DevoX

Hey guys,

I am about to pull the trigger on a new C230K. I've got a few questions that I am sure I could eventually locate on the board, but I am hoping someone might be kind enough to answer for me.

First, I have a large sub enclosure that I've had in my Grand Cherokee. I built the enclosure and it is virtually entirely self contained (500W amp, dual 12's). After reading these forums, I see there's some cause for concern when it comes to the factory system. I plan on keeping the factory head unit. Now, the question is... since one of the packages includes the "premium" system with the faux sub-woofer in the rear passenger side panel... how difficult a task will it be to simply bypass this gear and run the power line, grounds, and signal leads into my own gear?

Second, does the factory CD changer support CD-R/RW playback (not MP3, just CD-Audio)?

Regarding mods... I don't wish to replace the exhaust system, if I did I have connections in the Jeep world that can work me out something totally custom. So, for the time being... I am considering one of the replacement pulleys and the ASE performance chip. Are these mods worthwhile? The consensus seems to be that the pulley itself makes a marked difference, but how about the pulley and the ASE chip? Is the ASE chip worthless?

Winter driving... has anyone driven these in snow yet? I know the vehicle is not AWD and it certainly is not the QuadraDrive I had in my Jeep, but it is RWD with traction control. How well does this vehicle work in the snow?

That's about it for my questions... hopefully the dealer will find the one I want and I'll be ready to join the "Benz revolution"...

-- Robert

Pweb

Absolutely

preyx

Regarding pulley/chip replacement, both produce some noticable difference in performance, but I'm not sure how much. Visit the thread titled "Can someone explain how the pulley . . ." for more info on that. What some people recommend on that thread (if you have the money) is a combination of pulley, chip, intake filter, and intercooler change.

As for the winter driving, I believe that the Benz should be able to handle snow driving no sweat, even if it's just a FR car. The built-in traction control and ABS system is designed to handle virtually all situations, snow being one of them. And if you get the automatic gearbox, it comes with a winter driving mode that starts the car in 2nd gear instead of first to prevent you from digging your tires into the snow.

VoyagerDude

The CD cganger works with CD-Rs but NOT CD-RWs.

VoyagerDude

Worked great for me last winter in the city as well as during numerous ski trips. Proper winter tires are essential (I used Michelin Pilot Alpins).

Lynn

If I were going to start modifying the sound system, I would not but a car with the Bose package. It uses non-standard ipedance speakers. From experimenting with my Bose, the bass module seams to be wired into the rear speakers. Turning the fader forward all the way eliminates any output from the bass module.

According to what I have read here, the MB changer will play CD-R's but not CD-RW's.

I didn't know that ASE was making chips for the coupe, but 13 hp for $800 is very weak. Check out Upsolute chips. http://www.upsolute.com/eng/ They already have a file to work with the larger pulley. GIAC is also developing a chip for use with the larger pulleys.

If you are getting the C7 package, the tires used with that package are absolutely useless in the snow and ice. You will need to buy wheels and snow tires. I bought a cheap set alloy wheels and Bridgestone Blizzaks. As a result of that purchase, there was no snow or ice in St. Louis last year. Steel wheels are available for use with snow tires.

DevoX

Thanks for the info!

I would not be using the Bose amp. I have a 500W Orion that I use to power my dual 12's. I'll have to find an alternate way to tap into the source signal. Probably just tap from the rear's and run new cables.

As for the tires... it appears that Dunlop makes "Winter Sport" tires that are a perfect replacement for the factory 17's. Any word about these?

And the chips, that's for that link. It looks like they have a better option for the 230 at a better price. The problem is getting it there to have it installed or finding someone capable of installing it here. I know how to solder and work with electronics, but that stuff is surface mount... lordie.

-- Robert

Lynn

I have heard good things about those Dunlops. Tirerack has comparisons of all the winter tires they carry. You might want to look at that. The preferred snow tire size for the car is 205/55-16, but the 17's will work. You might consider cheap alloys or the steelies ($49 each). Those C7's cost $300 apiece to replace.

young

steel wheels w/ snow tires are also very effective as anti-snow weather weapons... w/ the added advantage of being very ugly

i was going to get the dunlops, but tirerack told me that the blizzaks were much better. who knows? i wasn't able to test it... see comment above.

galaxygrrl

OK, I don't want to buy steelies (seeing Tommy's scared me, I'm to vain :p) or for that matter another set of tires. If the lemon law suit works out, can I use chains with the C7 tires?

TIA

Lynn

Nope, they're too wide. The chain might hit the fenders. No chains on anything wider than the standard 205/55 R 16 tires. See page 374 of the Sportcoupe Operators Manual.

galaxygrrl

thanks! (even if it's bad news )

Seems odd to me that MB would sell tires and wheels that you can't use chains on. I don't have a choice on whether to use snow tires or chains. You go to the mountains in the winter time and the police stop you and do a wheel check to see of you have chains. If you don't have 'em they make you buy them. I just wonder if you buy the little bead type of chains whether they would hit the fender.

Beth

DevoX

I must say, I am very torn about this purchase...

I have the opportunity to lease another Grand Cherokee, a vehicle which I absolutely love in every way... a big V8, sub 8 second 0-60... power and 4x4. But on the other hand, there's a svelte little Mercedes-Benz that is clearly a very finely crafted machine, with plenty of speed and much better handling...

Interior wise, the build quality is the same really...

With the Jeep, I can continue to totally dominate when it comes to going anywhere... over rocks, through mud, etc. Yeah, I do this in my Jeep. I don't just pound pavement.

With the Mercedes, I can weave around traffic, drive fast and stay planted to the ground. I can feel the road better and get tremendous amounts of satisfaction from just simply driving.

