taylor192

OK guys, not looking to bash or get bashed, just looking for someone who has compared these 2 cars.

I was doing a quick comparison, and you can get the 4-DR Saab with similar options to the 2-DR MB for $2000 less CND. Plus frieght is included in all Saab prices, so $3500 less CND.

Performance aside how does you think these 2 compare? Luxury, comfort, service, ect...

Please no comments about turbo lag, or 0-60 times, I wanna buy a "luxury" car for the ride, not the get-up-and-go, or I'd be comparing a WRX.

Personally I think the basic Saab is ugly, only the Viggen or Convertable Saab models look good, and that may make the ultimate difference as the 2 cars seem virtually identical in features and close in price.

tommy

Well, that was my choice as well. The Saab turbo is a very good thing.

Torque steer is absolutely awwwwwwwwwwful on them, though. Edmunds says that it's much reduced on the new 9-3, but of course, there's no hatch (agree with you Columbus- it's a crime!)

I had a '83 900S, so I love the looks of the Saab, in kind of a retro way. But the chassis is so old on those cars for this last year; it's ridiculous. Pedal placement is also very weird on the '02's generation; I didn't like it at all.

The Saab is a bigger car, but the design is too old, and torque steer to scary for me to consider it, no matter how many thousands they drop off the price (oh, there's mad depreciation on them as well, if that's important to you).

Now, if they do a hatch on the new gen, I'll definitely consider European delivery on it.

Saabi

I just purchased a 2002 9-3SE and suggest you testdrive both cars within one days time. Both are very unique, Saab is much larger inside, with the seats folded down it holds our tandem bicycle inside. Controls are very intuitive and seats are absolutely the best (Saab and Volvo have long been considered the undisputed champs in the seating department). Depreciation is not that extreme as everyone compares its 5 year worth from MSPR which Saabs never sell at. Quietness, night panel, Onstar, smooth ride and rear seat room are what my passengers always comment on. Couldn't be happier, all for $24000 USD with 3 miles on odometer. As an aside, check out insurance premiums, you'll be surprised.

taylor192

Checked insurance premiums (full coverage, $1K deductibles):

$169/month CND for the C230 ($40K CND)
$160/month CND for the 9-3 SE ($38K CND)
$161/month CND for a Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V! (a $24K 4-DR economy family sedan with a sporty edge)

I wasn't that surprised. I was surprised being 23 and male that my insurance on a C230 would be around $2K/year. Hell its $1200/year on my 1990 Camry!

TimmyC230boy

i had the opportunity to drive a Saab (dont remember which model) a while back and I must say one thing "LOVE THEM SEATS". Best seats ever, the torque steer was a bit much though. I drove a for door Viggen I think, but not sure. As far as quality it felt like a very tight and refined car. The ride was very well also.

Saabi

Wow, didn't realize how high the premiums are up north. I just turned 25 and saw my premiums drop a lot.
As for the decision in cars, a great source for saab info is at saabnet.com. Serious board that gives you all the selling points of Saab.

230

My last car was a 95' 900SE Convertable. I was so in love with it!!!!! The interior styling is beautiful and I think the exterior styling is gorgeous (<--sp?) as well. The thing I feel in love with is the interior. So comfortable and feels like your driving a Jag or S-Class!

DtS

A new car model is a big thing in Sweden, especially when it comes from Saab! There has been very high expectations on this new model. Alot has been written about it, and alot of newspapers and automags have already made pretty thoruogh reviews of it. The swedish press stands united: The new 9-3 is the best car Saab ever developed. They just seem unable to praise it enough (even though you could expect som bias..., but they do compare it to f.e. Volvo S60, and claims the new 9-3 will be a really hard nut for Volvo to crack.)

A stationwagon of the new 9-3 will be available in 2004, and so will a convertible. I will soon take the new 9-3 out for a test drive (as soon as it arrives to the the dealers - I have a Saab dealer very close to my home) and will then post my very own review of it and try to compare it to the C-class. Stay tuned folks!

Buellwinkle

Not to put down Saab as it never appealed to me so I never test drove it, don't even know the nearest dealer. But when comparing the coupe to other cars in the same price range have you considered the BMW 325i, the Jag X-type, Audi A4 1.8t, VW Passat, Volvo S40, Lincoln LS. If comfort is what you are after then why did you list the Acura RX and Subie WRX? I would be happier in the WRX only because I value performance but for luxury and comfort the Jag X and Lincoln LS have the coupe and Saab beat hands down.

columbus

Dan, I can't wait for a review from your test drive!

