Buellwinkle

There's someone on the SLK forums that had problems with their Kleemann pulley ring and is selling the kit. He's asking $550 but if you are interested, offer him what it's worth to you.

Link to SLK post

Buellwinkle

From what I've heard, two SLK owners bought the Kleemann ring recently. One was Linh and he bought it for his 99 SLK but the pullies are different and that caused problems, Linh now has the correct Kleemann pulley for his car and is very happy and returned the pulley ring. The second was Silke who had a shop put it on his newer SLK (similar to our Coupes). For some reason the screws worked their way lose and he was in a world of hurt. The alternator light came on, it start making all sorts of noises (imagine the metal on metal grind of those screws against the pulley grooves) and he smelled stuff burning. From what I've heard, Kleemann made good in both cases but I don't know the exact details.

If you are looking to get the ring anyway and want a good deal, here's your opportunity although IMHO it pales in comparison to the ASP billet pulley. Also, buyer beware, this ring may have warped or have other damage from the incident, I would make sure that Kleemann will stand behind this pulley in case you run into problems. Also I've been told by Silke that the alternator pulley is different from R170 to W203 but may be exchangable by Kleemann. You don't have to run this pulley but you'll need a 56" belt instead.

Just so you know why pulley kits for older SLK's and C230 Sedans are incompatible I attached this picture. The one taken out of my coupe is on the right.

Buellwinkle

Young, you asked about what happened to the ringy if it was put on or not and whatever, so I gave you the whole story as I know it. It never would have happened if he put a Renntech pulley on

As for loktite, it's an adhesive you put on bolts to keep them from vibrating off. They have different strengths, I know Linh used red loktite which is the strongest but I don't know what Silke used. I can tell you from experience that it lasts a long long time in extreme conditions. Just ask any Harley owner, the entire bikes are assembled with Loktite and nothing vibrates, shakes, rattles more than a Harley. Combine that with the heat generated from an air cooled 1200-1400cc motor and constant exposure to the elements and you can see that the stuff works. There's so much Loktite on Harley/Buells that on my bike, when I went for new tires and the mechanic at the tire shop tried to take off the brake rotor it twisted the socket on his air gun and he sent me back to the Harley dealer to have the tire put on. Don't use red if you want to take it off later.

tommy

Loctite is like the silicone tape that plumbers put on the threads of two pipes that are going to be screwed together, at least in what it's supposed to do.

It's really only an aid in keeping screws fastened; it'll help keep them tight, but it's only as good as the screw that it's keeping tight.

What, are you buying a Kleemann pulley ring now?

Brandon @ Kleemann

We replaced all damaged kit parts with new parts- including the belt.

Upon examination of the ring NONE of the thread holes had a trace of loctite. Anyone even slightly familiar with loctite knows its leaves telltales. You would have to re-tap the threaded hole to eliminate it- this would also leave a telltale of a perfectly clean (no hard coating) thread- niether was the case.

The offset of the SLK ALT pulley is different from the W203. I will not swap out a component of a kit to a third party buyer. ALT pulleys are $40- if the new owner is a C class they can purchase a new ALT pulley.

We have these rings for nearly four years around the world without a sinlge problem- everywhere else but USA has to have the ring installed by a KLEEMANN dealer- see what it gets you?

Only after selling directly to the end user and having unknown shops attempt installations have there been problems.

Its the old saying "guns dont kill people, people do"

Buellwinkle

Arghh! Now there are two Kleemann pulley kits for sale on the SLK forum. What's funny is that most have put in Vaeth or H&S and I've never heard anyone removing them. Two people in the last year put in Kleemann pulley kits and they are for sale.

Brandon @ Kleemann

Need I say it again- GO TO AN AUTHORIZED DEALER- the car will leave running perfectly because they have dynos with AF ratio measuring and the cpability of addressing any issues.

Do you mean to tell me (or infer) that there is no way a component might be bad or out of spec on a 4 year old M111 engine?? There are many items that can be the sources of problems: low signal output from the MAF (MBZ hands these out like candy for the very same reason on NA cars), fuel pump (mine died dropped pressure and volume to bearly running at 7K miles on a NA CLK430), O2 sensor slow, the list goes on....

A few minutes on a handheld tester (the average at home guy wont spend $3K on a tool he'll use twice a year) and many mysteries will be solved- better yet go to MBZ and get a "short test" done with the DAS, reset all adaptives (the battery kill does not wipe them all out). DAS will reveal problems you never kew you had. DAS can also add correction factors for fuel trim rich/lean over the entire operating range of the engine.

