C230K Reliability (or Lack Thereof)
11-26-2002, 05:18 PM
#26
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Originally posted by MB-BOB
Nor does it mean that because some MBs have problems that ALL MBs have problems.
. . .
I don't believe anyone is suggesting that MB's are as reliable as any other car.
Nor does it mean that because some MBs have problems that ALL MBs have problems.
. . .
I don't believe anyone is suggesting that MB's are as reliable as any other car.
From what I've read here, it seems like lots of people suggest that MB's are overall as reliable as other cars - including overall as reliable as Toyota, Lexus and Honda.
11-26-2002, 05:38 PM
#27
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2002 C230 K
Originally posted by Wheens
Not to further muddy these waters, but from a statistical viewpoint we may very well extrapolate meaningful information as to reliability from this thread.
Considering the C models only (this forum): if the forum "sample size" is sufficient (and I suspect it is) and the spectrum of posters is representitive of C model owners in general (a little more iffy, but probably true), then one might be able to infer general C model reliability from what is posted here. Think about national polls that are deemed to be accurate to +/- 3% with a "sample" of only 1000 or so people.
Not to further muddy these waters, but from a statistical viewpoint we may very well extrapolate meaningful information as to reliability from this thread.
Considering the C models only (this forum): if the forum "sample size" is sufficient (and I suspect it is) and the spectrum of posters is representitive of C model owners in general (a little more iffy, but probably true), then one might be able to infer general C model reliability from what is posted here. Think about national polls that are deemed to be accurate to +/- 3% with a "sample" of only 1000 or so people.
What you're going to find on any car forum:
1. Enthusiats/fans of the brand (some of whom are likely to overlook small problems); on an MB forum in particular you're not getting very good representation for a company like Mercedes where the average age of buyers is 55 (I can only recall one MBWorld member over this age, so we're missing half of the owners right there).
2. People interested in modifying their current ride (often doing mods that cause another problem or error code).
3. People with a specific problem (posting to find the answer).
4. Potential buyers, people awaiting an order or new owners with simple questions (usually these guys get hooked by the information presented and never leave - such as myself
).5. Trolls
I'd say the most car owners never go to a car forum - of all my friends, some of whom I'd classify as car enthusiasts, not one of them looks at car forum.
- BT
Last edited by trench; 11-26-2002 at 05:41 PM.
11-26-2002, 09:38 PM
#28
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2002 C230 Coupe(M111)
Originally posted by trench
Unfortunately, this forum is more of a skewed population so it isn't really statistically relevant. This can be seen from the number of posters with less than five posts commenting/complaining about a problem -
5. Trolls
I'd say the most car owners never go to a car forum - of all my friends, some of whom I'd classify as car enthusiasts, not one of them looks at car forum.
- BT
Unfortunately, this forum is more of a skewed population so it isn't really statistically relevant. This can be seen from the number of posters with less than five posts commenting/complaining about a problem -
5. Trolls
I'd say the most car owners never go to a car forum - of all my friends, some of whom I'd classify as car enthusiasts, not one of them looks at car forum.
- BT
MacPhisto IS A TROLL.
This is a list of the Top 15 vehicles replaced under Lemon Laws around the country...
MODEL COMPLAINT INDEX RATIO
Mazda MPV 11,090
Kia Sportage 7,204
Ford Excursion 6,682
Ford Windstar 4,550
Mercury Cougar 4,342
Honda Passport 3,691
Honda S2000 3,510
Mitsubishi Eclipse 3,421
Isuzu Rodeo 3,393
Ford Explorer 3,039
Land Rover Range Rover 3,034
Audi A6 2,982
Hyundai Tiburon 2,954
Honda Odyssey 2,825
Lincoln LS 2,753
Honda has three top hitters. The Odyssey's adventures easily exceed the glitches surrounding MB's ML. Check out the S2000...this is a relatively low production vehicle...that's a horrendous fallout for a vehicle that only sells 9500 units per year! There's a nice CPK for your Honda quality charts!
Well said. A lot of MB buyers, particularly first timers, are so enamoured by the MB name that they will overlook any faults and defects.
Here's a sampling:
The transmission were out last weekend. It's shifting real funny. Kind of like jerking when it down/up shift. The dealer did not want to admit the problem at first, after I have talk to the shop foreman. He tested, and told me that the transmission is broken. The honda want me to pay $2000 for replacing a transmission. Which sounds like a pretty good deal. But I had search over the internet for similiar problem, I was SHOCKING to find out that HONDA give all the 2000 and 2001 HONDA odyssey 100,000 miles warranty. Not 1999, This is the same transmission on the 2000. And they all have problems. BUt mine will bot be covered. This is totally sucks. I call the North American Honda for the answer. Customer service girl told me that is cooperat decision. ANd no matter how I try to explain to her that this is the same kind of transmssion. She won't help at all. BAD NEWS for 99 Odyssey owners!!