I chose the Saab but on the '03, the lack of a hatch almost disqualifies it from comparison. I mean, how can you compare a 2-door sports coupe with a 4-door family sedan? Unless you just use the fun2drive factor as a measuring unit. I guess then that the WRX is a tough competitor, particularly in terms of price. But it doesn't satisfy in materials quality (I don't mean build quality - I'm sure it's doing alright here); just closing the doors on one is quite a turnoff once you're used to the solid thud of the Benz doors. And the RSX is quite a different animal altogether...I recall the thread that wouldn't die when some Acura troll said here that we all got basically screwed by paying more for a Benz. Oh boy, don't mean to get anyone here started...
The Japanese entry-level luxos (Acura CL, Lexus IS300, Infinity G35) are contenders, but if you're happy with a base C230K plus C7 (no leather, no auto), or even C2 (panorama roof/rain sensor wipers), you can't beat the bang4$ ratio of the Mercedes. And the Japanese design is, well, a matter of taste, but they always find a way to mess up a perfectly sensible car with some quirky (or just plain uninspired) details. Hate the steering wheel in the G35; the rice lights of the IS300, along with the cheap rear lid hinges and hood prop (plus the heavy steel hood); the grille on the Acura CL. Every time a new model appears I say "Bullseye", then turn away in dismay after closer inspection. They may all be cheaper than a loaded 330i, but I'd rather pay up the extra bucks...or stick with my Coupy. For the money, it gives me the most satisfaction. Peace.

taylor192

I used to drive a 1989 Jaguar V12 VP and the comfort was amazing.

I wanted to keep the cars within the same base price ($CND), so lets compare apples to apples:

Acura RSX $31K
Subaru WRX $35K
C230 $34K
Saab 9-3 SE $38K
Jaguar X 2.5 $41K
Lincoln LS $42K (NO MANUAL)
Volvo S40 $31K (NO MANUAL!)
Volvo S60 $38K ($42K for the S60T, but NO MANUAL!)
Audi A4 1.8T $34K (NO MANUAL)
BMW 325 Ci $41K
Lexus IS300 $42K
Inifinity G20 $30K
Inifinity G35 $39K (NO MANUAL)
Nissan 350Z $??K (not released yet?)
Mazda RX8 $??K (not released yet?)
Cadillac CTS $40K


Did I miss any? Anyways I was trying to compare the C230 to other 2DR Coupes at first, then to other "sporty cars", and now finally to "luxury cars".

Considering "sporty" luxury, the C230 is closest to the BMW 325 Ci and upcoming Infiniti G35 Coupe, but realistically the MB C230 is priced way below those models, so it comes closer to the Saab IMHO.

Considering performance, its closer to the RSX, maybe the BMW and Audi (without quattro).

Considering styling, the RSX, 350Z, and G35 Coupe are closest.

The C240 is better compared to the Audi, Caddy, Jag, Lincoln, and Volvo.

If I had a little more cash and wanted a little different of an image, I'd choose the CTS Sports Sedan, love the new styling.

In the $30-35K price range, the 3-point star is enough of a balance of styling, luxury and performance to warrant my choice over the A4, RSX, WRX. This car stands out in a crowd, the A4 is too bland, the RSX is like a tampon (every ***** has one), and the WRX feels cheap.

Buellwinkle

Boy, Canadian prices are off from U.S. prices. Keep in mind that the coupe is cheaper because you get less. For example, on the Jag X you get 4 wheel drive and nice leather interior and power seats and indash CD. Some of the others get automatic so if you wanted automatic that raises the price of the Coupe. I think you have to decide what coupe, what options. If you are comparing an automatic coupe with leather, power seats, sunroof and CD player (many come with that like the indash changer in the Audi A4 and Subie WRX) then you are probably looking at closer to 40K Canadian. So while I enjoy my stripped coupe, someone looking for luxury might not. Also look at a BMW 325i, it's cheaper than the Ci.

vyse

I'd get the 325ci if I were you. An automatic C-coupe is $34k based with cloth seats. $2000 (i think $1900 to be exact) for leather, $2000 ($1800?) for the panoramic sunroof, $800 for a cd changer and you're already up around $40k mark. And that's still lacking power seats, evolution package, and heated seats. BMW's leatherette seats are only a $650 option I think, and the automatic is around $1500. Not sure exactly how much. Personally I think it's a better deal. The 325CI does end up more expensive than a C-coupe that's not fully loaded, but it's not a lot. Plus, although I never really checked out the prices for a 325ci, if you get the same features on both cars, I bet the price of the C-coupe will be the same as the 325Ci.

I loved the look of the 325CI. It seems a bit more refined and sporty than the C-coupe, but considering I didn't get a fully-loaded coupe, the 325 was out of my price-range.

Buellwinkle

Same for me, I was comparing 25K (US) cars to other 25K cars and there's not much out there better than the coupe. Once you approach 30K you are in a different league and the BMW 325Ci and Jaguar are the competition. I'm not a fan of BMW but the 325Ci with nice wheels, lowered a little bit looks great.

steve s

the s60 t5 does have manual..looks kinda like a spaceball thingy with the brushed aluminum.

as for the 9-3, i'd wait till the new car comes out. the old is quirky and has a SOLID-REAR-AXLE...the new one based on gm's epsilon platform (with 4 wheel independent suspension) and is also the base for the new alfa romeo 156 (which btw, is going to be back in the u.s. soon) and a few other cars. it supposedly has a lot of the torque steer dialed out...fwd, no escaping torque steer. sorry, but a c240/c230k just doesn't do much for me...nothing special, except maybe the nameplate. it is on the lower end of the mb spectrum...but of course, that does come with one of the most solid chassis in the world. bank vault solidity, which equates to an absolutely comfortable ride. there are a lot of cars in the 30k zone if u'r looking at a new one, as u listed

Mike T.

