Any Sporty Rims for a 97 C280 ?
08-21-2002, 01:31 AM
#26
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i think when you lower the tire sidewall, the center gravity also lower as well. even though the height of vehicle is unchanged, but it does not mean the center gravity is unchaged.
the distance of sidewall is an empty space full of air, if this distance ("air" space) has been reduced. so does the vehicle's body weight getting close to the ground. in contrast the center of gravity will be lower as well.
let's use another example, if w202 equipped with a set of 13" inches with larger tire sidewall (assuming the wheel total diameter unchanged), the total body weight has been lifted higher from the ground due to the "air" space has been enlarged and the center gravity of the vehicle is higher as well.
maybe the change of center gravity is min. but it does help a little big in vehicle's handling.
This is just my theory, maybe, i should consult with tire/whell specialist or manufature directly to find out what actually has an effect on vehicle's center gravity.
the distance of sidewall is an empty space full of air, if this distance ("air" space) has been reduced. so does the vehicle's body weight getting close to the ground. in contrast the center of gravity will be lower as well.
let's use another example, if w202 equipped with a set of 13" inches with larger tire sidewall (assuming the wheel total diameter unchanged), the total body weight has been lifted higher from the ground due to the "air" space has been enlarged and the center gravity of the vehicle is higher as well.
maybe the change of center gravity is min. but it does help a little big in vehicle's handling.
This is just my theory, maybe, i should consult with tire/whell specialist or manufature directly to find out what actually has an effect on vehicle's center gravity.
08-21-2002, 01:43 AM
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1997 C230
quoted from "my97c280benz"
"But recently AMG (Mercedes) went to a different wheel manufacture out of tawian, or japan.. I dont recall.. any how the wheels were made of much cheaper quality."
AMG went for a different wheel manufacture does not mean cheaper quality. no matter where the manufacture located at, it must meet AMG's high standard and quality control in order to produce wheel for AMG. AMG will not take the risk of destorying its image and reputation for cheaper product/quality.
Most of the IBM, DELL, COMPAQ computer products are manufacture in taiwan, do you think they are all cheaper quality?
the climate and weather in your area does have a great effect to the life of wheel. i heard someone put wax on the wheel to protect from bad weather, maybe iit works!
"But recently AMG (Mercedes) went to a different wheel manufacture out of tawian, or japan.. I dont recall.. any how the wheels were made of much cheaper quality."
AMG went for a different wheel manufacture does not mean cheaper quality. no matter where the manufacture located at, it must meet AMG's high standard and quality control in order to produce wheel for AMG. AMG will not take the risk of destorying its image and reputation for cheaper product/quality.
Most of the IBM, DELL, COMPAQ computer products are manufacture in taiwan, do you think they are all cheaper quality?
the climate and weather in your area does have a great effect to the life of wheel. i heard someone put wax on the wheel to protect from bad weather, maybe iit works!
08-21-2002, 04:09 AM
#28
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1997 C230
Originally posted by E55 KEV
[B]
Shorter springs are used to lower the vehicles center of gravity.
Doing a Plus-1, Plus-2, or Plus-3 tire/wheel upgrade does not lower the car it only lowers the tire sidewalls while the tire and cars height remains constant. A proper Plus-upgrade increases the rim size and the tire height is 'supposed' to remain close to the height of the OEM tire.
[B]
Shorter springs are used to lower the vehicles center of gravity.
Doing a Plus-1, Plus-2, or Plus-3 tire/wheel upgrade does not lower the car it only lowers the tire sidewalls while the tire and cars height remains constant. A proper Plus-upgrade increases the rim size and the tire height is 'supposed' to remain close to the height of the OEM tire.
http://autorepair.about.com/library/...bldef-101a.htm
CENTER OF GRAVITY
Definition: An imaginary point around which the weight of a vehicle is centered. A lower center of gravity improves handing stability and cornering agility. The center of gravity can be lowered by installing shorter suspension springs and/or low profile tires.