Strengths:
Room, seat
Weaknesses:
Transmission, ignition switch(the van loss all power in the middle of driving, FREEWAY, VERY scary for wife and kids)
Strengths:
Room, seat
Weaknesses:
Transmission, ignition switch(the van loss all power in the middle of driving, FREEWAY, VERY scary for wife and kids)
The transmission went bad after I owned the van for 50 000 miles. Rebuilt and then went bad again. BTW rebuilt cost me
$6 000. Very expensive parts for this van.
The air conditioning was poor. First the compressor went and then a major leak in the system (inside the dash), again lots of money.
Brakes went out at 60,000 miles. This was 800 dollars to fix.
Windshield wiper motor died at 70,000 miles. This little gadget costs 500 dollars to replace.
Interior wears easily.
After owning a 1994 Civic, I cannot believe these cars were made by the same company!
The 1994 was a wonderful car, but to anyone shopping on a limited budget, please DO NOT buy a this minivan. You will more than likely regret it.
Strengths:
Are there any?
Weaknesses:
A Mechanical Nightmare
$6 000. Very expensive parts for this van.
The air conditioning was poor. First the compressor went and then a major leak in the system (inside the dash), again lots of money.
Brakes went out at 60,000 miles. This was 800 dollars to fix.
Windshield wiper motor died at 70,000 miles. This little gadget costs 500 dollars to replace.
Interior wears easily.
After owning a 1994 Civic, I cannot believe these cars were made by the same company!
The 1994 was a wonderful car, but to anyone shopping on a limited budget, please DO NOT buy a this minivan. You will more than likely regret it.
Strengths:
Are there any?
Weaknesses:
A Mechanical Nightmare
In spite of numerous recalls, I have enjoyed the vehicle immensely and was thinking of buying a new model next year.
That was until last week when my Malfunction Indicator and Traction Control lights suddenly came on while I was driving on the freeway. I took it in for service and was informed that I need a new transmission to the tune of $5588.
Having always had the services done on a timely basis at the intervals recommended in the manual and which often included an inspection of the automatic transmission, I simply cannot see a reason for this failure other than factory defect.
Strengths:
This vehicle is like a living room on wheels and can do practically anything I need done.
Weaknesses:
Obviously the transmission. I have found the sliding doors overly temperamental as well. Until Honda perfects these aspects, I can no longer recommend this vehicle.
That was until last week when my Malfunction Indicator and Traction Control lights suddenly came on while I was driving on the freeway. I took it in for service and was informed that I need a new transmission to the tune of $5588.
Having always had the services done on a timely basis at the intervals recommended in the manual and which often included an inspection of the automatic transmission, I simply cannot see a reason for this failure other than factory defect.
Strengths:
This vehicle is like a living room on wheels and can do practically anything I need done.
Weaknesses:
Obviously the transmission. I have found the sliding doors overly temperamental as well. Until Honda perfects these aspects, I can no longer recommend this vehicle.
My 2001 Odyssey has only 38,000 miles on it and has been sitting at the dealer for the last 3 weeks with a broken transmission. Fortunately, we purchased an extended warranty and will only be responsible for $100 of this $5,000 repair. UNFORTUNATELY, the part is BACKORDERED indefinitely and we have no idea how much longer it will take for the repair. We had to contact a lawyer to force the dealer to provide us with a minivan as the loaner rather than the Civic. I love my substitue Windstar. You can bet I will be trading in my Honda if I ever get it back. American Honda has been horrible to deal with. I will never purchase a Honda again.
Strengths:
The 3rd row of seats folding into the floor.
Weaknesses:
The transmission, and I have already had two problems with my sliding doors.
.
Strengths:
The 3rd row of seats folding into the floor.
Weaknesses:
The transmission, and I have already had two problems with my sliding doors.
.
The car have some tolerable noises in the doors mainly.
The back doors and seats squeaks a lot.
The main attraction!, water on the passenger side floor. I get the car to the dealer, the first time they said the car was OK and there was nothing to do.
One week later a storm came down and, guess what? Yes water came in again, but this time it was a pool. By now the car is at the dealers workshop.I hear and read that is a recurrent problem with seals on this car.
