KJ-TypeR

WELL PUT Buellwinkle.

I have some questions about your setup...

What Octane gas do you use?
Are you thinking of trying octane booster to see if it will eliminate the need for the ECU to retard timing at high rpm?

Buellwinkle

I run 91 octane because that's all available at the pump in So Cal. As a goof last week, I mixed in a few gallons of 100 octane unleaded racing fuel to see if it made a difference but nothing I can feel or hear. I calculated it out so it came out to the 93 octane that other states can get. I heard a rumor that California maybe getting 93 octane back. One can only hope. Keep in mind that you can run higher octane fuel but it won't make a difference to your a/f ratio but it will keep it from pulling back timing if it starts to ping. The problem is that at $4.50 a gallon, the chip is probably a better long term solution to more power but it's not necessary for you to enjoy the extra punch any pulley will give you. It is fun. What's nice for me since I have the 6-spd, I don't have to downshift as much to pass, the power is there.

linh

Man !!! It so difficult to stay away from all this but decided to put my energy to good use by finding the solution to my lean problem. I have asked Lanny from Upsolute to custom me a "chip" based on my dyno chart and also contacted Mr. Vaeth from Germany asking him if he can sell me a 3.8 bar fuel pressure regulator and it look like that i'll have my Upsolute custom chip install this friday (Buellwinkle will be there with me). And Mr. Vaeth promised that he will re-adjust an extra fuel pressure regulator for me on his next pulley kit order. I also contacted Wetterauer to see if i can buy their fuel pressure regulator but was turn down and refer me to my dealer to do the adjustment on the fuel pressure regulator. I also contacted my dealer and they said that they're not in the business of tuning car even those my car is no longer under warranty !!!

There's only one way to solve this problem and it a great way to promote a product is to post the dyno chart showing hp and tq gain WITH the A/F ratio. I'll keep you guys update on my find a solution to fix my lean problem (but not dangerously like when i first thought). Btw, well said, Buellwinkle.

peterrrrrr

Well after reading 8 pages of this over the last few days I not sure what has been accomplished, except we are now aware of who doesn't like who. Is the A/F ratio an issue or isn't it.
I am a new member, not a mechanic, and don't understand a lot of the terminology used in the last 8 pages, however I must admit I have learned a lot.
On page 1 I asked a real basic question that is of interest to many of us new owners that are looking for ways to improve performance.
Does anybody have feedback from a MB DEALER on warranty issues due to pulley modifiactions ? I already know that the Dealer would have to prove that the modification was the direct cause for a serious engine problem. I am looking for real world dealer feedback or do you all remove the mods before you take your cars in ?

Lynn

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that any A/F readings taken by a probe in the tailpipe will be inaccurate because of the catalytic converter. I think A/F readings should be done before the converter. Doesn't the O2 sensor does this with the A/F ratio obtained with an OBDII reader?

I was talking to someone familiar with Porsche fuel injection, and he suggested using 24 lb/hr injectors instead of changing the fuel regulator. Ford/Visteon injectors might work because they are a Bosch design. There is also an aftermarket adjustable fuel regulator, which should be usable. If anyone wants to know the brand, I'll ask about it.

Buellwinkle

Peterrrr, anytime you go beyond what MB sold you, you are at risk. People put aftermarket stereos, Xenon lights, lowering springs, pulleys, chips.... Anything you do to your car maybe suspect on a warranttee claim. Did Xenon lights short your wiring, did a new head unit burn out the speakers, did the lowering springs cause suspension parts to break. So if you have a problem, to reduce the risk that the dealer will blame you and your mod for causing the problem, IMHO it would be prudent to remove the mod, also to see if putting everything back to stock corrects the problem. I would not take anything out just for a standard Service A or B because they likely won't see the pulley or chip as they are not very visible mods. I would not be so bold as to post it on the internet until after the problem is fixed as I'm sure MB has spys that comb these forums. As for real world warrantte problems on my car, I can tell you that Circuit ****ty replaced my speakers while the radio was turned on and shorted the radio. I explained what happened and they replaced the radio under warranttee. Dealers get paid to fix your car by MB, they would not go out of their way to turn you in unless they were out to get you. Get to know your service rider, buy him donuts, he'll take care of you if feces happens.

