taylor192

Yeah, I wasn't commenting on the "cheap" aspect, but on the "snobby" remarks that because its a hatchback that "ricers" drive the C230K.

I have seen pics of new wheels, some neon underglow, a few two-tone interiors on a C230K... but nothing that "ricey" yet on a C230K... still waiting for an aluminum wing on a brilliant silver C230K... I'm sure there's one out there somewhere.

David N.

That's cool. I wasn't aiming my comments at you or anyone specifically. Let's all just chill and enjoy our cars.

As for the aluminum wing on a brilliant silver 230: That would make too much sense for a ricer. Ricers can't colour coordinate. what you should have said was "an unpainted aluminum wing on obsidian black".

session

it's a joke

i thought the capitalized Sedan would make that clear...

DtS

....you should have written Cabriolet...

shtatc

We should all stop slamming each other and start slamming our cars..to see who can get the lowest drop!
LOL

SoCal240/6

You guys are so sensitive about the Hatchback being MB's attempt to move downmarket. Downmarket is not a negative term - its just a widely used one in the auto industry and its just a description of MB's marketing attempt with the Hatchback.

Its just a fact, deal with it.

From the NY Times, 2/24/02: "Aimed at young buyers who could never have afforded a new Mercedes before, the C230 is selling briskly. But after a week driving one, I had to wonder if the company will eventually pay a price for venturing so far downscale. Cheaper products may lift sales in the short run, but they can also chip away at the exclusivity and scarcity that are hallmarks of high-end goods."

Automobile Magazine 3/2002- on MB's downmarket C230 -"Sprinkling silver stars too liberally throughout the market will sap this brand's prestige surely and inevitably."

AutoWire: "If you think Mercedes-Benz cars are all expensive, hulking behemoths, think again. As the century-old marque expands its offerings down market, it now debuts the C230 Sport Coupe. With prices starting at a remarkable $24,950, it is the least expensive Mercedes you can buy."

Automotive News 6/2002: "Jaguar is the first luxury maker to move down-market with a vehicle designed for big volumes, but it has company. Mercedes-Benz has introduced the C230 Kompressor Sports Coupe, which at $25,615 is priced nearly $6,000 less than the next Mercedes model. "

AutoWeek: "Mercedes builds plenty of fine vehicles. We do not count its relatively inexpensive C230 Sports Coupe among them. Why? Because this entry-level execution within the luxury market segment makes too many compromises in quality and performance. First off, it doesn't feel like a Mercedes-more tin filing cabinet than bank vault. Interior materials are cheap (check out that sunroof shade) and the engine is rough. Don't believe us? Test any other American-spec engine Mercedes offers and you'll understand immediately. Don't get us wrong; we like the idea of the C230. But the promise of an affordable sports coupe from the three-pointed star family must not disappoint. Period."

You Hatchback owners are so delusional. But I guess anyone that would insist on calling their Hatchback a "Coupe," or thinks the engine is smooth, the cloth is nice, etc. is skilled in self-delusion, and could easily close their eyes to MB's attempt to move downmarket with the Hatchback. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

session

"think that the cloth is nice"

because that's an objective measurement, right?

it's amazing that you go to the trouble of copy/pasting articles to slam the people who rice out the coupe, and it's inside a thread with a picture of a riced out (even more than i've seen any coupe) C240.

you're a funny guy.

it's not that i'm sensitive about what you call my car; in fact i could not care less. i'm simply commenting on the fact that you seem to attempt to state as an objective fact that the C230K is "bad", and that you make broad generalizations that are rich with contradiction.

CHECKMATE

Just returned from an errand-winged out rice blew by and about 1/2 click down the road-his "aero" assist blew off!

SoCal240/6

I didn't say the Hatchback was bad. I just said it is MB's attempt to move downmarket. "Downmarket" is not a description of whether a car is good or bad, its merely a description of a marketing plan and where the car sits in the market relative to MB's other cars.

vadim

With all these idiotic quotes added to justify your point... makes me want to label this whole thread "Only in America...", you must have seen them circulating around (some even funny), no?

