kw230

A good news is I just installed a Auto Meter 20lbs boost gauge in my car today, it is really fun to watch the boost level while driving.

I noticed that the boost build up from the supercharger is extremely fast compare to those turbo car. It locked at about 10psi under 5000 rpm(3/4-full throttle), but once get above that, the boost is up to the maxium until redline. In second gear, I read a maxium of 15psi at 6000rpm. In the third gear, I read a maxium of 16.5 almost 17psi at 6k rpm( WOW) Also, I got vaccum reading about -18psi in the idle.

The car was just warmed up when the time I did the test. It was very cold -2C in Vancouver at night!!

Eason has done a boost gauge to a Coupe without an oversize pulley few days ago, the readings are 5psi below 5000rpm and 7psi above 5k. (We saw it went up to 9psi once!!)

Mods to my car included: Kleemann ring pulley, custom intake and exhaust

kw230

And one more forgot to mention: the boost in fourth and fifth gear all the way to 135mph is about 12-13psi constant.

Outland

Post some pics please!

PoonerElRay

KW230:

Are you from Richmond? What color is your car?

kw230

Yes, I live in Richmond. My car is silver..

linh

It just my guess but something got to be wrong here !! You are getting max boost of 17 lbs on Kleemann "ring" pulley? I'm only getting 9.5 lbs of boost on Kleemann alloy crank pulley and dynoed at 192 hp/ 219 ft.tq at the wheel. Buellwinkle 02' C coupe with ASP pulley (bigger then my Kleemann pulley) and also dynoed at 192 hp/ 217 ft.tq at the wheel. So i'm sure that Buellwinkle car is making the same boost as my car and that is only at 9.5 psi. You're telling me that you got 15-17 lbs of boost on a kleemann "ring" pulley? The Kleemann "ring" pulley is rated to make 10 hp less then the Kleemann alloy crank pulley at the wheel !! So, how can that be? Btw, if you are truely making 17.5 max boost on kleemann "ring" pulley with a stock engine, your engine would blown up already.

eason

linh:
Do you have a boost gauge installed as well? What hose did you tap your boost gauge with? With normal driving under 5k rpm, I got 5PSI on the gauge and peak boost at 7.5PSI at 6k rpm. 7.5PSI is equal to 0.5bar, which is same as what others said about the boost from the supercharge; therefore, I don't think I tap in the wrong hose for the boost gauge. The 9PSI of boost occurs at these few days only, when the outside temp below 10C(50F).


Also, people who have pulley installed should consider changing to colder plugs, since the increased boost will generate lots of heat in the engine, 1 or 2 heat range colder plugs can prevent pre-ignition and knocking. Just my $0.02

kw230

First of all, do you have a boost gauge in you car linh???If no, you should get one.
The kleemann pulley is running up to 10psi (or 9.5psi whatever) below 5Krpm, but once over 5k, the electronic wastgate will close and let to produce maxium boost pressure. If you understand how supercharger works, it may be easiler for me to explain about this overboost situation. A supercharger produce boost by the engine spins, so higher rpm means higher pressure the supercharger makes. In our C230k, there is a electronic wastgate which control boost pressure. From the boost gauge, I can see that the supercharge can makes 9-10psi easily once it past 2Krpm. That means the electronic wastgate is controlling the pressure up to 5Krpm(limited in 9-10psi by letting pressure out). After the engine speed past 5K, the wastgate start to close up and let all the pressure boost into the engine. In 6100rpm just before fuel cut, it is about 15-16psi. I also notice when the fuel cut apply at about 6200rpm, the boost suddenly lost to 0psi, which means the electronic wastgate is open again!!!

eason

ok... I got the math figuar out.

with stock pulley..
I got 5PSI until 5K rpm and peak boost 7.5PSI (0.51 bar) at 6k rpm.. that's 50% of boost increase at the switch over @ 5k rpm

in cold weather with stock pulley
6PSI until 5k rpm and 9PSI (0.61bar) at 6k rpm... 50% increase in boost at the switch over..

Kw230 with Kleemann ring pulley:
10PSI until 5k rpm and 15PSI (1.02bar) at 6.2K rpm... 50% increase in boost at the switch over as well...

Buellwinkle

Assuming you can get 15 PSI, then why is Kleemann coming out with a complete s/c replacement to get this kind of boost? Think about it, we made the pulley 20% larger, it's going to generate 20% more boost, that's it. The maximum that s/c is rated for is 10 psi, you may be able to squeeze 11 psi but it won't get you more power than 10 psi. You're guage must be off.

eason

Anyone know what PSI of boost can the supercharge generate with the stock pulley (bypass valve completely close)? With the boost gauge installed, we find out the max boost is produced at 6k rpm, right before fuel cut off and boost increased slightly when the weather is very cold.

dswildfire

if you really want the details on the supercharger, goto eaton's site for the M45 which is

Eaton M45

kw230

As i said, it is running at 10psi maxium below 5k, when the engine speed goes up to redline, the boost increase slowly and reach at least 15psi. It has no noticeable power increase as the boost goes up since it has already past the efficiency range of the M45, but the boost is there...
Also, i got the upsolute chip, it may affect the maxium boost as well...???