The Jeep sucks down petrol like nobody's business while the MB daintily sips away at the dino juice. (Really, my GC gets about 10mpg in the city).

I am really, really torn between the two. I know I shouldn't ask for advice here, this is a Mercedes forum afterall... but my decision is so hard. The leases on both are within my budget and both vehicles are equally attractive to me.

Any advice?

-- Robert

Mike T.

Don't get the Jeep Canyonero, get the car.

Here is my opinion: I hate so-called SUVs, they are a blight. Unless you ABSOLUTELY NEED one for off-road use weekly (no I do not mean gravel or dirt roads and tracks, virtually ANY car can do those, just ask me about it) and live in a severe winter area, 4WD is of limited benefit.

If you do not drive off-road weekly but live in a wintry area and are scared of RWD, get a 4WD car like the upcoming C 4MATIC or a Quattro. They will run rings around any SUV in those conditions.

SUVs are absolute dogs in overall winter driving compared to a good FWD car. I used to live in the Kootenay region of British Columbia and drove a Blazer and an Explorer SUV as a work vehicle. My FWD Peugeot 405 was in every way a superior car in these conditions, with the possible exception of acceleration from rest. It had 4 snow tires, as did the SUVs. The 405 braked, turned and stopped immeasurably better than the SUVs.

To top it off, most SUVs have archaic 4WD systems. The best 4WD is typified by the Quattro system (the TT excepted), typically with Torsen diff in the rear, viscous couplings, Torsen or the electronic equivalent in the middle. Most SUVs have WWII vintage part-time systems that are so crude they don't even have a centre differential or any form of limited slip in the rear. Worse still is the "4WD Auto" systems with their 100% RWD or FWD bias until the wheel slips, after which some power is shunted to the other axle. Hello, evil winter handling! I had this in an Explorer. I guess the Quadra-trac is one of the more technically rigourous systems available in an SUV, but then you have to live with the ugly looks, the "Hi, I'm destroying the planet" image and poor handling/braking.

If you're serious about off-roading, get a Lada Niva or a Unimog for that only, and a C for everything else.

In the end, if you insist on a Jeep, make sure you equip it with one of those bumper stickers that say "I'm changing the global climate, ask me how".

preyx

If money isn't an issue here, the best advice I can give you is to go with whichever car seems to make you feel happier when driving. Happy drivers make happy cars, because they like to take care of them. I'm not quite sure if happiness is the only emotion you should be feeling, but seriously, go with whatever car feels right for you.

And if you still can't decide... let me cast the deciding vote: C-Coupe (^_^)

awaken

Cool advise :-). afaik Ladas not available in US. I saw it in BC though

viper

You better rethink this one. I don't think you really know what you want at this point. These vehicles are as different as night and day. If your priority is off-road you should not be looking at the coupe or any car for that matter. Decide whats important to you and then make a sensible decision.

peet

Don't write off a car with proper winter tires and a good stability program... mine with Arctic Alpin's outdid a grand cherokee in the snow.

Don't know why, but the jeep spun and spun, the car just glided right over the stuff. Of course, the lowered front made for a nice snow plow but what the hey!

Besides, the best thing about getting out of an SUV was losing that abnoxious rolly-polly ride. Give me small, tight ride any day!

Mike T.

You're right, Nivas were available in Canada between 1978 and 1998. My Dad bought one new in 1997 when he lived in the Kootenays (bad winters and GREAT off-roading opportunities) - it had a 1.7 engine with GM monopoint injection. It was fabulous off-road and rough on the road. He sold it when he got his (our) C Coupé.

AndrewK

I could not agree more with every word Mike said. These SUVs are really disgusting and are of very little practical value MOST of the time. But it depends on what is important to you. Do you want an extremely competent vehicle in every way or do you want marginal road vehicle that can run reasonably fast in straight line but can go over some rocks. In my book the 230 is the clear choice. As far as build quality, I know that recently Mercedes havent been right on top of it, but Jeep is among the worst possible in build quality and reliability. Last time I checked Consumer Reports the Jeep was -144% on reliability and the C was around +15-20%.

Lynn

I had the extreme displeasure of driving a Lada very briefly in Morocco. That thing is the biggest piece of automotive pschit ever built. We were doing a cooperative project with the Moroccan government, and we were supposed to supply rental 4x4's. We got a diesel Pajero and a diesel Fourrunner, and two Ladas. The Moroccans felt so badly for us, that they scrounged up a new Land Rover Defender to replace on of the Ladas. The remaining Lada was on driven in Rabat with exteme reluctance by the woman it was assigned to. The Fourunner was very nice, except when the clutch failed in a place I where I wasn't supposed to be. All I'll say about that is that being an employee of the UN or being attached to the UN is a license to STEAL.

I wonder if I can get the GSA to by G-wagons instead of Suburbans.

AndrewK

I just checked CR again... the Jeep is -91% but was singled out among a group of 5 of the least reliable cars (along with the W208 CLK ) The C-Class is right on average (the W202 was always slightly plus). Also JD Power rated the C-Class one rating higher in mechanical quality and interior fittings quality. Reliability and durability is just one more thing to consider.

EDIT: I just was looking at JD Power again and found the Sindelfingen plant received an award for excellent initial quality!

DevoX

A lot of Jeep hating in here... it's surprising, it honestly is.

-- Robert

viper

Give us a break. This is a MB forum. To be fair go post your question in a Jeep forum and see how they treat you.

tommy

I think that people are just happy to have a comparison where the MB is the more reliable choice.

If you ask for opinions, you'll get them. As Viper said, there's a little bias here. Which you should have expected.