Falling Paint
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
From: Bayarea
2005 C320 4matic + 2005 ML500
Falling Paint
I had my car's hood and front bumper replaced this January at Auto West Collision (addr:1729 Junction Ave San Jose, CA 95112 / phone:408 392 1200 / web:http://www.autowest.net/). In less than 3 months, paint started
to fall off all over the places. See pics here (click magnifier icon to see them in
full size): http://picasaweb.google.com/gens2000...esPaintFalling
They say that these are rock chips, but I drove my car only on highways and city roads. I didn't follow any trucks that was scattering rocks. Also, this is happening only on the hood and bumper, not on front fenders which they didn't do any work on. Front grill and side mirror covers are clean.
It looks to me that abnormally weak paint is falling due to rain and wind pressure. What do you think? Did anyone have similar experience?
to fall off all over the places. See pics here (click magnifier icon to see them in
full size): http://picasaweb.google.com/gens2000...esPaintFalling
They say that these are rock chips, but I drove my car only on highways and city roads. I didn't follow any trucks that was scattering rocks. Also, this is happening only on the hood and bumper, not on front fenders which they didn't do any work on. Front grill and side mirror covers are clean.
It looks to me that abnormally weak paint is falling due to rain and wind pressure. What do you think? Did anyone have similar experience?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,498
Likes: 4
From: San Diego, CA & San Jose, Costa Rica & Stuttgart, Germany
1959 220S / 1979 230 G / 2002 A210 AMG / 2003 C320 SC / 2004.5 C320 SS / 2005 ML350 SE / 2008 smart
that sucks !
CONCLUSION: Auto West Collision sucks !
CONCLUSION: Auto West Collision sucks !
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 491
Likes: 1
From: Redding, California
AMG GTS
I have a bunch of those. About 25,000 miles worth of highway driving. Lots of rock chips (never went with ClearBra). But I doubt that shop will do anything for you if you claim your paint is "falling." I do have a lot of rock chips but they aren't numerous as your car's (no offense).
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 400
Likes: 0
From: Burma
Which move point A to point B.
Trending Topics
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,211
Likes: 2
From: Laguna Niguel, CA
On the 2004.5 and newer C class, MB used a much better clearcoat from PPG called Ceramiclear. This new clearcoat is much more resistant to chipping than older clearcoats. You can tell you have that if the paint code starts with C like C723 for pewter silver. When you get into an accident and the bodyshop paints the car, they are used to and happy working with the older traditional clearcoats. I've called around and asked but nobody wants to use the OEM PPG Ceramiclear. They say they use what they use for years and know what to expect and won't experiment with new stuff. To me that's against the law in CA. Insurance law states that the insurance company must pay to fix like for like. For example, they can't use an aftermarket bumper because that's not like for like with an MB bumper. Tell the body shop that they did not use like for like clearcoat that's spec'ed out by MB and their use of inferior products has led to an abnormally high amount of rock chips that would not have normally appears if they had used the proper clearcoat. Also, if the insurance company recommeded the bodyshop then you have recourse against the insurance company. Call them up and tell them the paints used are not OEM MB and therefore not like for like and you want them to pay to have it redone. If you picked the bodyshop, the insurance company is out of it, don't bug them, nothing they can do.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 761
Likes: 0
From: Oregon
2005 C55, 1988 260E, 2000 Chevrolet Silverado
Make sure you get Clear Gaurd not 3M clear bra. I have the 3M and it turned yellowish really fast. I plan on getting the front few chips airbrushed and have new Clear Gaurd bra installed this summer. And new Kleemann front bumper.
The problem isn't with gravel roads, it's that the asphalt highways come appart and those are where the rocks come from.
The problem isn't with gravel roads, it's that the asphalt highways come appart and those are where the rocks come from.
Last edited by RES; Apr 26, 2007 at 12:53 PM.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
From: Bayarea
2005 C320 4matic + 2005 ML500
I have a bunch of those. About 25,000 miles worth of highway driving. Lots of rock chips (never went with ClearBra). But I doubt that shop will do anything for you if you claim your paint is "falling." I do have a lot of rock chips but they aren't numerous as your car's (no offense).
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
From: Bayarea
2005 C320 4matic + 2005 ML500
On the 2004.5 and newer C class, MB used a much better clearcoat from PPG called Ceramiclear. This new clearcoat is much more resistant to chipping than older clearcoats. You can tell you have that if the paint code starts with C like C723 for pewter silver. When you get into an accident and the bodyshop paints the car, they are used to and happy working with the older traditional clearcoats. I've called around and asked but nobody wants to use the OEM PPG Ceramiclear. They say they use what they use for years and know what to expect and won't experiment with new stuff. To me that's against the law in CA. Insurance law states that the insurance company must pay to fix like for like. For example, they can't use an aftermarket bumper because that's not like for like with an MB bumper. Tell the body shop that they did not use like for like clearcoat that's spec'ed out by MB and their use of inferior products has led to an abnormally high amount of rock chips that would not have normally appears if they had used the proper clearcoat. Also, if the insurance company recommeded the bodyshop then you have recourse against the insurance company. Call them up and tell them the paints used are not OEM MB and therefore not like for like and you want them to pay to have it redone. If you picked the bodyshop, the insurance company is out of it, don't bug them, nothing they can do.
