Glyn M Ruck

Strange how different things are around the world. Our Benz dealers are generally good in this country although much depends on the Service Manager. My SM is excellent. But interestingly enough our Honda dealers are excellent as is the product. Benz have stopped building Honda products in this country & we import direct from Japan. Honda have just won 5 categories in the latest JD Powers survey and rate very highly on faults per 100 vehicles. Benz have really done a turnaround though. Won plant of the year & W204 has least faults per 100 of any car in it's class & in fact of any car on the market.

LILBENZ230

I had an 02 Acura TL (Accord in a Tux) and the dealership broke something every time they fixed something. It was a terrible experience of being at the dealer nearly every week for a year. I bought it used with 33k miles so lemon laws didn't apply. Literally, it would take them 3-4 visits to actually fix something. Generally the first time I took it, they told me they couldn't duplicate it. The second and possibly third time they would insist it was normal, the fourth time they would throw parts at it. By the time it was finally repaired, it had a new problem, and the cycle repeated. When they had to replace it's warping dash, they pinched a wire somewhere and the windows and sunroof fuse would blow every other day. After 6 months of them tossing parts at it and still not fixing it, I dumped it. Took a big loss, but it was necessary

So you can see why I'd be tepid when it comes to service departments.

mleskovar

Here it's about money, not service. The last time my dealer looked at my car they suggested I replace both power steering hoses, valve cover gaskets, pan gasket, and rear main seal. The hoses and connections were dry, valve covers and pan gaskets were slightly weeping (at 130K miles that's pretty good for a Benz!), and the main seal is only slightly weeping. They tried to intimidate me into getting the work done saying the reliability of the car was questionable with these 'problems' and I was going to be stranded because one day my car would have a catastrophic failure due to them. They followed up with me twice again trying the intimidation route in an attempt to get my business. If I remember correctly, they wanted $3600 for the work. I didn't waste my time telling them they were full of it. I lived a couple of years in Germany. My experience with the German mechanics was they were very professional, accomplished, and honest.

LILBENZ230

Okay my car is back at the dealership now for this scraping noise again. After a couple of days of silence, the noise returned full force. I've been told today that they can't duplicate it but are going to continue to try.

LILBENZ230

The dealership was not able to duplicate the scraping noise last week. During a drive for diagnosis the car developed a massive oil leak from an improperly installed o-ring on the oil filter. Now that it is all cleared and cleaned up, it's back to the dealership in a few hours to duplicate this problem for them. This is hugely frustrating. It is really difficult to enjoy driving my car anymore and I want it fixed!

Glyn M Ruck

Matt - do these buggers know what they are doing???

LILBENZ230

They seem genuinely perplexed at my issue. I just returned from the dealership. I took the foreman and a technician out for a drive and we were able to duplicate it on a smaller scale. It's always much worse when the car is cold, but both people heard the noise. They checked my car and said it had been built with the updated heat shielding and so that is not my problem.

They handed me keys to a C350 and sent me on my way. They're going to have to figure this one out. The new C350 is very nice, and on my drive home (80 miles!) it averaged 31mpg!!! It was as high as 32mpg about 40 miles into the trip. I even took photos cause I couldn't believe it.

I'll keep you posted.

Glyn M Ruck

Ah well - at least they heard it. Yes, the new engines are very frugal. The 350 more so than the 300.

LILBENZ230

Glyn (and anyone else who might be lurking/following this issue), they called and said they have replaced the transmission mount on my car and that it has solved the problem. Do you have any schematics or anything? It seems feasible to me that this could be the culprit judging by how it sounds at times over sharp bumps. What is your opinion?

mleskovar

Very good chance the transmission mount was the problem. Not uncommon for motor and trans mounts to go bad. It's something they can actually check so I wouldn't see them replacing it unless it was bad.