Wait a minute I almost forgot about it, the electric motor of the drivers windows makes a big "clunk!" noise when you get it down. The dealer promises to change it... when they have the part in stock.
The back doors and seats squeaks a lot.
The main attraction!, water on the passenger side floor. I get the car to the dealer, the first time they said the car was OK and there was nothing to do.
One week later a storm came down and, guess what? Yes water came in again, but this time it was a pool. By now the car is at the dealers workshop.I hear and read that is a recurrent problem with seals on this car.
Wait a minute I almost forgot about it, the electric motor of the drivers windows makes a big "clunk!" noise when you get it down. The dealer promises to change it... when they have the part in stock.
After months of consideration, we decided to purchase a Honda because of reputation, reliability, etc. I have ONLY 2700 !!!!! miles on the car, it's THREE MONTHS OLD and the Cam Shaft/Engine busted. Needless to say, we are "extremely" upset, but what makes it worse is the way the dealer has treated us. We had to fight for a rental which is so small I can't fit my family in it. The sales woman I dealt with was barely friendly when I had to personally go to the dealer to find out what happened to the van and the manager just sat there with a ****y attitude. Of course, they are replacing the "damaged" pieces, but who needs to spent $30,000 on a "brand new" car and now have one with a partially replaced engine????? Honda is also aware of this problem because it has back up engines to replace these. Is this car safe? Will I EVER go to this dealer again? Absolutely NOT!!!! And I'll make sure nobody else I know does either.
Loved this car until the transmission went at 30,000. No problems w/dealer as to no cost replacement under existing warranty, but I'm asking HONDA to provide me w/the 3/36 warranty for the remanuufactured one they put in and that they mention in their brochure for remanufactured transmissions. They were arrogant on first call saying that's nly for those who "pay" for a replacement and since mine is being replaced under warranty I haven't paid for it. Excuse me! I certainly did pay for it. I'm planning to continue the battle and bring attention to this w/our state's atty general office. Consumer reports survey arrived today and I'm letting them know about the problem. Noted last months consumer reports mag. has reliability rating of Odyssey in decline from past reviews. Transmission problems no doubt one cause.
Marginal quality van. I really dont see what all the hype is about. Everything seems to be average and even a little sub-par. With so much offered by other minivans, this one just doesnt seem that great. Plus, the styling is a MAJOR draw-back. Im just glad its my wife's, and not mine.
Strengths:
Engine is powerful, but if not running with premium gas there is a very noticable change. Good handling, ABS braking is nice, plenty of room, "magic seat"
Weaknesses:
Not very reliable, A/C compressor broke at 20,000; wiper motors replaced at 22,000; transmission replaced at 24,500. Lots of little noices (squeaks, rattles) can be heard. Power doors just plain suck, no over-ride feature. Driver's chair very uncomfortable. Stereo system is horrible, I would expect much better. Interior design and quality is sub-par. There aren't very many little nice extras you like to find in a vehicle like extra lights, timers on lights and locks, ect.
.
Strengths:
Engine is powerful, but if not running with premium gas there is a very noticable change. Good handling, ABS braking is nice, plenty of room, "magic seat"
Weaknesses:
Not very reliable, A/C compressor broke at 20,000; wiper motors replaced at 22,000; transmission replaced at 24,500. Lots of little noices (squeaks, rattles) can be heard. Power doors just plain suck, no over-ride feature. Driver's chair very uncomfortable. Stereo system is horrible, I would expect much better. Interior design and quality is sub-par. There aren't very many little nice extras you like to find in a vehicle like extra lights, timers on lights and locks, ect.
.
This car is nothing but problems! I've had it fo 2 years now and have put only 30,000 miles on it. Can't tell you how many times it has been in the shop. Every time I turn around there is another problem. Power sliding doors is one big
Transmission had to be replaced after
25k.
The A/C Compressor was replaced twice in less than a year .
The wipper motor went wrong after 30k.
Windows slip down allowing wind noise to enter the cabin.
Right now I suspect a front strut will die on me.
The steering became hard (might be a joint).
Dealer claimed that I just got a "bad unit" and the Odyssey is normally very reliable. And forget about Honda help for a "bad unit".
My first and LAST Honda product !
25k.
The A/C Compressor was replaced twice in less than a year .
The wipper motor went wrong after 30k.
Windows slip down allowing wind noise to enter the cabin.
Right now I suspect a front strut will die on me.
The steering became hard (might be a joint).
Dealer claimed that I just got a "bad unit" and the Odyssey is normally very reliable. And forget about Honda help for a "bad unit".
My first and LAST Honda product !