They didn't use any aftermarket parts, but did use a refurbished OEM bumper which I believe is cheaper than new one by $100 or so. I visually checked the bumper before they put it on, but it looked just fine, so I authorized to use it.
Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: vancouver canada
2001 c240, 65 MG Midget...5.0L V8
on one of the pics you can see the paint coming of the back egde of the hood (right by the windshield) that doesn't look like a rock chip to me..its just thin paint arround the edges that's falling off, this is a sign that the body shop didn't do a very good job eventhough the rest of the areas are most likley rock chips
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,498
Likes: 4
From: San Diego, CA & San Jose, Costa Rica & Stuttgart, Germany
1959 220S / 1979 230 G / 2002 A210 AMG / 2003 C320 SC / 2004.5 C320 SS / 2005 ML350 SE / 2008 smart
like I said before:
Auto West Collision sucks !
Auto West Collision sucks !
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
From: Bayarea
2005 C320 4matic + 2005 ML500
on one of the pics you can see the paint coming of the back egde of the hood (right by the windshield) that doesn't look like a rock chip to me..its just thin paint arround the edges that's falling off, this is a sign that the body shop didn't do a very good job eventhough the rest of the areas are most likley rock chips
It turned out that the shop used a paint from Standox, not ceramiclear from PPG. And yes, my car's color code is C693 I confirmed on the sticker on the body. I did a search but found amazingly little information about Standox. If anyone can give me a pointer, fantastic.
MBworld Guru
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 22,058
Likes: 18
From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
repeat what Carlos said.
Standox is fine. It's oem approved. My bodykit's painted by the bodyshop using Standox paint. The paint held up fine especially for fiberglass kit. Your bodyshop just did a ****ty job perhaps.
btw, www.standox.com
Standox is fine. It's oem approved. My bodykit's painted by the bodyshop using Standox paint. The paint held up fine especially for fiberglass kit. Your bodyshop just did a ****ty job perhaps.
btw, www.standox.com
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
From: Bayarea
2005 C320 4matic + 2005 ML500
repeat what Carlos said.
Standox is fine. It's oem approved. My bodykit's painted by the bodyshop using Standox paint. The paint held up fine especially for fiberglass kit. Your bodyshop just did a ****ty job perhaps.
btw, www.standox.com
Standox is fine. It's oem approved. My bodykit's painted by the bodyshop using Standox paint. The paint held up fine especially for fiberglass kit. Your bodyshop just did a ****ty job perhaps.
btw, www.standox.com
There are lots of information about ceramiclear with buzz word such as award winning, nanoparticle technology, etc.
http://www.ppg.com/car_autocoat/pres...eramiclear.htm
http://www.ppg.com/car_autocoat/awards.htm
CeramiClear clearcoat by PPG has received a PACE Award, marking the fourth consecutive year the company has won recognition in the program that honors product innovation and management excellence among automotive suppliers worldwide.
CeramiClear clearcoat is the first automotive clearcoat to use nanoparticle technology in the final coating applied to car bodies, protecting the color coat while providing a durable, glossy appearance. The patented technology creates a highly cross-linked network at the surface of the coating for superior resistance to damage caused by day-to-day use, car washes and environmental hazards such as acid rain and tree sap.
http://australianautodreamz.com/inde...d=12&Itemid=28
Mercedes and Rolls Royce have begun their switch to the new, super-hard, ceramic clear coats. The Maybach and 2005 Rolls Royce Phantom are using BASF's new nano particle, ceramic clear while PPG's CeramiClear™ is being used on 2005 C-Class Mercedes automobiles. Material Innovations (an industry trade journal) quotes a Mercedes Benz spokesman as saying, "CeramiClear will make it through the Mercedes range throughout the year (2005)."
But nobody seems to be talking about Standox..
MBworld Guru
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 22,058
Likes: 18
From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
ppq is OEM provider for clearcoat which at the factory the paint are baked at a much higher temperature. No aftermarket bodyshop will be able to reproduce the same nano-paint that's used. Not even the bodyshop some MB dealership owns. They even admit to that when I repainted my hood at the bodyshop owned by the dealership where I got my car.
Standox has been around for a while. In the US they're distributed by DuPont. It's pretty much the best you can have for color matching other than custom colors like those house of color candy color thing.
