Class C

I purchased an AMG supercharger from an MB tech, don't ask me how he got it It came out of a c320: the customer puchased an AMG kit from MB and realized that it was too loud so he had it replaced by another one, turns out that's the way they sound.

Purchasing the rest of the parts is no problem, however would I need to get low compression pistons? How about getting better valves?

If I have to do an engine overhaul then forget it. I'll just have a nice AMG paper weight

I realized I will have to get minor things like a faster oil pump and so on.

The MB tech was a good friend of my friend and sold me the charger for less than dinner at a very expensive restaurant

TimmyC230boy

this is above me. But i wouldnt run it at the same boost as the C32, I dont think that engine would handle it.

FrankW

i agree with Timmy

i'm not sure what kind of s/c you have bought, but to run the s/c at 1 bar just like the C32 requires a lot of tuning including High-pressure die-cast alloy cylinder block. Reinforced crankshaft and valvetrain. Alloy heads. Lightweight camshafts and so on. to match the C32 factory engine which is next to impossible if not done by the AMG tech/engineer.

BTW what kind of S/C did you get? is it really the one from the Helical supercharger from the C32?

Buellwinkle

That's a nice supercharger. I don't know if I would worry about damaging the engine so much as Kleemann and HPS sell S/C kits for the MB motors and they seem happy. See what boost they run. You'll need the intercooler and all the plumbing for that including the intake heat exchanger. You may luck out and find a salvaged C32 or SLK32 for those parts.

It sounds like a great project. Keep us all posted and take lots of pictures. Also see if the tech can get you copies of the shop and parts manuals for the C32 so you have an idea of what to do. Also if you need a discount dealer to work with for parts, check Hoehn in Carlsbad, CA. They advertise wholesale MB parts prices to the public in Autoweek magazine.

mdp c230k

What is the diffence between an intercooler and an intake heat exchanger? Doesn't an intercooler server as an intake heat exchanger?

C Class,
The Kleemann kit runs at .5barr without any combustion chamber mods(same pistons, valves, compression ratio). You will need the intake manifold, crank pulley and intercooler with all the plumbing from a C32 or SLK32 which might cost as much as a Kleemann kit alone. If thats the case, get the kit and be sure you are OK.

Lynn

The C32 has a 9:1 compression ratio, while the 2.6L has a 10.5:1 compression ratio. Since the engines have different bores, you will probably have to have pistons custom made. You would likely need new custom camshafts and ECU. Every thing is probably usable, but while you have the engine apart it should be balanced and blueprinted, and the heads should be ported, polished and tested on a flow bench. The intercooler has already been mentioned. Oh, you might need new headers and exhaust system.

Or you could sell the AMG supercharger and take the car to Evosport and have the Kleemann supercharger installed. It likely will be be cheaper and sure as hell will be an easier and quicker installation.

Or sell the AMG supercharger and your car and buy the slightly used C32 over in the C32 forum.

Class C

The supercharger that I got is a kit for a 320 a customer ordered from AMG. That customer spent close to 10k on the kit. I'm not sure how close the engine is between a 320 and a 240, all I know is that thing puts out 15 pounds of boost.

mdp c230k

1 barr is 14.7psi or 1 atmosphere, that is a LOT of boost! Kleemann uses .5barr without mods to the combustion cambers, you could not get away with that at 1barr. You would blow something (head/headgasket, rings, crack block). Get a Kleemann kit!

trench

15 psi + 10.5:1 comp pistons = disaster

Minimum you'll need a new set of pistons. I'd also underdrive the supercharger to deliver about half to a third of that much boost. Do this you could probably get away with no further mods (such as strengthening the bottom end); you'll still need Upsolute to program you a custom ECU with your new parameters.

Cheers, BT

TimmyC230boy

Yes, i would definantly underdrive the SC alot. AT LEAST a 1/3. maybe even half. I wonder if we could put that on a coupe?

