Justinius7

It amazes me, how there is such controversy between the 230 and 240 owners.

I am sure most of us test drove the 230, 240, and the 320 before making our decision. We each chose our vehicle based on price/comfort/power.

If you lay all 3 models on a track and go at it... Anything is possible...
A 320 can miss a shift and loose the race
A 240 could have left the auto on "C" or "W"
A 230 may be out on a hot day, and the air-cooler may be over-worked

THEY ARE ALL EXCUSES!!!!!

WHO cares who has the faster car, they are all pretty much equal. A second here / a half second there. I believe we all have cars capable of hitting the 135 mph governor (and a lot safer than a civic)

Now if we were driving a Viper and racing a Vette or NSX or 911 or something made to haul @ss, then we would have a forum to discuss.

jan ken po

Bravo. I can't believe a 3 page debate over 1/2 a sec. Were this a "racing" forum, it would be understandable. These are both nice, quick little cars period. Besides, all of us always drive the speed limit right?

delbomber

It's not about which car is faster, it's about maintaining reality...and it's fun presenting rational, factual responses to bogus arguments. You don't see 230 owners being rowdy about anything else, do you?

Ok, enough...this horse is dead and I'm done beating it.

Cheers all.

amdeutsch

Now even the driver of the 240 is heavier than one person on the average in the 230.

Let me get something straight about your idea of fairness as you have posted and maintained: Your car must be lighter, have more hp and preferrably a stick. Whereas the other car must be heavier, less powerful and be an auto. Does that about some it up?

Frankly by that logic you should be able to beat the heavier 320 with an auto since the weight of it will negate the hp advantage.

jedcred

It's really not a matter of racing prowess. It's more of a problem of the blind insisting of 230k owners that their cars should be faster versus the stubborn insisting of 240 owners that 240s can beat 230ks all day long, both without much real proof. As I said earlier, I'm personally open to the posibility. However, I don't appreciate proof that proves nothing. And, as the numbers somewhat show (courtesy of delbomber; I'm on your side too!) it doesn't make sense. As the story goes, the tortise can beat the hare if the hare is too lazy to get up and race. Since that isn't the case here, we wonder what the real story is.

delbomber

How can you hold a car's stock weight against it????? It's part of what makes it faster! Handicapping it by adding an additional 5% load is NOT the way to figure out which car is faster. Part of the reason the C230 is quicker is because it is lighter...straight out of the factory. Sorry, the 240 is just heavier, fact of life. Comparing stock to stock, shouldn't all variables be the same???

My response to you has nothing to do with these cars, but your sense of logic.

Cheers.

inFiniTE LooP

the way the C240 pulls away makes me think that weight has little to do with it. but from what my own experience is, it's because of the parameters of the test, had this been done at lower speeds, say anywhere from 0-80 mph i believe the C230 would have won, but once you start exceeding 80, i think the rawness of the V6 overpowers the forced induction supercharger (especially if this were due to heatsoaking). just my speculation...

delbomber

Yeah, at this point I'm finished arguing about the two cars...and more baffled by people's belief that one can apply different standards of weight pulling (e.g. passengers) and expect a scientifically sound result. Any results under this glaring condition are complete garbage.

Let me ask you...ok, I don't want to drag this on forever so only answer if you have a true refutation...but let me ask...if you had two pieces of rope and you wanted to know which was stronger, would you apply a 10 lb force to one and 15 to the other? Of course not. You would apply the same amount of force to each until one snapped. If you wanted to prove who was worse, women or men drivers, would you put the woman on a straight away from all curbs, parked cars, and pedestrians and the man on a straight, but that straight happens to be in Manhattan named 8th Avenue??? Lol, of course not! Why, then, would you exert different loads on two cars you are trying to test as STOCK? Once you change one variable you might as well change them all. You won't prove a damn thing.

I don't trust any numbers other than those obtained independently, by professionals. After that, any car driven by a **** poor driver can be beaten by anything...well, almost.

ddrango

All I can say is great friggen video. The K is fast, but the 240 has better accel in the top end. MBZ wouldn't sell a slower car for more money. They definately know what they are doing. We all have great cars.

schwarzwagen

yeah, uh hu. that's it. fool. both cars WERE equally equiped and not modified.

schwarzwagen

because you can't explain away reality?

schwarzwagen

that's delbomber logic for you.

CynCarvin32

amdeutsch

i think one of the prerequisites to post in this forum is to check logic at the door and post whatever comes to mind.

the cars were equal and the only difference was the fact that one car had a stock 1.8k I-4 motor while the other had the stock 2.6L V6.

some people may not be able to swallow this but with they too will accept the fact that the C230k is indeed slower.

schwarzwagen

exactly, the c230 lost so badly, that the camera mans extra weight was not an issue.

we started one race from 40, you cant really stop on a freeway safely. obviously. however, the c240 is much faster, so even if the c230 gets a fender on the 240 (which it does from 0-60) the c240 pulls past the c230 after 60 (from 0) in convincing fashion.