08-21-2002, 09:02 AM
#29
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Hey Guys are you looking for a perfect world. There are no 'absolutes' in this world and things change all the time. Every car maker makes changes not just Mercedes and Mercedes does not make all the parts on the cars especially wheels, tires, headlights etc. The quality of everything made in the entire world has lessened. We were discussing plus upgrades not wheel quality - that is another debate.
As far as getting the best information about wheels and tires, Tire Rack is probably one on the best sources on the internet or to call. We can not call or contact AMG or Mercedes about aftermarket wheel advise and your dealer can not give you information about aftermarket products.
There has been a great deal of changes and upgrades in the aftermarket wheel and tire business and 7 - 8 years ago there were not a lot of Tire sizes available to do what can be recommended today. When the W202 was introduced in 1994 there were a lot less products on the market to fit. In 1994 you could not find low-profile tire sizes that are here today like a staggered setup on the C32 for example. They did not exist.
As far as getting the best information about wheels and tires, Tire Rack is probably one on the best sources on the internet or to call. We can not call or contact AMG or Mercedes about aftermarket wheel advise and your dealer can not give you information about aftermarket products.
There has been a great deal of changes and upgrades in the aftermarket wheel and tire business and 7 - 8 years ago there were not a lot of Tire sizes available to do what can be recommended today. When the W202 was introduced in 1994 there were a lot less products on the market to fit. In 1994 you could not find low-profile tire sizes that are here today like a staggered setup on the C32 for example. They did not exist.
08-21-2002, 09:35 AM
#30
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2002 C320
Using larger rims (thus lower profile tires) helps handling because the sidewall is smaller (thus less "flexing" when you go into a turn). Doesn't really lower the center of gravity (the overall height of the tire/rim hasn't changed, at least not too much if you chose the right combination). Also, you'll usually have a larger contact area (rims are usually wider when they get bigger..at least from 15-17"). Lowering the car helps in a way not because it makes the car lower, but because the springs usually have a higher spring rate (after all, you don't get better handling if you just cut a stock coil...yes, you get a lowered stance, but the handling will be horrible). You will sacrifice a little ride quality (depending on the spring).
If you're looking to have a great handling, great looking car, you have to find a good combination of suspension parts and tires/rims. Lowering the car with H&R or Eibach springs will give you a nice lowered stance, esp when you get larger rims (otherwise there's way too much fender gap). It will also allow you to corner better (but be careful, you might not know the limits of your car after you do this, so don't go crazy thinking you're the drift king
). You might want to get new shocks too since the stock shocks will most likely wear out quicker. Plus, you'd want to get some shocks that are better tuned for lowering springs (Bilstein Sports are a good choice, as are Koni's). The best choice would be a matched spring/shock combo, but the only one i know of is H&R's cup kit, and it lowers the car quite a bit (you can use larger spring pads to raise it a little).
Tire choice is extrememly important if you're looking for good handling and ride quality (not only that, it's the only thing keeping you on the road!). Also, make sure you get the right tire size, otherwise it might rub. For rims, make sure you get the right offset. bkyln: 17" is as big as I'd go if you're driving around NYC daily(those freakin' 2" metal plates in the winter are killer). Even then you might want to go back to stock in the winter time. Even at 17" (or even 16") you can dent a rim if you hit a pothole or one of those plates...hey, it's a fact of life. We don't live in Florida or Cali.
After you're done with that, you can even look into getting some sway bars. However, that will also alter your car's geometry (it may make it understeer more or oversteer, depending on the setup), and most people don't bother doing that anyway.
I had put my 16" SLK rims on my C280, and the fender gap looked pretty bad. The car took corners a bit better, but i still feel the car sway quite a bit. I liked the way the rims looked, but I definitely have to lower the car. I was already using #1 (thinnest) spring pads. Would I get 19" rims for my car? probably not...unless i was going for show and lived in cali..hehe...it's just a little too much for me. If you got the cash, sure, go ahead...again, at that point, it's all about looks. And 22" would probably be WAY too big, unless you had some major fender work.
You want more opinions on handling, suspension, etc? Go to an autoX...lots of those guys have been doing it for years, and they're very willing to help (well, at least at the one i went to).