Yes, to me the A/F ratio is an issue but not a serious one and Linh and I are looking for ways to reduce it. Like I've said, it's more of a power loss issue than a engine problem. Remember, 8 companies make a pulley for the coupe and not one has acknowledged or addressed it including biggies like Renntech and Brabus. It will likely be addressed by Upsolute, GIAC and Renntech in their chips as they get more familiar with the C230 and the various pulley kits.

To me, the fun I get out of having a pulley (any pulley) is worth the slight chance that something will happen. It's just a different car with the pulley, you press the pedal and it really goes. I can't imagine anything I can do to my car for $350 that's that much fun.

Scylas

Buellwinkle thanks for the information, you answered up most of my questions and in a good manner...

dswildfire

i spoke to my service rep and mechanic for this, same people my parents have had for the last 5 years, the service rep said that any modification whatsoever voids the warranty. my mechanic said, and I quote "if i can't see it, then it's not there" pretty much saying that as long as you take it off when there's a problem, he'll take care of the rest. it really depends on your mechanic and what they'll do for you. the dealership will almost always say the mod will void the warranty, and they'll back it up by the disclaimer in the warranty book that came wiht the whole owner's manual package.

KJ-TypeR

Yes, the A/F reading taken from the tailpipe will be less accurate than a reading taken before the cat.

If possible, it would be best to make a hole in the exhaust manifold (Header, downpipe, collector etc.) just before the cat. This would give you the most accurate reading. Fuel injectors are DEFINITELY a better solution than a fuel pressure regulator, but they cost a lot more, and more is involved in the installation.

After getting the Fuel Pressure Regulator, set it to the point where your A/F readings are rich across the entire power band. Then use a chip to "lean out" all the areas running rich to the A/F ratio you desire.

renncpe

A couple of things, has Bull or tryied to set the fuel quanty to the third setting? that is max at idle and full throddle.

Adding fuel pressure or larger injectors will not change anything the ECU will cut the cycle time. The answer will be out soon with a real ECU solution that will incress HP and the Drivabilty of the car bottom line. Bull you can do lots of stuff to the car but in the end you will need to have it tuned so start saveing the money and do it right the first time, Oh and btw the renntech ECU will not be $2400.00 like you posted on the other board. You are a smart guy but you will post some BS once in a while.

Randy

ps. Still waiting on that add package so I can post with the same rights as other resellers and tuners.

Buellwinkle

Randy, my fuel settings are stock, will bumping that to the third setting make the A/F richer?

I never said $2,400 just for an ECU mod, I said $4,000 for a Renntech pulley + ECU mod installed. On the Renntech website they charge $1,694 for the C230 pulley and $1,600 for an ECU mod (other C-class because C230 is not ready). That comes out to $3,557 with tax around here. I figure that they don't do the install for free so my reasonable guess is that it's going to come out to about $4,000. Sure, your dealer discounts that and that's great. Since I'm the one asking and it's not you advertising, I think it's OK to tell us how much you can get us the Renntech components for, heck I wouldn't mind a spoiler for my car if the price was right.

renncpe

In a short answer yes it will allow more fuel=richer mixture.

I will find out the price of the ECU mods soon my hope is that it will be around 700.00 we will know soon. The intercooler is being tested right now. That would make a nice kit 2995.00 Pulley,intercooler, and ECU mods. 50 HP

Randy

linh

Yes, it does help but to a point. There's a limit to everything. Upgrade the ECU to get more fuel also has it limit too without bigger fuel pump or bigger injectors. Btw guys, Upsolute can custom you a chip base on your dyno chart for only $400 until you are completely happy, if not, they'll return 100% your money back and every mods you do after that, they'll upgrade the ECU for free.

renncpe

That would be true if the injectors were operating at max capacity. The C230k has sufficient over head to over come the increased intake volume due to the addition of a pulley kit.