What competitor?

In Canada, the closest thing to a C 230 K Coupé is the slower BMW 320i sedan. Perhaps a BMW 3er Compact would be more à propos but it's (unfortunately) not sold here.

The Japanese cars in this price range are WAAAAY too ricey for anyone over 25.

As far as I can tell the C 230 K is sort of out there on its own, which I think is the reason that you posted this poll in the first place: it's hard to classify this car as it seems to meld across categories.

About cloth vs. leather, I would not have got the leather option if it had SAVED me $2000 CDN. It lets you slide around on the corners; people think you farted if you move suddenly; and in hot weather a leather seat is insufferable, only exceeded by the acute discomfort they engender in the cold Canadian winter. No thanks! Leather may look great in a showroom, but it's purely the ****s in most real-world applications.

A decently equipped C 230 K should cost no more than $37,800 CDN before taxes. Try to limit the options - most of them are frivolous and the only source of significant profit that M-B Canada makes on this model

Be satisfied with the fact that this car is 5000 Euros cheaper in Canada than a similarly equipped one would be in its homeland (or the USA for that matter). It's a pretty decent vehicle even in base form.

taylor192

You're quite right, a fully loaded C230K does come quite close to 40K and near its competition. But you are paying $1000 more for the panoramic sunroof rather than a real sunroof.

You're also right about the leather which was one of the selling points, that this luxury car comes with the leather optioned out.

1. Leather sucks in the summer if you want the windows down and roof open, wearing shorts and a tanktop.
2. Leather sucks in the winter, unless you opt for the heated seats, and a car starter (this doesn't have one... does it? but if you installed one, could you have the heated seats activated automatically when the car starts?).
3. Options for leather are too restrictive. I wanted a nice two-tone interior, and will eventually get the cloth replaced with suede or leather, but something a little more "sporty".

I'm not a fan of BMWs, too "gino" for me, and still doesn't have the "flash" that the MB has. BMWs, Audis, ect... pass me and I don't even notice, but when the big round headlamps and 3-point star passes, it turns my head, and you can't put a price on that. Jaguar has that same appeal, I used to love driving the Jag.

Surprisingly, the C230K has more interior space (or at least seems to) than the 325i.

tommy

How is that not a positive for getting leather?

Taylor - I totally agree about the leather selections - BMW does have better color selection than MB (their gray with burgundy leather is an awesome combo) - that was one of the reasons that I was actually happy when leather wasn't available when I bought mine. I was afraid of the summer problem with leather, but was very surprised when it wasn't that big of an issue this hot summer - the roof seems to help alot with air circulation. Too bad not all cars have those fans in the seats that the 9-5 does.

taylor192

This car is great, its sorta in a class and price range all its own. Without the huge list of options (leather, power seats, heated seats, headlamp washers, ect..) this car stays under $38K and you get 17" rims, a huge sunroof, leather shifter and wheel. Anything more than $35K was pushing my budget a little far, but I had to get the panoramic sunroof and evolution package! but $40K+ was just too steep.

Too bad Mitsubishi isn't sold in Canada (well not easily), they have some great cars, but still doesn't match the MB!

I've made my choice, I hope to take delivery of my C230K in early Sept, or late Oct... depends on the colour I want... Brilliant Silver is by far too common (Desert Silver would be alright), so a month's wait for the Orion Blue or Magma Red might be worth it...

taylor192

Your sig references a "3-tone smurf interior", care to elaborate...???

tommy

Sure! I've got a three-tone interior by Classic Soft Trim. The interior of the seats is perforated silver leather, the ousides of the seats are smurf blue leather (like the Kleemann pics), and the seat backs are a charcoal vinyl that match the rest of the interior (couldn't get smurf in vinyl, and you need that elasticity that leather doesn't have on some part of the seat, so that it doesn't get all stretched out) - so, three-tone.

The door panels are also done in smurf/silver leather - do a search; pics were posted a while ago. The consensus at the time was, "nice on your car, but a little too much for me." But I'm not sick of it yet!

avlis

I flip the seat forward when I park it for a long time to shade the seat and steering wheel. I usually have to get my stuff out of the back seat anyway. The flip latch is easy to reach so it's not a big manuver.

I drove all winter (without heated seats) and my butt didn't complain about the coldness. They reach body temp fast and the heater kicks quickly.

steve s

oh, and another thing to skip the current 9-3 and go for the new 9-3 (if u'r still thinking of the saab) is that the old engine is an iron-block while the newer is all-aluminum...

vyse

heh, you're right about that gino comment. All the BMWs in my school were driven by ginos (this gino that looked like a pimp actually drove a 2002 M3!) The other BMW was driven by some ricer who made his 330i into a M3-wannabe with the replica M3 bumper, a M logo on the back and replica M3 rims. *puke*