Buellwinkle

Our little coupes use a cheap air to air intercooler, air comes out of the S/C into the intercooler and comes out cooler into the intake. The C32/SLK32 has a water/air intercooler. The intercooler has water (or some liquid) cycling through it like your radiator, the cooled water is then routed to a heat exchanger at the intake to remove heat and then cycled back to the intercooler. A intercooler setup like that would probably help out the coupe, specially in the summer but it's more expensive and complicated because of the plumbing, heat exchanger, pump, etc...

mdp c230k

This is wrong! The coupe uses a liquid to air intercooler, just read to specs from MBUSA. I think you might want to do a little more research before you try and make a statement like the above. The intercooler is the heat exchanger. It takes hot air and removes the heat by passing it over colder metal surfaces. These colder surfaces are the 'core' of the intercooler and are maintained by convection (by direct radiation) and conduction (by fluid and an external radiator).

Lynn

Where did you read about a water to air intercooler on the coupes? Mine is most definitely air to air.

WyattEarp

That is a definite ditto. Coupes have air to air intercoolers.

MB-BOB

Sorry, Lynn, the difference between the 3.2L V6 and the 2.6L is the STROKE, not the Bore. The 3.2L has a longer stroke. The cylinder bore diameters are the same in both motors.

Since the AMG S/C is meant for the longer stroke engine, I wonder if this will have some implications (positive or negative) for the shorter stroke 2.6L?

mdp c230k

Right on the MBUSA engine spec page for the C-coupe it claims a liquid to air intercooler! http://www.mbusa.com/brand/container...pec=0&menu=3_0
Take a look. The fact might be that there is an integral fluid that acts like a heat pump within the fins of the intercooler. Through a series of one-way valves a fluid with the right vaporization temperature can be used to move heat energy to fins further from the center of the intercooler allowing a shorter path for the air but giving greater cooling efficiency.

dswildfire

the coupes are liquid/air intercooled, that black box you see that says Mercedes-Benz right next to your grille is the water reservoir, the core is actually that metal box down lower which is connected to the reservoir by black hoses. if you bend down, you can see the core through the front of the car

TimmyC230boy

let the flames begin.

No, that long black box that says Mercedes Benz would be the air filter compartment.

Lynn

More likely is the possiblity that the web page is wrong. Again. Mine is air to air.

I just did a google search for "air to water intercool" I found a lot of good info. Interestingly, air to air is much better for street use according to most of these sites. All the air to water intercoolers have an air to water heat exchanger, a water radiator, electric water pump, water reservior, and related plumbing.

Here is an excerpt from http://www.procharger.com/intercooled.html

"For automotive street applications, air-to-air technology is easy to install, highly effective, extremely reliable since it has no moving parts, and requires no maintenance. Air-to-water intercooler systems, on the other hand, are much more difficult to install as they contain an intercooler, a separate radiator to cool the water, a water tank, and a pump. But probably the biggest drawback to air-to-water on the street is that this technology requires the addition of ice to match the efficiency of air-to-air technology. Additionally, the requirement of ice and the possibility of pump failure or leakage means that air-to-water is also inherently less reliable."

Lynn

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I know where the intercooler is. I found it many months before you did. Now, why don't you remove the screws holding down the top of the "water reservoir" and check the water level? While your at it, you may as well shake the dirt out of your air filter.

mdp c230k

If the 2.6L and the 3.2L both use the same cylinder head then the pistons will be different, as they are rated at the same compression ratio. This is only if the heads are the same, I don't know if they are but it makes sense if the bore is the same. All it would take is a different cam and associated lifters(rocker arms), tappets etc.. The head volume for the 2.6L is 43cc for a 10:1 CR and 53cc for the 3.2L with the same pistons(assuming flat top pistons) you get the idea. So AMG must either use a whole new head or dished pistons to prevent the big bang.

Lynn

The 2.6L has a 10.5:1 compression ratio according to my 2002 C-class brochure. 3.2 is 10:1.

Where did you find the head volumes? I'm sure others would like to know, too. Or did you compute them. Could you provide the equations? Thanks.

mdp c230k

Assuming a flat top piston you divid displacement by # of cylinders to get per cylinder volume. Divid the per cylinder volume by compression ratio and presto you get head volume.

2.6L = 433/10.5 for a volume of 41.23cc
3.2L = 533/10.0 for a volume of 53.33cc

Class C

Learning alot guys!

Once again, The supercharger that I got is for a 320 and did not come out of a C32. However, it was ordered from AMG.

Would I still need an engine overhaul?
Maybe just get a smaller pulley?

Brandon @ Kleemann

That would be a larger pulley. As the SC pulley gets smaller in comparison with the crank, the SC spins faster, providing MORE boost. You would likely want to go the other direction.