Whew..ok, i ranted on long enough. Glad everyone has some constructive thoughts on this matter
If you're looking to have a great handling, great looking car, you have to find a good combination of suspension parts and tires/rims. Lowering the car with H&R or Eibach springs will give you a nice lowered stance, esp when you get larger rims (otherwise there's way too much fender gap). It will also allow you to corner better (but be careful, you might not know the limits of your car after you do this, so don't go crazy thinking you're the drift king
). You might want to get new shocks too since the stock shocks will most likely wear out quicker. Plus, you'd want to get some shocks that are better tuned for lowering springs (Bilstein Sports are a good choice, as are Koni's). The best choice would be a matched spring/shock combo, but the only one i know of is H&R's cup kit, and it lowers the car quite a bit (you can use larger spring pads to raise it a little). Tire choice is extrememly important if you're looking for good handling and ride quality (not only that, it's the only thing keeping you on the road!). Also, make sure you get the right tire size, otherwise it might rub. For rims, make sure you get the right offset. bkyln: 17" is as big as I'd go if you're driving around NYC daily(those freakin' 2" metal plates in the winter are killer). Even then you might want to go back to stock in the winter time. Even at 17" (or even 16") you can dent a rim if you hit a pothole or one of those plates...hey, it's a fact of life. We don't live in Florida or Cali.
After you're done with that, you can even look into getting some sway bars. However, that will also alter your car's geometry (it may make it understeer more or oversteer, depending on the setup), and most people don't bother doing that anyway. I had put my 16" SLK rims on my C280, and the fender gap looked pretty bad. The car took corners a bit better, but i still feel the car sway quite a bit. I liked the way the rims looked, but I definitely have to lower the car. I was already using #1 (thinnest) spring pads. Would I get 19" rims for my car? probably not...unless i was going for show and lived in cali..hehe...it's just a little too much for me. If you got the cash, sure, go ahead...again, at that point, it's all about looks. And 22" would probably be WAY too big, unless you had some major fender work.
You want more opinions on handling, suspension, etc? Go to an autoX...lots of those guys have been doing it for years, and they're very willing to help (well, at least at the one i went to).
Whew..ok, i ranted on long enough. Glad everyone has some constructive thoughts on this matter
Last edited by SLK Boy; 08-21-2002 at 09:38 AM.
08-21-2002, 10:46 AM
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I believe back in 80's 15" was the most popular size of wheel when people consider upgrading tire/wheel. The most popular tire size was 195/50VR15 and everyone wants to have that installed.
Early 90's the 16" dominated the market and slowly switch to 17" in the late 90's.
Now the 18", 19" even 20" is the most popular choice, most shop will recommend to size up to the max but still keeping the same diameter. so oftenly you will see BIG FOOT on the highway in Southern California, like Camry with 20", CIVIC with 18"......
I remember 1985 Lamborghinii Countach has only 15" all around, and 1990 Acura NSX standard equipment is only 16" at 4 corners. Do you think these cars look ugly by not installing larger wheel per today standard? Of course, we can install 20" on 85 Lambo, but it just doesn't look right to me!
maybe 5 years from now, Corolla will come standard with 18" and MB are all equipped with 20"+ wheels........
this is just a trend in auto fashion business, nothing got to do with handling department!
Early 90's the 16" dominated the market and slowly switch to 17" in the late 90's.
Now the 18", 19" even 20" is the most popular choice, most shop will recommend to size up to the max but still keeping the same diameter. so oftenly you will see BIG FOOT on the highway in Southern California, like Camry with 20", CIVIC with 18"......
I remember 1985 Lamborghinii Countach has only 15" all around, and 1990 Acura NSX standard equipment is only 16" at 4 corners. Do you think these cars look ugly by not installing larger wheel per today standard? Of course, we can install 20" on 85 Lambo, but it just doesn't look right to me!
maybe 5 years from now, Corolla will come standard with 18" and MB are all equipped with 20"+ wheels........
this is just a trend in auto fashion business, nothing got to do with handling department!
