markmam1

hey guys

i have an instance where i drove my car a little bit fast and didnt see that it was a corner i live here in las vegas and there is a lot of roads that are new and no warning sign

yeah by the way i drove the car at about 45mph regular turn a 2 lane road and out of no were the road turned left so i turned while stepping on the brakes a little bit around 35 and the car understeer but it turned a little bit it didnt understeer like a front wheel drive car. but the best part the ESP didnt even went on and this is the second time the ESP disappointed me and i amost hit a wall.

for those who tracked their w203 how are you suppose to approach a corner
for example like the subarus sti when you turn on the corner you are suppose to turn hard so the car wouldnt understeer and the evo you have to approach it slowly and step on the gas while in the corner to have more grip

i want to know this info for future i had encounter a problem like this again

FrankW

ESP is there to prevent you losing control of the car in swirving situation. It's not there to stop you from understeering. If you are going too fast and trying to turn into a corner where you are already exceeding the tire's road holding ability than you are going to 1. understeer or 2. understeer. PLUS you are in a car that has suspension setup to have the tendency to understeer.

for those who tracks their car would say you played too much Gran Turismo or Forza.

markmam1

and yeah as you may know i drive a 05'c230k yeah the last thing i expect for this car to behave is to understeer but yeah it did so your trying to say that your car wouldnt understeer on that same circumstances because you have a different set up even though your a w203

markmam1

and oh yeah those are some of the nicest games around i think but never played them before but i think i did play the forza the demo one at target hahahh

dmatre

Slow in, Fast Out. . . .

Get your braking done in time to get the car balanced, and get back on the throttle early. If you're braking late (surprised by the appearance of a corner), your front tires are now almost fully loaded with braking force, and then you're asking them to turn as well. . . . this doesn't work (as you've discovered).

A tire can generate only so much force (traction). If you're at max traction for braking, you've got very little left for cornering. If you're at max traction for cornering, then hitting the brakes is a sure way to find the guardrail. Basic explaination: http://www.auto-ware.com/setup/fc1.htm

Go get a book like Bondurant's or 'Driving in Competition' and learn a little about what makes a car turn, and what limits its ability to turn. It may save you some body repair . . . or worse . . .

sanf

reminds me of this....

kevblah

yeah theres a huge 270 degree offramp turn off of I-93 north here that has a sign posted EXIT 35 MPH, the first time i took that exit, i was going about 70 before i realized the handling capability of the car...you just gotta be cautious and use the brakes until you feel your car can handle the turn...

kickR

We all know that these signs usually overestimate the corner a little bit much but going into the corner with another 35mph (100%) is stupid, reckless and dangerous, especially when you dont know the capabilties of youre car too well. I hope you know better now.

btw - youre car is coming along nice. youre just missing that drop now from the c240 suspension.

kevblah

yeah, its a fairly spacious turn...i wouldnt do anything thats absolutely wreckless...at the first sign of understeer...i slowly depressed the brake....safely resuming the designated course

and thanks, too bad i got my drop SATURDAYYYY....haha (c320 btw)

patrick_y

I agree with dmatre here. Although some slight addition/variation.

1. I like to brake a bit to have the weight go to the front tires, but you have to release the brake before you enter the turn. The car's weight is now in the front for the moment as the car is diving.

2. As the car is regaining balance and is no longer diving, turn the steering wheel softly and then progressively more quickly as you go into the turn. If you turn the steering too early when the weight is all in the front of the car, you'll understeer, if you turn it too sharply in the beginning, it'll understeer.

3. Balance the car's front/rear weight with the accelerator pedal (never use the brake pedal), unless you start to slide, don't balance the car with the steering wheel. Remember as your transitioning your turns left and right (on S curves) you have to be careful with the steering during the weight transfer (from left and right) point because at this time, the steering isn't as communicative.

4. After you clip the apex of the turn or get out of the S-curve, it's time to start to accelerate as you straigten out the steering.

The cars are set up for understeering as FrankW mentioned earlier, however, at lower speeds under 40 mph, the car can be safely provoked to oversteer.

kickR

I yet have to see someone who can safely oversteer a w203 with ESP not totally off and that stupid footbreak. Theres just no feeling in that stupid footbreak to have the end break out and slowly ease off of the footbreak with that stupid flap (which isnt possible) for a good come back on a normal road.

dmatre

Stepping on the footbrake WILL induce oversteer - but that's not the preferred way around the track (unless you're in the Fast & Furious drift contest).

A little trail braking into the corner will keep bite on the nose while turning in, and allow the car to rotate slightly. It is possible to get some oversteer on the W203 . . . but this occurs at speeds that would be homicidal/suicidal on the street. If you're into trying this out, go to a track day and have some fun.

dmatre

Old autocross trick: Pull the parking brake release fully, and measure the distance between the dash and the back side of the handle. Then cut a length of garden hose to this dimension, and slit it lengthwise. Pull the parking brake handle again, and put this hose section over the actuator rod between the handle and the dash - holding the handle out.

Voila - when you release pressure on the parking brake pedal, the brake releases (no pulling of the handle required).

As stated before: Don't do this on the street . . . regardless of what you think, you ain't that good . . .

markmam1

wow thats very informational

its funny how you said our car is set up for under steer.

to tell you the truth its not the only time i understeer. but yeah i didnt know how the car hadles so i took it on a big abbandoned highway and yeah i was trying to learn how the car handles and took me forever i tried not braking and turned hard almost no grip at all. and then i tried braking and then release when the corner approach it kind off work but as soon as i break more it looses its grip again. but yeah i played with the car for about 2 hours.

it just bothered me about 2 days ago when that incident happen because i dont really know how to approach that thanks for the help.

markmam1

and also i would like to add that i have driven my dad 1987 w124 to same extreme or may i say same driving stile oh its a 300e m113 engine. and yeah that car is so nimble and comfortable i do believe though that if they have the same power to weight ratio that the w124 would be faster on a track than the w203 dont get me wrong but damn old mercedes seems to handle better than the new one well the one that i have driven. i have also driven my aunts w202 1994 c280 that thing is a beast on 2nd gear till redline and the sound of the inline six is good by the way

the w124 is so nimble and i can also easily thro it to over steer at any speed but its kind of hard to control because it doesnt have an lsd. but damn that car is nimble rides bumps easily and can take corners