EvoSport (nearest authorized dealer to linh) would have dyno'd the car before and after, checked AF ratio and not delivered the car before it was spot on- makes the install price look like a bargain doesnt it?

MagmaSilk

i only mentioned my problem for full disclosure on what i'm selling ...

if i had to guess, id say the reputable shop (the local mb club recommended them) didnt use enuff loctite as he did tell me he used some even before i encountered any problems. later kleemann said he found no traces of loctite. I can only repeat what i was told as of course no one ever did a third-party chemical analysis ... hmmm i wonder if the FBI would be interested.

anyways, i think KLEMANN is good and fair. the ring is well manufactured and fits like a glove. They also quickly replaced my kit and were very prompt w/ two shipping/billing errors i encountered. If i cant sell it i would put it on again (this time w/ plenty of loctite). my only problem is that it really isnt removable in the sense that it can be taken on and off ... my shop had to cut it off loctite or no loctite. And if it is so difficult to install maybe some instructions in the kit would be nice. Not to mention i didnt twist anyones arm for them to sell it to me ... all the dealers i talked to said that it was an easy install and again my shop is very reputable. so if only a kleemann dealer can install it maybe only dealers should be allowed to install it.

but in the end i think everyone acted fairly ... i just got a lil unlucky cause i know i didnt do anything wrong. anyways i'm still selling as i think id rather have new wheels or maybe chrome roll bars ... and im negotiable on price.

Buellwinkle

Brandon,

I think the Evosport install is a bargain. Vadim does good work and knows his stuff. But I can see Linh's point of view and taking his car to Evosport is quite a distance, specially if he coudn't wait for it. The install does appear to be simple and he did install it successfully and it drives fine to me. He's just concerned that the 15:1 fuel/air mix is a bit lean, compared to the 12:1 before the install. Is that normal for a 99 SLK? Will his ECU adapt to it eventually enrichening the mix or do you think there is something else wrong with his car? His car does seem down on power before and after the pulley compared to mine before and after the pulley but then mines a '02 Coupe so it's different.

Brandon @ Kleemann

The MY99's are rated slightly lower that the MY02's- management system changes and a host of other little bits.

The AF ratio is not normal- which has been my point through all these postings- there is something wrong with the car. It needs to be checked with MBZ DAS system, all adaptives reset and correction programming performed if required.

linh

Kleemann,

We all know that, it always easier just to blamed something else rather then admitting it. I know for sure that my car does not have lean problem in stock form because I dynoed it before and after the installation of your alloy pulley. My car has a healthy A/F ratio of 12.5:1!! But we all know now what happen to my A/F ratio after I installed the Kleemann alloy pulley. Let me say it again, it 15.0:1 when the S/C kick-in and it richer itself up to 13.5:1. It needs to be no higher then 14.7:1.
Now, let me ask you about other company kits. Why do many of other kits come with some source of electrical/mechanical (chip & fuel pressure regulator) to aid in delivery fuel? I wonder why other company pulley came with those features, but your kit does not, instead, your kit came with colder plugs to withdraw the heat faster, to help prevent “detonation”. This tell me that you knew about the possibility of “detonation” with your pulley kit or at least you new about the A/F ratio with you pulley are at the limit (14.7:1)
So, are you saying that if I have my pulley install by Evosport, they would be able to fix the lean problem with their “$3000 tools”? If this is true, then make me an appointment with Evosport any day, I’ll be glad to drive up there and pay Evosport to re-install the pulley. But I really doubt that, if Evosport install my pulley, then I don’t have a lean problem because Mark Cummimg also has his “ring” pulley installed on his new C coupe and dyno by Evosport but the A/F ratio were also show lean problem. Mark Cumming corrected the lean problem by installed one step colder plugs (it was his idea to installed a colder plugs, it was not include in the kit) just to help prevent “detonation” but the lean problem were not solve until Upsolute custom made him a chip. Kleemann, how do you explain Mark Cumming lean problem. No body on this forum new about this problem. I found this out through Lanny from Upsolute and then personally ask Mark Cumming through e-mail. Andrew at GIAC also said that on the pre-2000 slk with pulley kit, there’s no way it will run right without remapping the ECU fuel maps. D#ck, at dynospotracing also say that, ECU upgrade is a MUST do when install pulley. My friend Ernee also installed another company pulley kit on his slk and got the same lean problem like mine until he installed GIAC chip from Dynospotracing and the lean problem go away. The funny thing about this was, I knew him for years but he never mention about his lean problem until now I told him about my lean problem. I guess that some people just afraid to talk about it in the forum due to might create a lost of business. I personally believe it differently, you can’t fit the problem if you don’t tell them what the problem is and there’s no better place to tell it then in a public forum if you want to get good attention.
Look, I’m not just an average person when it comes to car. Most people would be so happy with the new found power gain from the pulley and never care to dyno the car because from the way the car performances point of view, it excellent. But until you dyno it, the true will always show.
And Buellwinkle, buddy! Stop adding fire to a burning house! This is not a way to promote a product. I’ll tell it like is it and I’ll tell you again that I suspected your ASP pulley might have the lean problem also based on Mark Cummimg lean problem. If Mark has lean problem with only the ring then the pulley will only be worse. Don’t depend on that so-called “adaptive ECU” to bail you out. So please, do everyone who’s interested in buying the ASP pulley a favor by dyno your car and post the hp/tq. gain with A/F ratio info on this forum. Now that’s how you promotes a products…:>)). See you at the BBQ this Sunday.