08-21-2002, 04:29 PM
#32
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[i]this is just a trend in auto fashion business, nothing got to do with handling department! [/B]
That 1985 Countach will not handle the same and maybe worse if you add 20 inch wheels to it and not upgrade the suspension. Only speculation.
There is a difference in feel and handling when the cars suspension is designed from the start to accomodate a certain size wheel. For Example: My 2002 E55 has 245/40/18 & 275/35/18. You can put that same sizes on any W210 (fenders rolled) same chassis 1996 E320, however, the ride/handling will not be the same because the suspension, ie. Sways, Shock, Dampers are not designed to work well with those size.
08-21-2002, 04:36 PM
#33
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DO YOU WANT TO DRIVE OR JUST LOOK AT YOUR CAR?
Words of Caution that many never realize.
Many aftermarket products and wheels are made or designed strictly for 'show cars' and not suitable to be used on the street or for daily driving, especially in pothole city where I live. Many guys desire 19 & 20 inch wheels on cars and 23 & 24 inch wheels on Trucks with disregrad to the fact that the car in the magazine or on the companies website sits in a showroom or is taken on tour for people to look at only. Sometimes it may be good to be practical and not desire to only have bragging rights with the biggest rims on the block.
Performance matters more than looks for me and many others. 19 or 20 inch rims nor chrome plating will do noting to enhance the performance aspect of most cars. But they are great to look at guys.
Many aftermarket products and wheels are made or designed strictly for 'show cars' and not suitable to be used on the street or for daily driving, especially in pothole city where I live. Many guys desire 19 & 20 inch wheels on cars and 23 & 24 inch wheels on Trucks with disregrad to the fact that the car in the magazine or on the companies website sits in a showroom or is taken on tour for people to look at only. Sometimes it may be good to be practical and not desire to only have bragging rights with the biggest rims on the block.
Performance matters more than looks for me and many others. 19 or 20 inch rims nor chrome plating will do noting to enhance the performance aspect of most cars. But they are great to look at guys.
08-21-2002, 04:49 PM
#34
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1997 C230
the total gross weight of vehicle does play another important part of cars handling and so does the track (F&R) and many other things. Not just only the suspension components and tires/wheels.
i say keep it original is the best bet!
i say keep it original is the best bet!
08-23-2002, 09:17 PM
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C63 / ////AMG
Here's my '94 C280 with the 17" AMG Monoblock II's
Originally posted by beemaze
I have a '94 C280 with AMG Monoblocks II in 17X7.5 et35 on 225/45-17's all around. Looks good. If you don't lower it, you won't have to flare the fenders.
Don't have any pics right now, but can e-mail you a few in the next few days (after I clean my car
I have a '94 C280 with AMG Monoblocks II in 17X7.5 et35 on 225/45-17's all around. Looks good. If you don't lower it, you won't have to flare the fenders.
Don't have any pics right now, but can e-mail you a few in the next few days (after I clean my car
08-24-2002, 08:16 AM
#37
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1997 C280
Beemaze
Nice pic of your 94 C Class.. I would like to ask, Is your ride harder as you change the tire dimensions (less rubber) seems to be almost a low profile on the rim. Also, is there any rubbing of the tire on the fender ? That is the exact look Iam looking for in my C Class, with the same rim. I like Bridgestone tires, what brand and size are on those rims ? I see you also have tints.. I know I want the lightest tint possible on my car, what is on yours ? The clear markers also look nice. Iam going to try and put a pic up of my car... I've done nothing to it yet. Just trying to get my ideas together...also, my pic isnt that clear. Its all that I have for now until I take some more with my digital camera.
Nice pic of your 94 C Class.. I would like to ask, Is your ride harder as you change the tire dimensions (less rubber) seems to be almost a low profile on the rim. Also, is there any rubbing of the tire on the fender ? That is the exact look Iam looking for in my C Class, with the same rim. I like Bridgestone tires, what brand and size are on those rims ? I see you also have tints.. I know I want the lightest tint possible on my car, what is on yours ? The clear markers also look nice. Iam going to try and put a pic up of my car... I've done nothing to it yet. Just trying to get my ideas together...also, my pic isnt that clear. Its all that I have for now until I take some more with my digital camera.