kw230

I think kleemann's supercharger project is to bring the boost up to 15-17psi all the time, and its efficiency range is in that boost, so it can generate more power

Buellwinkle

How can it be 15-17psi all the time. The level of boost created by the s/c is dependent on engine speed. In theory if you spin the s/c twice as fast you'll get twice the boost. So if the max is 15-17 psi at redline then at 3,000 rpm it should be 7-9 psi.

linh

Kw230,

I don't have boost gauge in my car but i know two people does installed the boost gauge in their car and it show a MAX boost at 9.5 psi at redline !!!! Remember back then when i has a "lean" problem? Well, i dynoed my car about 6 times which 3 different shop and each time it only show a 9.5 psi of boost at redline. One of the shop that i dynoed my car is EVOSPORT. So you can call Vadim if you want to confirm it.

If i was you, just to be save. Ask Brandon (Kleemannusa) about the MAX boost you expect to get from the "ring". This way, if you car is over boost, you can correct it before the engine blow up. My car was over boosted with Kleemann "ring" pulley after i installed it. But luckly for me, i recognized the over boost problem and remove the "ring' right away. Btw, you don't think i know how S/C work....?? Please..... I'm just try to help you because i recognized that something is wrong.


My friend, do you really think that the ECU apply "fuel cut" at redline? NO !!!! You don't just cut-off fuel supply at that engine speed (rpm) because it would cause the engine to run SUPER LEAN (cause no fuel) and melt piston or blow up. What you felt at redline when the engine was shut down was that the ECU "retarded the timing".

eason

What about my engine? I have stock pulley only and I have boost up to 9PSI in very cold days. I am 100% sure my gauge and the hose I tapped in is fine since my max boost in the warm days is 7.5PSI only. Do you guys think the boost will go up a bit when the temp is colder?

linh:
ECU retarded the timing all the time, even when the car is idlling. When the engine hits the redline, the ECU will cut fuel (but not shut down completely), cut boost and shut down the throttle.

R4ND0M_AX3

Most manufactures use a fuel cut as a rev limiter. I know it sounds like you will go lean but this is not a problem because there is no fuel at all so there will be no pre-ignition (aka knock). You only run into problems when there is fuel and not enough of it.

I used to have an aftermarket ignition on a previous car (Crane Hi-6) and it used a spark cut as a rev limiter. but this isn't very nice to catalytic converters because you have raw fuel dumped on the cat core (witch is very hot) and it burns up the core.

Fuel cut is safe.

BlackC230Coupe

why was your car running so lean with just the ring? so if u had to remove it because it was damngerous how will it be once i get the alloy pully? very dangerous?

kw230

Linh, I dont want to argue with the fuel cut issue, since it is not related to this tread here, if you are interested in that, go find out yourself and open a new tread please...

Today, I did few more runs to redline, the maxium boost is about 14psi, outside temp is about 10C. I also ride as a passenger (my friend drove my car), and read the boost all the way to 135mph. The high boost is only in 2nd and 3rd gear redline, about 14-15psi. In 4th and 5th gear, the boost comes down slowly and keeping at about 11psi.

Btw, i have a set of Denso Iridium spark plug(cooler than stock) intalled today, it has noticeable difference in throttle response and high rev smoothless(My stock plug is completely distroy). It is another good mod to our "pulleyed" C230K, as Eason mention in previous post.

I have my pulley on for 6months, no problem at all, i paticipate in autoX and track day event often. ( I am lucky???AM I???)

NJPaprika230

kw230, did you get the ik20 or ik22 plugs, and did you regap them or leave them as they were. I'm thinking about getting some of these plugs as well. Thanks.

kw230

I am using IK22, I didnt regap it, just check.

kw230

Buellwinkle:
yes, boost level depends on engine rpm in supercharger, but in our C230k, the electronic wastgate control the boost pressure. I notice that the supercharger can produce 9-10psi once the engine speed above 2500rpm. The wastgate is actually letting pressure out in higher rpm in order to keep it in steady 10psi until 5k. The wastgate then will close after 5k.
I think Kleemann is making a supercharger kit that has smaller pulley and to produce even more boost in low rpm, then the wastgate will keep it around 15psi all the way.....or it would be the same pulley size and running the same boost, then more power is acheive by having a more efficient supercharger which has a range over 15,17psi....these are just my guess...please dont fire at me if i am wrong...:p

eason

IK20= stock plug heat range (heat range 6)
Ik22= 1 heat range colder (heat range 7)
IK24= 2 heat range colder (heat range 8)

Using heat range 8 plugs in cold weather will notice a harder start up and a longer warm up time, but the engine can run more smooth with extra boost and prevent knocking. If people with pulley and drive to the maximum all the time should consider heat range 8 plugs.

Linh: How do you know your max boost is 9.5PSI from the dyno?
at what rpm does your max boost occur? We are not here to throw flames at people, we just want to know more about how our engine works.

NJPaprika230

Excellent info. Thanks guys.