Your stubborn persistance makes me suggest that you spend a lot of time reading these authoritative periodicals, yet you have never driven a Coupe - or even seen it up close. If this model is a "tin can", than the whole C Class is. The Coupe is priced aggressively *in the US and Canada*, which makes it a steal, if you know anything about cars.

But... Oh, no!!! How can it be??? It doesn't have leather, wood in base trim!!! All these writers can't be wrong, after all??!!! Downmarket indeed!!!

Now maybe these same writers will explain how the same materials and interior elements that are "cheap" in C230K are NOT cheap in C240/320/C32 and other MB models?

Or how the "tin-cabinet" C230K is different than "bank vault" C320, sharing the same components with the former?

Or how an E-class Classic with cloth seats and 1.8L 163HP engine (offered in the UK, for instance) is superior to a nicely equipped Coupe?

...

Or maybe you have set yoursef a goal to become a C-class forum troll?

SoCal240/6

Yep, the NY Time, AutoWeek, Automotive News, Automobile Magazine, AutoWire (and just about every other automotive authority and publication in the world) are all idiotic. They are ALL part of the vast conspiracy against the Hatchback. Everyone is wrong, and you are right. The Hatchback is actually NOT an attempt by MB to move downmarket. Instead, its a move upmarket - MB obviously hopes to steal some Porsche 996 and BMW M5 sales. You have convinced me.

I've driven the Hatchback a couple of times. Although the 2 that I drove must have been missing a spark plug and had broken engine mounts, so they were probably not fair drives.

Troll?? Far from it! I am a "Super Member" of this site! Says so right under my name.

(P.S. If MB began importing an E class "Classic" (MB does love their euphemisms!) with cloth seats and a 1.8 liter engine into the U.S., that too would obviously be a move to take the E class downmarket in the US. It would be an attempt to move away from the BMW 5 Series market and compete down in the VW Passat market. That's called going downmarket. Is that really so hard to grasp??)

shtatc

If you think about it...the entire C-Class line is downmarketed. But what does that matter? You read that the C-coupe has been downmarketed. So what! I dont think Mercedes downmarketed the C-Coupe, but is exploiting a niche in the market with is currently very hot. Is it going to be the downfall of Mercedes? - I doubt it. I think Mercedes has succeeded where BMW did not with their 2 door hatch. Was it bad timing? Maybe, but I think it was more of a bad product.

When you talk about downmarketing or cheaping the product - I would say the 2003 C-Class sedans are going in that direction - since if you compare my 2001 base to the 2003 base - I have more options and features for the same cost. To add these features will only add more to the cost, but does that now make it more upscale? In the end, it is still a C-class. And I take nothing away from that fact, because I love my car. For all its little quirks and issues I have had this past year - luckily nothing major - it is a great car. And I would think the C-coupe would be also - I did not go the coupe route since I wanted 4 doors - just was more practical for me. Nothing to take away from the coupe.

I think we are all free to choose whatever we want to buy/drive. If we believed everything we read, then we would be a bunch of bumbling idiots. We would have no opinion on anything. Like you - you have your opinion, as do I. And we need to make our own judgements based on our own experiences and not solely on others - because someone said this or wrote this.

vadim

You have missed, so gracefully, the contradictory statements made by these writers. Magazine articles written without being familiar with the subject are idiotic indeed. The only factor that seems to have affected their opinions is the price of the C Coupe. Had it been priced at or above the price of an Audi TT (as it is in UK), the whole tonality would have been totally different. The high-priced SLK has never been bashed so hard for the same engine the C Coupe has.
And this statement is supposed to add credibility to your post, right? Are you sure those were not SLK230K? Um, right... The SLK doesn't have this.... (oh, my god!!!... how dare they?!!) Hatch....

SoCal240/6

1. Yeah, had the Hatchback been priced at or above an Audi TT, the whole tonality of the press CERTAINLY would be different!! It would go from mild disdain to outright laughter! (What makes you think NY Time, AutoWeek, Automotive News, Automobile Magazine, AutoWire, etc. are not "familiar with the subject"?? They make their living driving, testing, evaluating and writing about cars, you know). (P.S. The Hatchback tractor engine was equally bashed when it was in the SLK - perhaps even more so).