08-24-2002, 10:15 AM
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2003 C180k Avantgarde SE Sport Auto
Here's a pic of my car, The Rims are standard and pretty nice for standard wheels . It's a, 1999 C200 Sport Auto, Obsidian Black.
The wheels are 16"
http://www.geocities.com/ale2large/Merc.html
The wheels are 16"
http://www.geocities.com/ale2large/Merc.html
Last edited by Aletank; 08-24-2002 at 10:20 AM.
08-24-2002, 10:38 AM
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C63 / ////AMG
Originally posted by bklynz00
Beemaze
Nice pic of your 94 C Class.. I would like to ask, Is your ride harder as you change the tire dimensions (less rubber) seems to be almost a low profile on the rim. Also, is there any rubbing of the tire on the fender ? That is the exact look Iam looking for in my C Class, with the same rim. I like Bridgestone tires, what brand and size are on those rims ? I see you also have tints.. I know I want the lightest tint possible on my car, what is on yours ? The clear markers also look nice....
Beemaze
Nice pic of your 94 C Class.. I would like to ask, Is your ride harder as you change the tire dimensions (less rubber) seems to be almost a low profile on the rim. Also, is there any rubbing of the tire on the fender ? That is the exact look Iam looking for in my C Class, with the same rim. I like Bridgestone tires, what brand and size are on those rims ? I see you also have tints.. I know I want the lightest tint possible on my car, what is on yours ? The clear markers also look nice....
To answer a few of your questions:
1) The above profile is definitely low profile. You will almost always sacrifice ride quality, in this case not much.
2) There is no rubbing at all. I have not lowered the car as I learned from prior experiences with a 300E that not only may there be rub (without the fenders being flared), but your front end may scrape on the curb and steep driveways.
Another disadvantage with 17" wheels are potholes. I've chipped the clear coat in a couple of places with some nasty potholes in downtown L.A. (I've noticed you're from N.Y.)
3) The tires are (and no flames please) Falken GR-B's in 225/45-ZR17. At the time of purchase, I didn't know anything about tires, so that's what they sold me with the wheels (package deal). They're noisy, but dry handling is good. Wet handling (it rarely rains in SoCal) is sub par. They've last me almost 3 years (about 30,000 miles) with medium-hard driving. I was thinking of purchasing the Bridgestone Pole Positions next as my rears are almost down to the treadwear indicators.
4) The tint is "medium". You can go for a "light" tint if that is what you're looking for. Some car's medium tint appears darker than others depending on your interior. My interior is beige, so it doesn't appear that dark. My S500 is a darker shade of beige and it appears darker but is the same "medium" shade.
IMHO, go for the AMG's. If you don't like those take a look at Brabus, Carlsson, Lorinser - they all make nice wheels that compliment your Benz.
08-24-2002, 11:59 PM
#40
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2002 C320
Those AMG monoblocks will not rub, even if you lower the car (you saw them on my SLK at the gtg...i lowered the car using AMG springs)...i have staggered ones, and they won't rub either (the rears are 1" wider..just don't put those on the front! ). Even with 18x7.5's all around, it will be fine (dwang had those sized rims on his C230k at our gtg in June). I like the wider lip in the rear, but the only problem is that you have to get 2 different sized tires, and you can't rotate them.
If you question which rims will fit w/o rubbing, try calling Luke @ Tire Rack...you can also go to their website and try some AMG rims on your car...
but again, if you live in NY, prepare to dent rims..even at 17". I would suggest going back to the stock rims for the winter.
<img src=http://www.jimmyhwang.com/slk/slk1.jpg>
). Even with 18x7.5's all around, it will be fine (dwang had those sized rims on his C230k at our gtg in June). I like the wider lip in the rear, but the only problem is that you have to get 2 different sized tires, and you can't rotate them.If you question which rims will fit w/o rubbing, try calling Luke @ Tire Rack...you can also go to their website and try some AMG rims on your car...
but again, if you live in NY, prepare to dent rims..even at 17". I would suggest going back to the stock rims for the winter.
