OzSL55

I am going through probably the least straight forward audio system upgrade I've ever commissioned. I am determined to install my choice of amp and speakers into my SL55 without displacing the Command system. Naturally, this presents a challenge. Being that my non Bose system Command outputs a passively crossed over signal at about 6-800hz(roughly checked), we naturally have a problem before we start. There seems to potentially be 2 ways to tackle this problem. One is to obtain a specially modified factory Bose amp, which delivers a line level output (Steve from MBenzNL can supply these) or possibly use an Audio Control LC6 line output convertor and feeding it all channels (high, mid, and low) from the Command and summing the outputs together to feed to an amp.

Has any here been through this kind of install, if so can they share their experiences on what they did and how it worked?

Thanks,

Oz

MBc230

I guess this depends if you have a shop install the stuff or you doing it yourself. If you were installing it yourself, it would be more convenient to have the Bose since you don't have much wiring to do on your own (since LC6 would require running power/remote/ground) and can be plug/play?). A downside would be because the Bose amp is "modified" to have a line output, so your sound quality may not be as converted as well as to using the LC6.

I would recommend using the Audio Control LC6 converter. At a price of only $150 ($135 online), it won't hurt the wallet much. Audio Control is a reputable company and they make high quality products so you can expect great sound quality.

Steve makes great products and does impeccable work so you can't go wrong with his craftsmanship as well.

IanSL55

Have you figured this out? I'd love to hear how this turns out.

Ian

OzSL55

At this stage I'm going with the audiocontrol LC6 option as my installers are now confident that it will do the job after hearing back from audiocontrol on it. It is the more cost effective option as the modded Bose unit costs 400 euros vs. the LC6 at about $150US.

Just waiting for stock of the LC6's to arrive at the distributors, then we are set to go.

Elvis Presley

You may want to look into amplifiers with balaced inputs. This would give you the very best sound quality using the factory head unit. I am using older soundstream amplifiers and it works great. I made the din connector for $2.

OzSL55

I'm quite into sound and have used balanced interconnects on home hifi systems and use them with pro DJ mixers and amps as well. However, in all of the years I've been into car audio which include competition systems, the most I've used are line drivers to send the unbalanced preamp signal to the boot via a balanced connection. Balanced is always a good idea, however I fail to see how you can get balanced output out of a non-balanced factory head unit (not that there are any aftermarket heads I've seen with Balanced outs). I've also seen people make an RCA to XLR cable in home systems. I ran a Krell amp with that setup for while because it was incorrectly advised and supplied by the dealer. Unfortunately, it accomplishes nothing if both ends of the cable aren't balanced.

Elvis Presley

The W210 E320 Wagon uses balanced outputs. Some higher quality amps have balanced inputs. I simply made a din plug that enabled connection. The quality is amazing especially with the cd changer.

Paxfobiscum

Mention the magic words "W210 wagon" and my ears perk up.

What is this all about??? I am no stereo expert or even come close to it but I certainly am willing to learn more about the topic (car and or home systems).

My 98 wagon has the bose factory system with a nice size sub integrated into the right rear wheel. It took me years to realize it was even there. My ears may be deceiving me but I noticed that the bose WAGON system sounded somewhat better than the bose SEDAN system, perhaps because of the bigger cabin space? After I replaced the stereo head unit with COMAND the system sounded even better. Added a couple of really dirt-worm-cheap tweeters into my front door pillars and that made the system sound EVEN better!!!

Steve, added a cable to my COMAND aux to connect the ipod and it sounds good too. Too bad I cannot control the ipod from my MF steering wheels though except for the volume control.

So what should I do next. Suggestions from you stereo gods out there would be highly appreciated...