CynCarvin32

ok ok let me get this straight

there is skill involved in taking your right foot and pushing it into the kickdown switch and leaving it there for a while?

60% driver? this is not road racing.... this is the most simple thing ever... a race where the only variable is the car.

schwarzwagen

this is why we didnt bother getting around to posting this video for some time. the video was shot in feb.

we knew that no one would believe it anyway. the c240 was a loaner car from a stealership, it was unmodified. no cams, no filters, no chip. both cars were automatics, minimizing the chances of human error, the c240 is conclusively faster.

cyncarvin, wasn't there a passenger in the c240? i can't remember, its been so long.

CynCarvin32

I dont think there was a second person in the C240. But the C240 has a bigger spare wheel and is heavier to begin with so this should be a non issue. But not 100% I know I was in the C230k and it had 2 people in it.

CynCarvin32

Yes Jim you are correct. I came into this forum to make false claims and to cause trouble. I am not a trusted forum member and I have an ulterior motive. The C230k was driven by its owner and the C240 was a loaner car.

I know my car is stock (id never spend a cent on that lease car ... there is little to no ROI on that expenditure spend 3k and have a 7.3 second car! Woo Woo) and I doubt enterprise put a kleemann blower and or a RENNtech performance bits on one of their 160 loaners at the dealership in question.

As far as my credibility goes I should not have to justify myself here. I have many hours (or years) of seat time in basically all current MB’s (and many out of production cars). In many other forums I have been a valuable addition to discussions and have conducted unbiased testing and research on various cars and modifications. I doubt anyone else knows more about wheel and tire fitments for the W203 (2001-2004’s that is -- 05 cars are slightly different) or the chassis dynamics of all the current performance oriented MB models. For the most part I know what I am saying.

These videos show freeway pulls and this style of racing takes driver skill, grip, and road surface out of the equation. The night was very cool so heat soaking was not a serious issue. I hope my C230k functions well when it is 57 degrees out. Lets go do this again on a hot summers night when it is still 95 degrees out at 2 am (in the desert). I bet the C230k is even slower.

schwarzwagen

that's right. my mistake. i forgot that we had the 2 chase cars watching out for police.

1Lop2K5C

you kept saying that the C240 has a bigger spare tire, published specs showed that the C240 is 80lbs heavier than the C230, if you weigh as much as the driver of the C240, then that extra person in your car should put the c230 about 60-70 heavier ? correct ? I'm not denfending any cars, just trying to get an understanding.

Jim Banville

Okay, so which of you guys (CynCarvin32 & Schwarzwagen) drives a C230K?

delbomber

Would you stop rationalizing? If every car had to be the same weight before its performance was measured you'd see carrera's going 0-60 in 10 seconds. My god, what is so difficult to understand? Horsepower per pound is part of DESIGN, once you start messing with that it you throw everything off...if you can't understand this, then there is no reasoning with you. The spare tire is part of the stock 240. An extra passenger is NOT part of the stock 230. If you want to ignore my Newtonian Motion example using INDEPENDENT test results to believe the C240 is faster then go ahead and bank on that slim chance, because I've made my case, proven my point beyond a reasonable doubt...but stop perpetuating the weight issue. If you think this way then it's not even worth trying to convince you otherwise...I thought I was appealling to your logic, but this added-load issue is demonstrating a lack thereof.

No one is saying you pre-determined the results...but drag racing is NOT the way to measure performance of a vehicle...a vehicle/driver combination perhaps, but not a vehicle. That should be done over and over by the same person (like the PROFESSIONAl results I used do). Are you so arrogant as to believe all the publications in the world are wrong and this one isolated test is representative of all cars? Of course you're not, but you're coming across that way.

Again, not arguing which is faster, just arguing against your completely unscientific method and logic.


Cheers.

CynCarvin32

very true the C230k could have been 40-60 lbs heavier. I recall gas being near equal. I put "some" fuel into the C230k but the C240 had "more" gas. when it comes down to being this picky with fuel, we are trying to split hairs.

Those races had the C240 gaining on a 5-7 car lead and then passing and driving ahead by a solid 7 cars lengths. This is not something that 40-60 lbs could cause.

I have run my SL55 and E55 against each other and the E pulls maybe 1/2 to 1 car length by 155 (60-155) in a race like that the number of passengers could have something to do with the outcome but these races were clear cut in my mind.

CynCarvin32

all this bs from a man who calculated the performance figures and the subsequent rates of acceleration form totally different tests (different testers, different locations, different conditions). for a man trying to be logical you have far to many vairables. my testing is on the same road at the same time with 2 cars with roughly the same weight.

say what you wish but your testing is done on paper, is full of unknowns, and has little to no impact on the topic at hand.

maybe if I feel like risking my rights to drive in california once again, I will put my racing camera mount in the C230k and do the testing all over again with two full tanks of gas and only the driver in each car.

let me guess you want us to weigh in first in an effort to see which driver is a bigger fat @ss.

CynCarvin32

The car is mine.