this must be the 3000th time that this question has been posted, and it really comes down to one thing: priority. the MB is a better car OVERALL, BUT! its slower, its almost as expensive, the seats are better in the BMW, the BMW handles better, and I would like to add a few resonses to some previsous statements...

"the MB comes with sport seats" the Base MB seats are awful in my opinion, very uncomfortable... this required adding the $1200 power seats, where it was not necessary in the BMW. AND the standard BMW seat is far most sport that anything MB.

"the service loaners." I scored a 540 for a day hile they installed the hardtop for me.... it all depends on the dealer.

"adjustable height center armrest" the MB armrest bugs me, it made it difficult to shift the manual trans (and use the touch-shift auto) and it was not comfortable for me... the 325 armrest folds up out of the way for spirited driving AND is in a better location/height for 95% of the population.

"homelink" BMW accessory, like $150 installed, not a big deal.

"10-year old body-style" the E46 3-series was introduces in europe in 1998, and in the US as a '99 the coupes followed a year later, so the first E46 coupes in the US were '00s, which makes the body style 3 years old. (4 if you count the sedans)... they will be "current" until 2006-ish (about the time my warranty runs out)


my next car will most likely be a C320 or the like, as they are superb cars, but my BMW will always be mine.

BTW, after going through this same dilemna, I'm driving a Z3 with the 2.5.... go figure???

 

dasMafia, well said, they both have their strongs and weaks, so one is to decide with which one will be more pleasurable or less difficult to live width (kind of half-full vs. half-empty glass). I currently have a 99 323i and was considering a CCoupe, but I fell out of it as it was impossible to get any idea how much the car will lease for once it arrives in the US! I understand he $20 differences, however, I learned that the lease price for a base went from $415 to $487 for a base w/metallic paint on November 1, 2001 (that's by using the mbusa.com lease calculator). DAMN!

I've heard horror service stories from my friends who own either Bimmers or MBs, so, again, I guess it's a question of luck. As to having too many Bimmers on the road, what do you think will happen if the CCoupe will be selling as it sells now? I believe that it will be a lot of them too.

Now, as the BMW dealer quoted me a lease in the same range as the CCoupe, I will likely be taking it. As I was collecting the quotes, I got one for the 330i for $490, and I may even stretch for that one. I believe that you will all agree that there would be no comparison between a 330i and a CCoupe. But I still have time to decide as I will have to order at the end of January, way after I should have ordered the CCoupe (one month earlier).

This was not intended to downgrade any of the above mentioned cars, just shows my preference among the fine choices and less-fine conditions that we are forced to buy our German-made cars.

 

Hell, buy one of each.

 

The reason that there can be a comparison between the coupe and 330 is value! The 330 is formidable and no one should question that but it costs about 1/3 more. Even if I could swing the 330 (which I probably could actually) I don't think I'd be able to say that its 10k better than the coupe. Especially when a little $1500 chip will allow me to run with 330 easily. Nope, I'd save and go for the M3 and try not to get gouged! I've never driven the M3 but my guess would be that its worth the extra 20 as its truly a world class car whereas I found the 330 to be impressive but expensive. A coworker of mine just bought a new convertible M3 which I am owed a drive in so I guess I'll see. Anyone know out of curiosity if they are still impossible to get in a reasonable time frame/gouging customers still?
But that's just my .02

C230/6speed/orion/C7/changer to be built soon

 

I agree, sk-mia, there is no comparison between the 330i and the Coupe, because BMW doesn't expect the 330i to be compared to the Coupe. The 330i is more appropriately and fairly positioned with the C320 sedan, instead.

I wouldn't be surprised that you would get a better lease on the 330i. BMW needs to sell those sitting on the lots, while in most parts of the country, the C320 is still an order car.

 

As the owner of a 2000 BMW 323i (I believe it's the same engine as the 325), I can say that I like this car, and would consider buying another one. I like the way that it handles, the interior is comfortable, and I think it has adequate power. When I looked at the C230, the additional "punch" that the 192 hp and 200 lbs of torque give it, makes it a sportier feeling car. This really is a personal choice. As everyone has pointed out before me, there are pluses and minuses for both. I will say though that IMO, the way that the dealer treats you should not make up your mind which car you buy (or lease). Okay, maybe it matters a little.....

I agree with MB-BOB. You can't really compare the 330i to the C230.

 

the engine was re-tuned from the 323 to the 325. 2000 323 had 170 bhp and 181 ft/lbs; 2001 325 184 bhp 175 ft/lbs - both were 2.5 liter engines. oddly, you get more horses but less torque.

oh yeah, another advantage for the bmw WAS that you may have gotten 'the Hire' dvd!

btw, i didn't mean to imply that the 330ci should be compared to the c-coupé. rather that, if i were to buy the bmw over again, i'd fork over the extra money for the 330.

and, like mbtech says, and some did, get one of each

 

Thanks for the info on the engine. I knew that they changed from 323 to 325, and I knew that they were both 2.3, so I assumed (yes... I know you should never assume) that they were the same. Not sure I like the "less torque" though.

I agree, I think I would probably pay a little more and get the 330i.

Nice to have both. They look good together!