MARK CUMMINS

I Had EVOSPORT Install the KLEEMANN (RING) Without ANY Problems!Thank You VADIM!
Evosport Handles The Install on a VERY PROFESSIONAL Basis!

1 Dyno the Car BEFORE The Install...With Proof!

2 Install the KLEEMANN (RING)

3 Dyno the Car Again...With Proof!

I Think That KLEEMANN is Correct on Having The Pulley/RING or any Other Product that They Sell Be Installed ONLY By a AUTHORISED Shop Per KLEEMANN ! Since the KLEEMANN Product is on the Line! Cause you Would not go to SEARS to have it Installed Would YOU? AND Some Back Yard WANNA BE Mechanic
Not Familiar With The Install,NOT Using THE CORRECT TOOLS(FLYWHEEL LOCK) And Torque SPEC? NOT a IMPACT! Might Screw it up and Blame KLEEMANN..Cause they the Installer Did NOT know what he was Doing!...And Then Start Posting Stories ?

I have OVER 20 Plus Years of Porsche And Mercedes Factory training And Have Owned My OWN Repair Shop ..And Knew I Could Do the Install Without any problem But KLEEMANN said Its RECOMMENDED to have it Installed by One of KLEEMANNs Authorised Shops!So I Left it to Evosport..And Im VERY Happy With the Product!

I Will Have the Kleemann Pulley Installed when Its Released
(By EVOSPORT)...
On My Wifes Car!

I Also Have UPSOLUTE Software on the Same car and Upsolute Is a Very Good Company...They Have a Great record on Other cars
So I Felt Good Going With Upsolute! They UPSOLUTE did Several Changes on the Software (DYNO TESTED)And the Last One is VERY Good!...I Have Done Software mods on several Porsches so I was familiar with the Testing..And What to look and watch out for!Thanks Again Lanny!
I also Have Talked to OTHER Software Tuners...And I Still Think UPSOLUTE is The Best Bang !



Btw There is Nothing Wrong With a copy (This is AMERICA)
Its Just I Feel better With The Product ..yes I Paid MORE For it..And Yes I Could Have had a Copy for a LOT LESS!
But Its MY CHOICE...And My MONEY! I Still Think You Get What You Pay For!...ROLEX/TIMEX!
Maybe OLD SCHOOL..Oh Well ...
AND YES I PAID For ALL of This...

Buellwinkle

I don't understand Mark. If you were striving for the "Rolex", why did you buy the absolute cheapest pulley kit on the market at the time from a choice of 8 reputable tuners. I would think if you wanted the Rolex you would have gone Brabus or Renntech, the premier MB tuners but yet you chose a new product from a relatively unknown Danish tuner, why? I think it's because they were the cheapest at $599. Don't feel bad, I would have done the same thing and many have. You just have to get off this denial trip. Besides the ASP is the ONLY billet pulley on the market and is the only one designed and built by a true pulley company, not outsourced by a tuner and certainly not copied from anybody (unless you coun't using specs from the factory pulley as a basis). They never seen any other pulley including the Kleemann or Vaeth until the pulley was already cut. So to me I just don't see the Rolex/Timex issue. I see two Timex's that can do a good job and are of very high quality. I'll leave the Rolex for my wrist.

MARK CUMMINS

CARL,I Bought The KLEEMANN Product Because
1 I Have a Very Good Friend That Works at RENNTECH
And He Told me Things that Made Me Think TWICE about
RENNTECH!