Beware of chip tuners that advertise 30 HP gain on a 193 HP car. 400.00 is not cheap if it is incomplete, I keep saying that there is much more to the ECU mods than meets the eye. To ignore that fact is simply penny wise and performance foolish. Having someone hack into your ECU and change the Fuel map and ignition curve only scratches the surface.


Randy

Buellwinkle

Randy, are you saying Upsolute is a bunch of hackers that will ruin Linh's car?

renncpe

No, but I'm saying that there is more to it than a dyno chart. Ask your self can a car with much less HP beat win in a 0-60 test or in a 1/4 mile. Same rear end same everything in the drive train? The ECU affects driveability alot.

Randy

sdcaclint

do you have a time frame when this will be available? and is that a fairly firm price?

linh

Well, today i has Upsolute upgraded my ECU and my first impression was, very happy so far. The engine sound more like factory now. I can't hear any clicking noise at wide open throttle (WOT) any more. The car felt very responsive and i think there might be a little more power gain from the ECU upgrade. To me, i don't really care much about the power gain but as long as the A/F ratio is below 13.5:1 i would be very happy. I will have my car dyno at EvoSport next week.

Any of you guys out there thinking about chipping your car in the future, why don't you give Upsolute a try. You got nothing to lose. They'll give you 100% of your money back, if what ever the reason you are not happy and also FREE upgrade in the future if you decide to do more mods in the car. One thing i learned from all of this was, the manufacturer can say what ever they want but i will not believe them until i dyno and test drive the car because every manufacturer alway think that they are better then the other. So, one thing to consider when buy the products, pick the company that have a 30 money back warranty.

KJ-M3

That's what I've been saying all along! All those guys on the Honda/Acura boards spend LOTS of time on dyno's dyno'ing their mods. Guys on the BMW and Mercedes boards rarely dyno their cars and always go by their "Butt Dyno" (which is TOTALLY unreliable.

renncpe

How much top end RPM did you pick up?
What is your new top speed?
What is the responce time of the throddle?

And a !00.00 for the dyno ? so you got 1/3 of the job and you dynoed to prove that fact.

Randy

linh

Renncpe,

All i want to say is that i'm happy with the result and still save $$$ compared to $700 your ECU upgrade. look, all manufacturer say all the same thing about their products like it better then other....etc. Have you ever heard of the old saying, " Fool me one, shame on you and fool me twice shame on me". I has learned that lesson when it come to what the manufacturer are saying about their products.

Renncpe, if you are so confident about the $700 ECU upgrade that it will work just like you say it would, then why don't you give a 30 days 100% money back warrantee to your customer if what ever the reason the customer is not happy. what do you say?

Look, i don't want to discuss about this ECU upgrade anymore because i'm really happy with my Upsolute ECU upgrade and your ECU upgrade is good too but like i said, i got nothing to loose with Upsolute plus i save $300.

renncpe

I'm glad that you are happy. That is all that is important. My only point is they are not the same thing that is all, there is more to it than a price diffrence.

Randy

linh

Renncpe,

I guess you are right also because the right way to tune a car is by at idle, partial throttle, wide open throttle and road test driving with AC on....etc.

DCX Engineer

How has the pulley upgrade affected your fuel economy? I am concerned with HWY driving at constant speed. I would expect the mileage to drop under acceleration, but how about HWY?

Buellwinkle

As an experiment I drove Orange County to San Diego at a constant 72 and before the pulley I got 33.5 and after I got 33.2. Here's a pic I took during my trip to Ski Beach with the pulley at 32.8. It actually got a little better than this later in the trip but that picture came out blurry. I took it because I knew someone would ask.