qianlimoro

This my first post as a forum noob, moderators please be kind.

I've been lurking in these forums for a while now, and have been struck by the clear dislike shown by so may of the c230 coupes.

Aesthetics aside, MB-USA desperately needs such a vehicle, and may need to bring the a-class to our shores as well.

Forget the "gas guzzler" taxes you pay for the higher performing cars, Mercedes will face enormous fines if they cannot bring their "fleet" mpg average way up.

A recent US & World Report article shows Mercedes own 2011 mpg target 21% below the recently revised requirements. (Porsche however, is in a deeper hole @ 48% below target).

What can be done in 3 short years? The c-class coupe is almost certain to return to the US market as the CLC for '09, but to meet the fleet average, maybe they'll have to stop importing the v12's or some other dramatic or drastic measure.

So while the coupe purists may complain, "it a hatchback, not a coupe!", my 6 speed hatchback is really more fun to drive than the 190sl, and will probably help (as the CLC) Mercedes meet their 2011 fleet mpg requirements.

btw: love the forums, learned a lot so far, and no, I bought the 190sl used, but I did get the 300sel new (about $14,000 in 1971 if I recall).

Shake

I think it would be a great idea if they brought the a-class to the US. I'm sure those would sell out due to the current gas prices.

tommy

The Smart is selling suprisingly well, and has a waiting list that's probably longer than most of the high-end Benzes. The '09 Fit will be imported in much larger numbers than the first gen, and the small class as a whole is doing very well in the US. I'm not sure how well the B series is doing in Canada, but I'd imagine it's doing at least ok.

Mercedes will learn eventually that it's in their own interest to bring smaller cars to the US, and hell, even market them. With current gas prices, I can't see how the US perception can't change about smaller cars, esp. if MB allows them to be equipped appropriately. Of course, I've been wrong before. Until then, I'll enjoy driving my crx more than the coupey in summertime, and enjoy 35mpg.

amanonfire

Its doing OK, not well. Its priced similar to a GTI, A3 and C30, and now the 1-series. Personally, the B-series is fugly, and I haven't seen many on Canadian streets.

The Smart sold like hot-cakes when the Canadian government offered $2K "eco" incentives.

Those buying the Smart aren't very "smart" economically. The price difference on purchase and service costs are more than the fuel economy savings over 5-years of ownership of a Yaris/Fit/Versa, plus you get backseats! Over the long run, the Smart is expensive to maintain while the Yaris/Fit/Versa will flood the market with cheap parts.

amanonfire

Americans don't like hatchbacks, they have never sold well.
Honda won't even bring over the Civic hatchback, despite the Civic selling very well in NA.

A much better sales pitch than "hatchback" is "5-dr" with a vertical rear hatch, like the B-class. WRX, Mazda 3, ... "5-dr" models seem to sell well.

I very much doubt the CLC coupe is coming back to the US. Canada yes, the C-coupe has sold well here.

advans

yes! Smart Cars are everywhere now!!

California

i hope you are right about the CLC coming here. i even asked my MB dealer how much it would take to get one.

After having MB convertibles for 12 years, I was sick of not having any cargo space and snapped up the Coupe.

I think our collective tastes in the way cars look is about to be radically altered by the gas prices. Suddenly, i see rich old guys in Smart cars.

I heard the CLC also has better fuel efficiency than our older coupes.

I will be lining up to get one if they come here.

As for the hatch -- they resolved the design problem, pretty much. One bad thing about the CLC is they pushed up the badging and blocked out the tiny rear window. That rear window on the hatch is actually a safety measure.

Other than that, I am all for the CLC.

qianlimoro

So true. I'm sure that's why Mercedes called the c230 a "sport coupe".

It's often about image. That's why a "sport utility vehicle" that was never intended for (and incapable of) off-road use is still a SUV and not a "station wagon". Take them off the truck chassis and make them car based... station wagon? no, crossover...

advans

"Sport Coupe" terminology is great. better than calling it a hatchback. but. it really is a hatchback.

jedcred

Well, sport "coupe" is debatable, as the car is really a sport "hatchback." I've said this before, but the coupe is an anomaly in Mercedes' lineup, especially compared to BMW's. With a nearly $15k cost increase in finding a entry-level coupe design (the CLK350 of the C300 vs the 1-series or 3-series coupe of the 3-sedan) the hatch being sold as a coupe of the C just tries to obfuscate the obvious: Mercedes has no entry-level coupe option.

In any event, I'd rather see more displacement and engine types (diesel vs gas) options as offered in other markets rather than body styles. The CLC is not that much lighter than the C (assuming the CLC has similar weight to the C-coupe, which it should; Mercedes UK doesn't have curb weight). This doesn't speak to a much greater efficiency than the M271 on the same chassis, though MB UK lists the CLC 350 is able to get 37.2 mpg highway, but, if I remember correctly, the British mile is slightly different than the US mile.