<img src=http://www.jimmyhwang.com/slk/slk1.jpg>
Last edited by SLK Boy; 08-25-2002 at 12:01 AM.
08-25-2002, 04:57 AM
#41
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This is my ride with 17" AMG Monoblock on it. Looks stock and perfectly fit! If you want the best of your MB, get AMG, either 17" (like mine) or 18" (if you think bigger is better).
:p
:p
08-25-2002, 05:18 AM
#43
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1996 C36 AMG, 1995 Volvo 850 Turbowagon
Originally posted by SLK Boy
The 17" AMGs i have are actually quite heavy, compared to some other rims. But they have been known to be very strong as well.
The 17" AMGs i have are actually quite heavy, compared to some other rims. But they have been known to be very strong as well.
strong? yes...would u believed i spun and smashed the left front suspension in (very expensive to repair, not to mention slightly bent frame), and yet, the amg (c36) wheel monoblock was still ok...looked a little scratched but the wheel still looked round. if i had done that to my volvo 850 17" volans, i'm sure it would've been gone
08-25-2002, 05:39 AM
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1996 C36 AMG, 1995 Volvo 850 Turbowagon
i had a friend who had a 95 c280 (oh wait, he made it c28...and told his mom the 0 fell off , silly) w202 with amg body kit and 17x7.5 monoblocks (7.5 rear also, not 8.5) just like the c36. he went with dunlop 8000 225-45-17 and said it was great, but he rubbed when he turns full lock...i seem to remember amg opened/flared the wheel well going from the c280-->c36. his car actually looks exactly like the one above, except plus body kit
as for large wheels and lower profile tires, they don't lower the car's center of gravity. when u go from 15 -> 17", u should maintain the same overall diamter...if that's the case, then u should have relative same height.
mb produces the stiffest chassis (and slightly heavier cars compared to similar counterparts from other makes)...so, given the stiff chassis, mb has placed relatively benign suspension settings and thus are known for excellent ride quality. going from 15" or 16" to 17" or even 18" isn't so bad, because the less give in the tire doesn't quite affect the chassis...it doesn't resonate each bump into the chassis as much. u see lots of benz with large-*** rims and tires...but u don't see much of other makes (well, it could also be that mb owners are also rich and can afford 18+" sizes ). in japan, u do c a bit more large japanese sedans with huge rims, almost too large to the point where it's ridiculous...roads there are so much better...but of course, u pay $20-$100 bucks u.s. to use their freeways..
, silly) w202 with amg body kit and 17x7.5 monoblocks (7.5 rear also, not 8.5) just like the c36. he went with dunlop 8000 225-45-17 and said it was great, but he rubbed when he turns full lock...i seem to remember amg opened/flared the wheel well going from the c280-->c36. his car actually looks exactly like the one above, except plus body kitas for large wheels and lower profile tires, they don't lower the car's center of gravity. when u go from 15 -> 17", u should maintain the same overall diamter...if that's the case, then u should have relative same height.
mb produces the stiffest chassis (and slightly heavier cars compared to similar counterparts from other makes)...so, given the stiff chassis, mb has placed relatively benign suspension settings and thus are known for excellent ride quality. going from 15" or 16" to 17" or even 18" isn't so bad, because the less give in the tire doesn't quite affect the chassis...it doesn't resonate each bump into the chassis as much. u see lots of benz with large-*** rims and tires...but u don't see much of other makes (well, it could also be that mb owners are also rich and can afford 18+" sizes
). in japan, u do c a bit more large japanese sedans with huge rims, almost too large to the point where it's ridiculous...roads there are so much better...but of course, u pay $20-$100 bucks u.s. to use their freeways..
Last edited by steve s; 08-25-2002 at 05:44 AM.
08-25-2002, 02:48 PM
#47
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Check out (Thats MY Ride) on this forum those are 18' rear 9.5 245/40 front 8.5 225/40 looks great and i live in NY had them for 2 months and no bubles on tires and no dents on wheels. But they wasnt cheep $4000 with tires.