OzSL55

Finding that some factory heads and some amps have balanced inputs is great, but unfortunately it doesn't apply to what I'm trying to do when you have the audio control LC6 line level converter in the equation. The LC6 has to be there to create a full-range line level signal from the Command units crossed-over amplified signal but it doesn't provide you with balanced outs as a result. Anyway, as I was alluding to yesterday, in all of the installs I've dealt with bar when I needed to send a signal to the amps in the boot of my competition car, I've never worried about balanced connections (a line driver in this case) in car audio (nor have any of the many highend installers I've worked with). It's also worth noting that none of the high-end amps I own or have owned have had balanced inputs as a feature: Phoenix Gold, McIntosh or ADS (I use RF as well, but let's consider them mid range models). I'm also not inclined to worry about the newer SoundStream amps as they are being made in Asia these days.

OzSL55

Finally, after much waiting for the LC6 to arrive we finally have worked everything out in my car and learned plenty along the way.

The LC6 is just what's called for in this application, mind you JL is bringing out a similar device in June which should also be very good for these OEM integration problems. The only pitfall that the installer needs to be made aware of and one which none of the many people we spoke to indentified, is that the Command headunit has a reverse phase output in it's low end signal(thanks OEM Command maker!). This caused us some serious angst as it made us think quite understandably, that the ADS amp wasn't powerful enough to drive the Boston Z9's properly and the sound had serious lower mid range deficiencies. I was fortunate enough to be able to directly A/B compare mine with the sound of the Z9's in local Boston rep's own car, which is a big empty station wagon hard to deal with acoustically. I already knew there was a problem, but after hearing them again in the rep's fairly simple setup I knew exactly how much was missing from the sound. I had to laugh out loud when the rep made the remark to me that the sound in my car made it sound like a Bose system, which I said to him summed it up perfectly! We then wasted some serious time trying to figure it out and then tried Boston's largest amp, which naturally overcame the phase problem through sheer grunt. However, once this problem was indentified a few days ago we found that the ADS now drives the Z9's beautifully, as it should have in the first place. In the interim we had decided that we may need a digital EQ to counterract some lower mid range frequency deficiencies we thought were caused by the Command but really related to the whole phase problem. Fortunately, we didn't waste any time with the AudioControl DQT EQ before the phase problem was solved. After that though, we hooked up the DQT and had a go at fine tuning the system in conjunction with some laptop based RTA software. We were able to address a minor deficiency in the 600-900k range which did add a small but noticeable improvement in the expected lower mid ranges. At this stage I am thinking, even though it's not entirely necessary, to keep the DQT in the system and setup some custom EQ maps for myself.

Anyway, the end result is an enormous improvement over the drab stock sound quality or overpriced Bose system B.S. attempt at quality.

Hopefully a few out there will benefit from this info now that we have paved the way here to a degree.

scorchie

Ah, the beauty of a 180 degree phase switch on a monoblock subwoofer amplifier.

(Although I am a long time user of Carver and AudioControl products, I felt it was unfortunately that PG purchased the names of these producs, and hardly would consider them the peers of the other companies you listed as "high end".)

-s-

OzSL55

Very handy that. I've got one on my Revel B15 home theater sub.

When I had Phoenix it was back in the early 90's when they were the competition reference. I had 4 in my BMW competition car at the time and they were awesome. I haven't dealt with them since that time, so I have no reference for how they are quality-wise these days...

Rick SL55

Is your system still working w/o problems.
Who else had done modify the Command or Bose amplifier?.

OzSL55

Man I wish I could tell you but my SL55 is loooong gone. It was sold 2 years ago last month. I announced my departure from the forums in post in May '07. Technology would have moved on by now for sure. I haven't tried to get a factory integration like that down since that time so unfort I can't advise.

Rick SL55

Oz
Thanks for your follow up.

OzSL55

No probs at all. Fortunately, I never changed my subscription email status. One thing I know it always irks me is when you are hoping for an answer on an old thread on a forum and you don't ever hear one way or another...

V8 AMG

Hi OzSL55, I've been trying to contact you via PM but noticed that you no longer use it. Can u PM me back if/when you get this message.


Cheers mate.