I doubt it, though, that many people will buy an E 200 like the one that my cousin drives overseas, efficiency or not. That's not what Mercedes' brand is about, especially for its more wealthy customers, like those that buy S, CLK, CL, and SL classes.

qianlimoro

And there is the rub. The customer doesn't have to care about the efficiency, it's being federally mandated.

ChuckinTucson

I read a while back that MB had developed a new line of 4-cylinder diesels that averaged 45 mpg. I wrote an email to MB regarding them being brought to the US. Alas, no plans. Me thinks they need to re-think that.

If I'm not mistaken, the newest iteration of the BlueTECH engine will be 50-state legal.

jedcred

Excellent point!

I had heard there was some issue where certain diesel engines had trouble passing emissions tests because the emissions standard is determined by emissions by volume, as opposed to emissions per mile (this was in regards to one of those hyper-efficient vehicles powered by diesel engines). I wonder if that's been causing some issues with some of the newer diesel engines coming over.

qianlimoro

fyi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=temsdy-WFfM

youtube of CLC

http://www.usnews.com/articles/busin...age-rules.html

US News & World Report article regarding 2011-2015 mpg regs.

Interestingly, Porsche, Suzuki, Subaru, VW & BMW are ahead of MB (ie: farther away from their target fleet mpg).

C230 Sport Coup

Yo, Eraser head newb dude.....
We don't need no stinking defense.


More than 250K sport coups have been sold worldwide.
I eat 330's for breakfast. People love my car.
Wanna have some real fun? Springs, AMG Front sway bar, H&R rear and you'll have tears of joy streaming down your cheeks.

benz_addict

fdfsBzdgbv

FrankW

actually the CLK350 price range is very close to the 335i coupe nowaday. don't forget it is only in US that the CLK200k are not sold due to market strategy. one can argue that the 3 series coupe doesn't have a V8 to compete with the CLK550 which is true, but the two cars are indeed competitors.

anyways, back to the topic...to meet the 2011 mpg avg MB is now selling the Smart cars which is sold as part of MBUSA subsidiary, so they will help the mpg standard to avg out. I hope the B-class makes it to the US soon. I've actually see someone driving a B200 turbo recently around my house with CA plate.

Porsche and VW shouldn't have a problem making the requirement by 2015. all they need is introduce the TDI line-up in every model for VW and TDI line-up for the Cayanne and the upcoming Panamera.

Subaru probably have to start introducing FWD models to improve their mpg avg.

p.s. if they expect all the manufacturer meet the new CAFE standards they need to start killing....uh...i mean changing the CA emission standards to allow more diesel cars that can be sold here. Californians buy more cars than any other states.

qianlimoro

Indeed. No dissin' going on around here. Go to the 'coupes & cabriolets' boards and tell me that.

I love the car too (most of the time..).

qianlimoro

Yeah, those little Smarts are EVERYWHERE.

California sets the de facto standards in the U.S. auto market. If it can't be sold in California, we're not going to see it.

amanonfire

The craze will die off once the first maintenance bills come in, people buying cheap economy cars don't like to pay for $2-400 oil changes.
Moreso, like any trend, it'll die off when the market becomes saturated.

There was a waiting list previously for a Smart car, operative word, WAS. Instead I see more Yaris/Fit/Versa since they are a better buy.

tommy

Yeah, they really are becoming very popular, at least the Yaris and Fit. The Versa I think is a total misfire.

And I do agree with the sentiment here; a $15-20k car that's unreliable or expensive to maintain isn't much of a bargain. I do know that I'm probably back to Honda after the ccoupe gives up the ghost.

amanonfire

When my W203 finally bites the dust I'm going back to Honda/Toyota, so I completely understand. The new Si coupe is nice to drive, the interior materials just need to get a bit better (or Acura needs to offer a model based on the coupe, not the sedan... something similar to the previous RSX).

The Versa is the best bargain of the Yaris and Fit. Its cheaper, roomier, and drives nicer. Plus Nissan is giving them away with 0-0.9% financing. Plus the manual Yaris sucks, its like a truck shifter, way too long and mounted on the floor.

tommy

Ugh - upscale version is cvt only. Who in their right mind does that on an economy car? I had a Yaris 5-door when I was on vacation in Nova Scotia last year (don't know why the US doesn't get it) - was pleasantly surprised with it, even with the slushbox. Haven't driven the manny, but wouldn't doubt what you said; Honda's manuals are hard to beat.

Defiant

Aw, dammit. What'd they do with the tailgate window? Dammit.

Jah Know

I dont predict the CLC coming to the states, most coupe owners now will eventually upgrade, like myself, CLK, SL, G-class. IMO the coupe is a stepping stone into the MBZ community, its definately a benz because mine cost me almost 5k in repairs over the last years lol. But on the other hand, mercedes has so much more to offer in the line up, for this reason I do not belive that US buyers would be enthused enough about the CLC.