Just wondering about the accuracy of this survey. They mention that Hyundai now is more reliable than Benz??? How do they do their assessment?

I got it from GoAuto mag (Australia), that’s why was wondering if some of the guys in the US can help me out.

Jag did well at fifth, Toyota ,Lexus and Porsche at the top.
Audi 18th, Mercedes 25th, and BMW 27th

 

Yes, it's unfortunate, but Mercedes-Benz quality is not the best. Last year, Mercedes was already beaten by Jaguar and last year as well Mercedes was beaten by BMW.

The survey is done by mailing North American Mercedes-Benz new car owners and owners rank the quality of their cars and describe their problems when the car is virtually new. They then see the percentages of total problems per car by marque.

 

Do a thread search here on the forums and you will see what knowledgeable USA MBZ owners think of JD Powers worthlessurveys -- not much!

 

well I wouldnt be surprised,

hyundais are simple cars, mercedes are complex.

well besides, havnt you noticed that our cars have so much problems...little strange electronic errors, where as a hyundai is like a flintstone-mobile. under the hood of my friends tribuon is so...simple

 

Sad but true. Hi-tech or not, MB's quality is lower than any Korean automaker. I remembered returning my JD Power survey a few months back and I remember it didn't have too many 8+ scores.

 

http://www.jdpa.com/news/releases/pr...asp?ID=2006082

You guys can view the article here.

I say it's an unfair test. I agree with everyone here........our cars are much more complex............

 

hmmmm. I do not agree with the logic that because MB is more complex it has scored lower than Hyundai. Is that to say porsche and lexus is also not complex?

 

No, they'll have a rationalization for that later.

Though I read the article on it over the weekend, and they did say that initial year issues with the R class are dragging down MB's average, which I don't have a hard time believing. Having said that, though - MB did poorly because their quality is poor, and has been so for several years now. I'm not sure why people are making excuses for their performance.

 

lol............here's my logical response.....

Porsche and Lexus are GOOD at making complex cars, because they've always been good at it, partly because they have great leadership in the ranks, and they have engineers and designers who actually know what the hell they're doing over there. So in short, they have smooth running companies with people who understand what their motivations and goals are.

MB makes complex cars, but well, they suck at it. Daimler just needs to focus on making MB's better, but they're too busy trying to acquire different car companies and fiddling with constant expansion. Their internal politics is screwing them all up, and they have absolutely no focus whatsover on doing what they should do first: Making MB's like they used to.

Hyundai is a lot like Honda used to be in the mid 80's and early 90's. They start by focusing on making their cars REALLY great with "simple" technology and go from there to make more complex, technology-laden cars later on. Hell, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a luxury marque spawned from Hyundai 10-15 years from now.....to compete with Acura, Lexus, etc...

So for the sake of the argument...........it's all politics in the end. Porsche grows organically and internally as a company, and focuses on just making great Porsche's. Period. You rarely hear about them interested in trying to buy out another company or grow into a monster that can't be managed well. And when Porsche needs help in something they're not internally good at, they outsource it from an expert, instead of trying to do it themselves and screwing up. (ie: they hired Toyota Consultants to help them revamp and upgrade their assembly lines and production methods) It's all about managing a smaller company that can yield devastating results. Lexus has Toyota to help manage their ****, so that's another can of worms. I just chalk that up to good old Japanese work ethics. MB and BMW just rather fixate itself more on getting bigger and bigger, and trying to fix problems that come with acquiring other companies, instead of just being happy and fine with who they started off being, and making excellent, world class cars.

End Rant.

 

JD Power & Associate outsources their survey data entry to S. Korea that's why the results is like that.














if you believe this statement, send me a check of $1,000,000. and I will make you live forever.

 

Lexus been on top for 2 years in a row, can't argue with that, it's a good car.Now how could Porsche jump from the bottom to the 2nd spot (2005-2006), or Benz (Audi/BMW) from the 4th and 5th to the 25th and 27th?

Something's dodgy about this suvey.

 

IMHO, JD Power is total bull****. When you do a survey, you have to take into account that some people are just pissed off and could start checking off random crap. There is always going to be a percentage for error, in every survey. When you ask people to do stupid survey's, it's always going to be flawed........

Porsche and Lexus deserves to be in the top for reliability and longevity. Every top car magazine's independent tests with them agrees, so there is little room for argument.

 

Rebadged VW SUV.

 

The Cayenne shares only its base engine with the Touareg, and Porsche's version is substantially modified. IMHO, I don't like the Cayenne, Boxster, or the Cayman. They're basically bread and butter cars for Porsche, but they're all still high-quality.

The 911 is the only true Porsche anyway. If having other cars helps to make Porsche build more profit so they can make better 911's, I'm all for it.

 

I disagree, the 911 is the bread & butter car for Porsche. The 944 was before it was dropped. They needed more product lines to bring in money and to replace the 924, 944 & 928. Hence, the Boxster & Cayman to replace the 924 & 944. Nothing has replaced the 928, not sure whether you can say the Panamera is a replacement for the 928. The Cayenne, I would say, is for diversification. Having said all this, I still luv my Benz!

 

I don't even want to start compiling the list of problems, but let's just say the most severe ones are failed fuel pumps and charcoal catalyst. They made the car feel jerky during normal acceleration, sometimes the supercharger won't kick in and the engine will just rev to redline without any power, and lastly, the car has failed to start. Right now, the front bushings are about to fall apart as we are speaking ...

Delusional? No, but I'm sure I'm not the only one. What I'm surprised is that Porsche finished on top this year. Good stuff!

 

You can't have a bread and butter car that has a starting price of around $80k.
The 911 is the flagship car, the car that people who buy Cayman's, Boxster's, and Cayenne's can't afford.

Calling the 911 Porsche's bread and butter car (which means it sells in higher volumes than the flagship) is like saying the S65 AMG is MB's bread and butter car, when clearly, the C-Class is the B&B car.

Come on now.

 

Actually, the E class is MB's bread and butter car overall.

I still think that the 911 is an overpriced bathtub that isn't worth the money, but that's me. I'd buy the Boxster S, mod it to crush most 911s, and vacation with the remaining difference. That'd be quite a vacation!

 

I stand corrected. The Cayenne was the B&B vehicle for Porsche last year. It seems the Cayenne will be overtaken by the Boxster/Cayman this year. The 911 is in a strong second place tho. http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...01/009373.html & http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...04/204904.html are my sources.

 

Porsche is an engineering firm, that sells a few cars, whereas DaimlerChrysler is a car company that does a little engineering. I see most of Mercedes-Benz vehicle problems coming from electronics, and those problems land on the porch of Siemens. Siemens is a giant company that wants to be part of everything, but is part of nothing because a bunch of financial dunder-heads have been running the company for decades.

Now, if I could just get Porsche to assemble my next Benz with all that Toyota expertise, WOW, what a car!

 

You got it exactly right Moviela.

 

My take on J.D. Power's IQS:

http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/IQS2006.php

It's not measuring what most people think it measures.

If you want better reliability data, I'm working on it. Need more C-Classes before I start collecting data on the car. Right now 51 are signed up, including 12 2005s and 9 2006s. I require at least 25 per model year currently, ramping up to at least 100 in the future.