systems for many years. The new NTG 2.5 COMAND units (as found in the 2009 SL's) are a huge step forward, and are now at least competitive with 3-5 year older systems provided in cars stickering for 1/3 the price.
Finally, I don't understand at all your snide remark about needing to "bite your lip" simply from a mention of the SRX. This is a Mercedes forum, but a comparison to other Bose systems of similar vintage was entirely relevant. And while a bit off-topic, I looked closely at every midsize/crossover -- including the ML500 -- before choosing the SRX. I just didn't find anything that could compare with it back in 2004. Motor Trend agreed, naming the SRX as its midsize SUV of the Year for two years in a row. And I think that the upcoming 2010 SRX will reset the bar again, since it's based on the redesigned CTS that is winning comparos against cars with long pedigrees like the BMW 5-series. I'm the first to bash cars that deserve it, but these days Cadillac is building a product every bit as good as the Germans or Japanese and definitely doesn't deserve it.
06-20-2009, 10:17 PM
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Rvonder,
You are welcome, you must have hit them on a bad day. To bad, they were really helpful and didn't recommend removing the entire head unit. Oh well, I like the idea of replacing the Command system with the new NTG 2.5 system. It would solve the majority of our issues.
It's funny, I traded in an 04 Cadillac XLR with the Bose system, and it sounded great. Good sound stage, great punchy bass and clear highs. That was in an 04 and it had speakers mounted in the seats below the headrests just like Infiniti does with their Bose system in the M35 and M45. It also had a six disc in dash changer and midrange control. Amazing that for all of the grief the American manufacturers get, Cadillac at least produces some good cars. Good performance, great sound, the only problem is losy resale value. An 04 with 23K on the odometer is only worth $25-$26 grand and it was $80 grand new.
Time will tell if the SL will continue to hold up in the resale market. Let me know how much the final tab is on the new head unit, if it's reasonable enough, tell your dealer that you might have someone else interested if he can cut us a reasonable deal.
One last comment, there is a stereo install shop in Manassas that I visited last weekend, Safe and Sound I belive and they to can install the bluetooth adaptor along with the ipod interface for appx $700 for the bluetooth only and $1200 for both the bluetooth and the ipod. It's the Tooki (sp?) brand. The other brand that I had heard was decent is the Dennison, have you heard about that one?
Keep me in the loop and happy trails....
Gary
You are welcome, you must have hit them on a bad day. To bad, they were really helpful and didn't recommend removing the entire head unit. Oh well, I like the idea of replacing the Command system with the new NTG 2.5 system. It would solve the majority of our issues.
It's funny, I traded in an 04 Cadillac XLR with the Bose system, and it sounded great. Good sound stage, great punchy bass and clear highs. That was in an 04 and it had speakers mounted in the seats below the headrests just like Infiniti does with their Bose system in the M35 and M45. It also had a six disc in dash changer and midrange control. Amazing that for all of the grief the American manufacturers get, Cadillac at least produces some good cars. Good performance, great sound, the only problem is losy resale value. An 04 with 23K on the odometer is only worth $25-$26 grand and it was $80 grand new.
Time will tell if the SL will continue to hold up in the resale market. Let me know how much the final tab is on the new head unit, if it's reasonable enough, tell your dealer that you might have someone else interested if he can cut us a reasonable deal.
One last comment, there is a stereo install shop in Manassas that I visited last weekend, Safe and Sound I belive and they to can install the bluetooth adaptor along with the ipod interface for appx $700 for the bluetooth only and $1200 for both the bluetooth and the ipod. It's the Tooki (sp?) brand. The other brand that I had heard was decent is the Dennison, have you heard about that one?
Keep me in the loop and happy trails....
Gary
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06-21-2009, 01:45 AM
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MBWorld Fanatic!
the 2.5 is a better system then what you have, but... the amp needs replacing, satellite, telaid, voice I think is a separate module also... then aid the media interface...
i am guessing $5kish... Rob17354682--39847 will be able to give a more in depth report
though it might be factory, it still lacks touchscreen control, and is still slightly behind the a few other manufacturers and aftermarket.
my comment regarding your GM statement would of been more on the lines of MB isn't filing for bankruptcy...and a few other statements...SRX is a nice vehicle and is definitely a vehicle to give the 20,000 Subaru's running around mount hood a run for their money... especially if I had the dough to toss in a LS7 ...well pay mallett to toss it in
I would replace the whole sound system ... then again you can do a video conversion to the front screen, and add an alpine Vhub or a Kenwood KOS system utilizing the aux in.
here are a few pics
i am guessing $5kish... Rob17354682--39847 will be able to give a more in depth report
though it might be factory, it still lacks touchscreen control, and is still slightly behind the a few other manufacturers and aftermarket.
my comment regarding your GM statement would of been more on the lines of MB isn't filing for bankruptcy...and a few other statements...SRX is a nice vehicle and is definitely a vehicle to give the 20,000 Subaru's running around mount hood a run for their money... especially if I had the dough to toss in a LS7 ...well pay mallett to toss it in
I would replace the whole sound system ... then again you can do a video conversion to the front screen, and add an alpine Vhub or a Kenwood KOS system utilizing the aux in.
here are a few pics
06-23-2009, 09:34 PM
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Nice pictures and nice sound system Jbondox. What did that set you back and tell us what you did. It looks like you removed the cd changer and added speakers. Not sure, but let us know who did the install. Very professional looking!
Rvonder,
I had the day off today and stopped in to Myer Emco in Baileys Crossroads and talked to a Master Installer by the name of Chris. He was currently working on a $40,000 system for a Hummer H1. Quality work and had lots of pics of installs from Lambo's to F430's and Acura NXS's. Anyhow, he could remove the entire system and start over or keep the head unit and and add speakers and subs. The one thing that was very intersting was adding subs in the passager floor boards and an amp. Using a fiberglass enclosure, they were JL subs with a JL mono amp. Total price including labor was $2400. Check him out, he could at least give you some more options.
Rvonder,
I had the day off today and stopped in to Myer Emco in Baileys Crossroads and talked to a Master Installer by the name of Chris. He was currently working on a $40,000 system for a Hummer H1. Quality work and had lots of pics of installs from Lambo's to F430's and Acura NXS's. Anyhow, he could remove the entire system and start over or keep the head unit and and add speakers and subs. The one thing that was very intersting was adding subs in the passager floor boards and an amp. Using a fiberglass enclosure, they were JL subs with a JL mono amp. Total price including labor was $2400. Check him out, he could at least give you some more options.