 

Well, I've received a lease quote for a 330i at $490/mo, and the CCoupe is estimated to lease their base CCoupe at $487/mo on the mbusa.com web site, both for the same mileage (10,000/year). This is why I said that I would be stupid not going for a 330i, because there is no comparison. However, this would apply strictily to the above lease comparison! Of course, when consideing the MSRPs, they would be differentiated by $10k, which certainly makes them apples and oranges.
But to possibly come to apples and apples, I got another quote for a 325i for $420/mo, which I believe should be the price that CCoupe should go for, based on the MSRP, and other involved factors in a lease. And just some of those "other" factors, namely, MB dealers not being able to fix the lease when ordering while waiting for it at least 3 months and hoping that the price will not skyrocket like it did on Nov 1, 2001, made that da'Bimmer came out as a winner for me. In addition, I guess, it helps that I already got used to the Bimmer, as I currently have a 99 323i. Now, back to the comparison, I see that a number of you strictly comares these 2 cars on hp numbers, but let it be said than it than a shame that CCoupe still cannot outrun the 325, as hp-wise, it should be able to do it. I guess this is primarily because it is heavier, and I understand that heavyness is good security-wise, but Bimmers also have excellent crash protection ratings. So, back to the performance issue, I believe that in addition to weight issue, the supercharged 4 certainly will have to be even more tuned in order to compete with normally aspirated in-line 6. Now, once we start talking about tuning either up, that's a new ball game, and actually I believe that Benz can be tuned more effective for less money, as it relies more on software tricks to gain power than on brute engine's power. But also, there is an opinion that BMW underrated the HP on its 325 engine just not to put it too close to now extinct 328, which would then well explain why it is still faster 0-60 for about 0.6 seconds. Another interesting thing is that when BMWs are compared with other cars, they always have less hp but manage to be the fastest. I guess that this is why BMW is a BMW!
Damn, I got carried away, what a long post! Again, I am just discussing things, not trying to say that MB is a lesser car, I am just trying to explain my criteria and choice when selecting a Bimmer.

 

Not meaning to be blunt...

but why are you even in this forum?

 

Most of all that is being discussed here is subjective in nature and as a result everyone will have their own opinions and each of those will all be equally valid. However, regarding acceleration performance, there is a set of numbers which would seem to be reasonably objective - the manufacturers' published specs. Those that I've seen rate the 325 as 0-60 in 7.1 sec (man) and 8.1 sec (auto). The C230 is rated for 7.2 sec (man) and 7.5 sec (auto). That looks to me to be 0.1 sec faster in manual for the 325 and 0.6 sec faster in auto for the C230. I would expect that that is appox how they would compare in real world use, about dead even in manual and the C230 with a slight edge in auto. Maybe I'm missing something?

 

There is a technical paper posted somewhere that explains the relationship between horsepower, torque, gearing and redline.

0-60 times has a lot to do with the drag launching skill (or burning up the clutch) and gearing. I'm not surprised if 325 is faster than C230 for 0-60 as C230 never been able to hit 60mph with its 2nd gear. However I think the C230 has a slight edge through its 3rd, 4th gear maybe the 5th

 

Go For The 325ci, It Looks And Perform Great Overall Over The C230. Go To E46fanatics.com And It Will Totally Convince You To Get A 325ci. My Car Is On There.

Gook Luck

 

Is it still January 2002 on there too ????

 

brought back from the dead... dunn dun DAA!!!!!

 

Get a used w208 (98-02) CLK! Looks WAAY better than a Ci and will outperfrom one too! (320 v 325 and 330 v 430). Talk about bang for your buck!

 

I've seen so many complaints about dealerships in the US - both BMW and Mercedes alike, and I'm astounded, to say the least, for the US is a country that customer service is a standard commodity that every business has to have in order to survive. Unlike here in Malaysia, where having customer service is a bragging right which ultimately becomes a competitive advantge.

I'm a little confused how this reversal of roles came about in the automobile industry. I mean, dealers over here, especially BMW and Merc, treat their customers like...customers (I'm tempted to say kings but that would be an outright exageration even for the kind of quality service we get).

Here's an example: I was interested in the C230K before its launch date, hence the only viewing we had of the vehicle was in the brochure. I wanted to place a booking for the car and requested to view the real thing before writing a check. So the salesman made some calls, and the next day drove me (in his car) to the Daimler Chrsyler plant. He introduced me to the Regional Sales Manager which in turn gave me a full tour of the car, inside and out. I was as captivated with the car as I was with their customer service. The rest is, as they say, history.

I had good experiences with my BMW 525i too. But without wanting to hijack the post any further, I'll leave it at that I'm completely satisfied with their customer service so far.

Back to the topic, I never liked the C coupe (sorry coupe owners) so I'd advise you to get the C230k sport sedan. Like you, I was comtemplating between the C230K and 325CI before my purchase and ended up with the C230K for these reasons:

- C230K design has a life span of another 2 years before the new model arrives. E46 is already absolete with the arrival of the E90.
- More bang for buck with the C230K.
- The C230K interior wins hands down.

So, forget about the cars you mentioned and get the C230K SS

 

hello !?!??!!

do you realize this thread is from JANUARY 2002 !?!?!

 

wow, old post

just curious, in what way do you think the 430 "outperforms" the 330?

 

I Think Its Our ****head Friend From C230 617 Land. Something About The Way He Types.