I would be worry about the bodyshop you used instead of the paint they used.
Standox has been around for a while. In the US they're distributed by DuPont. It's pretty much the best you can have for color matching other than custom colors like those house of color candy color thing.
I would be worry about the bodyshop you used instead of the paint they used.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
From: Bayarea
2005 C320 4matic + 2005 ML500
After doing a little more research without much fruit, I finally called PPG, explained my situation, and asked if they could do any help to me. They were very sympathetic and indeed kind.
They told me that the right coating I should use to repair my car is ceramiclear D8126.
Catalog:
http://www.ppg.com/refinishbusiness/...ches/D8126.pdf
A news article about DaimlerChrysler and PPG's agreement to use D8126 for repair
http://www.allbusiness.com/machinery...1187516-1.html
Another article about Nissan's adopting D8126 for repair of its “Scratch Guard Clear” OEM finish
http://www.autocentral.com/content/n...&VNETCOOKIE=NO
PPG folks were even kind enough to give me the name of distributer in my area who actually ordered this product from them. Then I could get names of a few shops from the distributer which can use this product. Unfortunately, none of them were close to my home, but at least I see some light.
They told me that the right coating I should use to repair my car is ceramiclear D8126.
Catalog:
http://www.ppg.com/refinishbusiness/...ches/D8126.pdf
A news article about DaimlerChrysler and PPG's agreement to use D8126 for repair
http://www.allbusiness.com/machinery...1187516-1.html
Another article about Nissan's adopting D8126 for repair of its “Scratch Guard Clear” OEM finish
http://www.autocentral.com/content/n...&VNETCOOKIE=NO
PPG folks were even kind enough to give me the name of distributer in my area who actually ordered this product from them. Then I could get names of a few shops from the distributer which can use this product. Unfortunately, none of them were close to my home, but at least I see some light.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,211
Likes: 2
From: Laguna Niguel, CA
Like I said, the car came from MB with Cermiclear which is clearly superior to what they body shop used. The problem is going to be, and I came across this with a body shop that uses PPG exclusively, they don't have any experience shooting Ceramiclear and are afraid to try it. I did find one body shop in So Cal that uses Ceramiclear on MB repairs, Prestige in Mission Viejo. I had a bad experience with them 10 years ago but they tell me it's all new management and people and after talking to them for a half hour they look like they know what they are doing.
Also, if you think that it's bad now, starting in 2008 all body shops in CA (and maybe the country) have to use water based products. Very few body shops have the proper equipment and booths to shoot water based and will probably be making messes the first year. Avoid damaging your car at all costs next year
The good thing about water based is there's no VOC's to leach out so you can wax it when you get the car back, not a month later like before.
Also, if you think that it's bad now, starting in 2008 all body shops in CA (and maybe the country) have to use water based products. Very few body shops have the proper equipment and booths to shoot water based and will probably be making messes the first year. Avoid damaging your car at all costs next year
The good thing about water based is there's no VOC's to leach out so you can wax it when you get the car back, not a month later like before.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
From: Bayarea
2005 C320 4matic + 2005 ML500
I called around 15 body shops in bay area. Most of them didn't know what clear coat they are using. They knew the paint brand they use (Glasurit, Spies Hecker, PPG, ICI AutoColor, or Standox), but that was it. One of them kindly taught me , "all clear coat is the same!".
When I asked what's the product name of coating, typical answers I got were, "we use the best coating on the market", "we use the one approved my Mercedes", "don't worry. we have lifetime warranty". They didn't know well what they were using, but often times they had extremely high confidence, and got annoyed when I asked about details. None of them have heard of ceramiclear (I always had to pronounce several times). Only one shop got interested in my explanation of ceramiclear, did their own research, and came back to me with information about Glasurit's scratch registant coating product. They admitted that they had never used it, but that they'd be interested in trying this new thing on my car for their experience. If I can't find a shop with experience with ceramiclear, I might go with them.
When I asked what's the product name of coating, typical answers I got were, "we use the best coating on the market", "we use the one approved my Mercedes", "don't worry. we have lifetime warranty". They didn't know well what they were using, but often times they had extremely high confidence, and got annoyed when I asked about details. None of them have heard of ceramiclear (I always had to pronounce several times). Only one shop got interested in my explanation of ceramiclear, did their own research, and came back to me with information about Glasurit's scratch registant coating product. They admitted that they had never used it, but that they'd be interested in trying this new thing on my car for their experience. If I can't find a shop with experience with ceramiclear, I might go with them.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
From: Bayarea
2005 C320 4matic + 2005 ML500
I showed my car to Standox specialist. It turned out that Auto West Collision didn't use the sealer. They painted the base color paint directly on the hood and bumper. Sigh.