LILBENZ230

I've seen your posts around in various topics and you seem very knowledgeable and thank you for your response.. It's 200 miles (round trip) to the dealer and this was the 4th time for this issue. I am nervous about it. I pick the car up in the morning.

I just wish I knew why it would be so much worse when the car is cold than when it's been driven a while. Do you know why that might be?

Glyn M Ruck

It's very likely that this is the problem. There have been transmission & engine mount problems on 4Matics & W204s lately leading to grittyness & strange noises.

I'm far more inclined to believe a transmission mount than a sway bar problem.
I'm not saying the sway bar bushing did not need attention.

mleskovar

It's common for symptoms to change when a car heats or cools. On intermittent problems one of the first questions is "does it do <it> when it's hot and cold, or just one or the other". My guess is the problem is more prevalent when it's cold because the transmission fluid is not up to operating temperature and the shifts are more harsh.

Glyn M Ruck

+1

LILBENZ230

I'll be on my way to get it in an hour or so and I'm going to be so happy if it is finally fixed! I've missed the enjoyment I used to get from driving it that has been somewhat diminished since this noise started about 10k miles ago. Thanks to both of you for your input on this, I'll post again later today with the verdict.

LILBENZ230

The paperwork says "rear engine/transmission mount collapsed, noisy" and that they replaced the $81 part. For now, it seems that this has corrected the issue!

Glyn M Ruck

Let's hope so this time!!!

LILBENZ230

I'm going to drag this back up. My car has been plagued by these same symptoms for the better part of 50,000 miles now. I've replaced the transmission mount twice on my own since warranty expired.. both times it clears up the noise for only a few thousand miles. As of now, I have to drive the car gently.. anything that causes the rear of the car to squat.. hard acceleration, bumps during acceleration, etc.. causes the scraping/rotational noise.

I'm hoping to have all the mounts replaced this week if the parts get here in time. John Anderson will be in Atlanta this coming weekend and I'll be meeting up with him, if the problem persists past the engine mount replacement then he'll have some insight. Given that replacing the transmission mount will temporarily clear it up, I am hoping that replacing all mounts will do the trick.

mleskovar

I remember reading a TSB about a bolt/screw/bracket/mount (something) hitting the differential under certain conditions and causing a vibration. It was for cars earlier than yours but it would be worth putting it up on a lift and looking. If I remember correctly one symptom was people in the back seat increased the occurrence.

LILBENZ230

I'll be under it on the lift at the indy when it goes in this week. I don't notice any increased noise with rear passengers, though. Also, it looks like that could happen in any circumstance whereas this is only under engine load. If the car is coasting it doesn't happen at all. There was also a TSB about some heat shielding hitting the driveshaft but my car didn't have that issue as that was checked a long time ago. Given how the transmission mounts won't last anymore I am certain the engine mounts are shot. The car just doesn't feel right.. so I'm replacing them all at once and will report back.

Glyn M Ruck

Matt - I think you are doing the correct thing. The very fact that a new stiff rear mount brings the engine/transmission under sufficient control to stop the symptom until the mount softens should be indication enough.

LILBENZ230

Right after a transmission mount replacement she feels like a brand new car. But it isn't long before the noise is back and now it is worse than ever. I'm really hoping the parts arrive before my meeting with John Anderson as I will be embarrassed for him to ride in or drive it in this current condition. I can't stop driving it but I have been really babying it while the parts have been ordered.. and you know how I feel about babying it.

Glyn M Ruck

Pleased you are meeting with John. He seems a really good guy!

Glyn M Ruck

Matt - when they lift the engine & transmission to replace the mountings ask them to look for any bright spots where something might be touching. Of course the vibration transmission might be caused by one of the engine mountings itself.

LILBENZ230

As hard of a life my car has led and with its 128,000 miles, I figure the mounts are probably shot. I also read that it is best to replace all mounts at once so as not to put undue stress on the new one if others are weakened. Are the W203 mounts hydraulic? From looking at photos they appear to be just rubber mountings.