2. No, the statement was not to add credibility, just to correct your misapprehension that I have never driven the Hatchback.

potatobbq

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/merc...***/index.html

Check this out... apparently it's a "Sports Coupe 2dr Hatchback", hehe. Anyway, I would have to agree with SoCal240/6 that it is in fact a hatchback but MB calls it a Sports Coupe.

session

TK2001_C

This car is a disgrace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BlackC230Coupe

SoCalC240/6 u never answered my reply in the other thread. You talk about cloth being cheap when it comes standard in the ML320 which has a higher base price then your C240. Can u please expalin why to me?


i think that the C230 coupe has boosted your self esteem because you used to have the Cheapest Mercedes-Benz vehicle in the U.S., now that the C230 coupe came out you talk like yours was never the cheapest when it was. Unlike all the other Mercedes vehicles.

FrankW

the cheap interior bit those writers found on the C-coupe are not in the sedans. i.e. the sunroof cover, door panel, etc.

the C-coupe shares only the platform with the C-sedans. every bodypanel is different than those on the sedans.

E-class is superior because simply it is a E-class with much better build quality than any C-class. It doesn't matter about the size of the engine, it's all about quality.

taylor192

sad thing is MB is not alone in this, other manufacturers are doing this, removing the little features not many would notice as standard equipment and putting them as added value options... its a ploy to make more money without the consumer noticing... sad thing is that its working.

taylor192

session has gone bananas... SoCal is hilarious!

I just hope SoCal realizes that for many of the younger crowd that now own a C230K, this is probably the first in a line of MBs that we'll buy, and why, because MB has enticed us to buy a sporty car that suits our age bracket.

So 4 years from now when my lease runs up, I'll be looking at an E-CLK, maybe a M, who knows... I just hope then that I don't turn into the "snob" MB driver like some people here who associate the car with wealth and status.

Its just a car, and its fun to drive! I love my C230K!

FrankW

i agree, C-coupe is much more sporty than the C-sedans. Beside, with the choice of C230k coupe and C240, i would pick C230k too, simply because it has more hp for the buck.

vadim

It certainly is a hatchback - it has a rear hatch. It ALSO is a coupe, by definition (look up Merriam-Webster). On the same note, a 330ci is a 2-door sedan, but it also is routinely referred to as "coupe", and noone seems to complain. The MB model name for this car is "Sportscoupe" - so we call it Coupe. SoCal240 prefers to snobbishly call it "Hatchback", which is hilarious. There is no such model name in the MB lineup, this capitalization is simply a sign of stubbornness.

I'm awfully glad it's a hatchback - makes it a versatile vehicle. Try to take 2 people to an airport in a C class sedan, with all their baggage... The Coupe can handle this with ease...

vadim

I'm surprised so many people can be drummed something into their heads so easily... Have you even looked inside the Coupe? Forget those articles, try to use your own judgement. The materials used in the Coupe are THE SAME as in the C class sedans!!! As a matter of fact, I do prefer the aluminum, as I hate wood (and I'm not alone here). Same about the Coupe's steering wheel.

Ok, you already admitted the shared drivetrain. Now, "every bodypanel is different"... So what?? Do you seriously think that sheet metal/gap tolerances/paint quality are any different in the Coupe compared to sedans?

Where did you get the idea of the build quality differences between MB classes? I wonder if you can back your statement up with any statistics etc.

Plus, that said, you just put down the entire C class, NOT JUST the Coupe.

As for the E class being inherently superior - not in my eyes. Maybe - if I were an aging doctor or a lawyer... I find it boring, compared to the Coupe. That said - haven't driven the new E, I'm sure it's a remarkable automobile, but it doesn't offer me a manual tranny. So no interest. Would go for a 5 series, rather.

S_kLaSse

Another Batman. He should buy Accord and modify it real bad instead of saving all the money just to buy mercedes and treat it like Honda. The worse is rather than intall turbo and NOS in the honda. He remove the '0' and add 'AMG' rear emblem to add 100 HP on the Mercedes.