2 I Tried Talking to Brabus and They have there Head So Far up in The Clouds...That made think Twice about BRABUS

3 As Far As 8 other TUNERS Well I Was unaware of Them!

4 I Did Research KLEEMANN and they Have a Geat Track Record
In Europe...So I Felt Good About them

5 As for the CHEAPEST Item.. Well It The CHEAPEST Was The Only OPTION ..at that Time!Since I Did Not wait For the OTHER TUNERS to Build one..Also I Will be Buying The KLEEMANN Pulley To Replace the CHEAP Ring !When Its Done!

6 As For the DENIALTRIP well I STEPPED UP and DID THE MOD !
Cause I Wanted to do other mods..And ENJOY It The Car!

7 I Did Not want to DESIGN a Better/Cheaper Pulley As Im No Longer in the Biz...So Thats Why I Went With KLEEMANN
I Just Wanted a Little More POWER ! OK?

BTW If I May Quote YOU....Quote(But Its LIKE any Other Exotic,You Pay the Price for the Exclusivity)End Quote

Brandon @ Kleemann

Really- have any idea who makes our pulleys? Care to take a guess?

Im wondering why the ASP is solid- I mean, man is that thing ugly.

By the end of the day this whole pulley discussion is bunk-

MARK CUMMINS

KLEEMANN....


By The End of the Day this Whole PULLEY DISCUSSION is Bunk!


WELL SAID!



Thank You!

Buellwinkle

OK, I'll guess, you make them yourself in your own lathe in your garage in Colorado. I know legally they aren't made outside the U.S. or you would be in violation of laws requiring you to show the country of origin on the product and I didn't see that.

BTW, You said you made the holes in your pulley to reduce weight, now it's to make it look pretty?

gab

so my question is:

will kleemann pulley increase the ideal A/F ratio of 12:1 to the dangerous level close to 14:1???

Why is colder plugs removed from the package later on if there exist a running lean situation??

Buellwinkle

I think he would be happy with 14:1, he's getting 15:1. This maybe an older SLK issue as this uses a different ECU. I'll get my car dynoed on Monday and let you know the results as this would be more realistic for our cars. Two German tuners that I know of H&S and Vaeth include a different fuel regulator for the older SLKs to compensate for this. This is an MB part. Since they don't do it on the newer cars, my guess is it's not an issue.

Brandon @ Kleemann

ALMOST- Very close- we actually have the local votech school make them. Its exciting to see the variation in dimensions and coatings when Johhny has been sniffing glue the night before.

:p


Really- you read too much into my attempts at humor. The holes are for reducing mass- the happy byproduct of which is a nice aesthetic. I just think the execution of the ASR pulley lacks any attention to looks- functionality is certainly there.

Brandon @ Kleemann

You should clarify that the "he" you are speaking of is linh- I (perhaps the he you speak of?) dont get these AF ratios on early SLK's- no matter where they are.

Mike T.

It seems to me that the aesthetic of a pulley is completely irrelevant on the C 230 K - a morbidly obese guy will see his ***** more often than you'll see an installed Kompressor pulley.

mdp c230k

I think the looks a purely psychological, no one likes to pay a lot of money for a piece of ugly metal to put on thier beautiful MB! It should show the care in design and manufacturing befitting a fine car such as ours.

Again, what about balance concerns with the pulley. Aren't the crank pulleys harmonically balanced on the stock unit? If so, won't a new pulley upset the balance? On all the engines I've built when the crank/pulley/rods/pistons came back from balancing the pulley usually had some material taken off to balance the system. Does MB do this? Kleemann...Buellwinkle...anyone...?

Lynn

I would very much doubt that MB goes to the trouble of balancing each production engine. As long as each component is within spec, I would think they would just screw it together.


I love these threads. I so enjoy the comedic stylings of Carl, Brandon and Mike.

Buellwinkle

Sorry, that's way over my head. Call Lee at ASP, he's an engineer and can explain it. I know when I asked him they took that into consideration and made it heavier than they could of to maintain a balance between the flywheel and pulley and to dampen some vibrations. In my non-expert opinion, any aftermarket pulley you get that I know of will have different weight (more or less) than the 9lbs factory pulley. I've ridden Harleys for years and that's the most unbalanced engine I know of and it keeps on running. I put a harmonic balancer in mine to smooth it out to save my hands and butt from falling asleep but not to make the crankshaft or pistons last longer.