Evimero230

Im getting frustrated searching and finally going to embarassingly post this question...

but I just bought a 2005 C230 Sport Kompressor lastmonth.
The used car lot window sticker said I have a 1.8l 4cyl supercharged car

but Im thinking I have a 2.3l s/c

I went to the local MB dealership and got a Kleemann brochure and looking at the performance kit they have the m271 as a c180/200 1.8 kompressor and the c200/c230 m111 as a 2.3 kompressor
which makes me think I have a 2.3 m111

but

when I search on edmunds.com and look at the specs for my car it says I have a 1.8l s/c just like the used car lots window sticker

so can anyone enlighten me after you crack jokes?

e1000

you have the M271 1.8L Supercharged I4.

mtnman82

When you open the hood and look at the engine, do you see black or do you see a bunch of red? The 2.3 supercharged had red engine covers. The 1.8 has black. If it's stock, 2005 has the 1.8 (m271). Enjoy!

Evimero230

Alright Thanks! Guess I was hoping for the 2.3L then lol...
So which ones have the 2.3L s/c? My engine is all black btw.

and what is the stock hp/tq for my car? 271

if I searched correctly stock boost is 11 lbs?

is my m271 intercooled?

BabyBenz6spd

Yes

Cintoman

Horsepower for the 1.8L M271 Supercharged I4 is 189 hp @ 5800 rpm and 192 lb-ft of torque @ 3500 rpm

Cintoman

e1000

I believe the M111's were used between 2000 and 2003.

FrankW

C-class 99-2002
If you count the SLK then the engine was used from 97-2004

Glyn M Ruck

Why would you possibly want the 2.3l? - It was a rough, gruff, unrefined, fuel chewing, droner compared with the 1.8l. The M271 engine is far more refined, better balanced, free revving unit and sounds & feels like a real engine!

The M111 must have been responsible for more C240 sales than any other single reason. The small six was just so much better to drive & revved so freely - once you let it spin up. Yes the droner had more low down torque but was a rotten drive if you value all things Mercedes Benz

e1000

The 2.3 responds very well to mods.

Glyn M Ruck

Yes - That might be so but it is still a lump - the reason it responds so well to mods is that it was so poorly developed in the first place. Not one of MBs high spots and they know it. That's why they dumped it. Probably their worst effort since the W123 200 engine with all it's camshaft failures thanks to harmonics. Almost got Herr Max Gehring fired.

SeaCoupe

Are you mad? The rough sound bothers me zero. The added power of putting on a pulley and gaining 30 horse and 20+ torque thrills me quite well.

Why is it a rotten drive, because you don't like the engine noise? I found the C240 to have a higher roll center, too much sway, and dull driver feedback. See, I am attributing the suspension to the drive, not just some engine sound.

Was the E55 engine poorly made because it was modifiable? See your logic doesn't apply there. Don't know anything Herr whoever, but I treasure the engine. I have the engine out of a much more expansive Mercedes for so much less.

C240 vs M111 = Crushing defeat
M271 vs M111 = about equal

Now you mod the M271 and the M111, and you go back to crushing defeat.

As for gas mileage, in good tune I can get 33 mpg on the hwy.

E

SeaCoupe

I just attempted to google Max Herring. Found nothing concerning the M111.

Want to compare failures of M271 eninges to M111. Its a discussion you'll not fair well in.

Want to compare the years the M271 was used to the M111?

How about that fun old Carbon Build up?

Recalls?

Please, by all means elaborate on something other than engine noise.

E

drexappeal

Okay, so for all the "NEWBS" posting in here. There have been MANY on here with m111 engines that have completely modded the m111 to be a sleeper and a half when it comes to power. You can research back when some of the vets had been looking into power mods and see the difference.

There have been MANY on here who have modded the m271 engines (including myself) that haven't accomplished anywhere near what has been done on the m111.

I own a m271. I am a proud owner of a m271, but by NO MEANS would I ever say that it is a "better" engine than the m111. The m111 was around for SO much longer than the m271 and for good reason. That's why they brought it back for the coupe!

The main reason they made the m271 was to adhere to the consumers that would complain about the m111 being to "noisy" and "rough." What that did, in turn, was limit the capacity of what any enthusiast could do with the m271 engine without A LOT of money to put into very custom power modifications.

kompressor85

fuel chewing? my 02 c230 just turned 89000 and is running like a top, 23-30mpg depending on atmospheric conditions and how heavy my foot feels. the only thing is that the lifters tap for 3-5 secs on a cold start.

droner? its way more modify-able than the m271 thats for sure.

and i've got cat-back exhaust, air filter, supercharger pulley, and water injection. my car runs like a bat out of hell. and save for once, yesterday in fact, has never even broken down.

Glyn M Ruck

Yes, by your measures I'm Mad That does not make it so. I'm an MB traditionalist - that's the feel I like - I'm not a boy racer and I have no intention of taking my car on a track - I can think of better things to take on a track

-I'm not just talking about Sound/ Noise - I'm talking about NVH - a very different subject in it's entirety
-I agree that the M271 has been more prone to failures - mainly cylinder head - and mainly in areas where fuel does not match up to Eurograde 95 +
- Max Gehring was involved with the woeful old W123 200 engine. He was head of initial & service fill product approvals for all Benz vehicles - cars, trucks, busses, Unimog, tractors - the whole lot and was blamed for approving lubricants that permitted the W123 200 camshaft failures before Benz understood the mechanism of failure was harmonic related and had nothing to do with lubrication - the fix - a camshaft damper and dual gang chain that moved the critical frequency - it was still a bum engine - just lasted a bit longer after the mod.
- The M271 engine is still in production so we can't make a lifecycle comparison
- I stand by what I said - the logic is sound
- I'm not trying to punt the 2.6 V6 particularly. I just like Benzes with at least a 6 cylinder engine. My next Benz will have at least a six cylinder engine with the only possible exception being the 1.8 Diesotto hybrid. The NVH engineering on this engine is reported to be superb and it will leave your modded M111 engine firmly in the dust bog standard.
- I was encouraging a new buyer that he had not made a bad choice and I believe that.
- My dislike for the M111 4 banger remains and is common around the world from ordinary owners to the motoring press alike. Some of us don't like vibration tingling through all the controls or it's high RPM breathlessness & harshness. Maybe modded with open exhausts the whole affair makes so much racket you don't care. It's horses for courses. As for crushing defeats well that's so much nonesense!!
Good Day

Glyn M Ruck

Hey Drex, where did you get that sign? I love it!

There are going to be times that the "NEWBS" disagree with the old guard - that's progress???

I'm about to revive the only thread I"ve started to date after months of STFF. I want the VETs to comment - someone must know something

drexappeal

Hahaha...Yeah, I just wanted to test it out. Someone used it on another forum. Just right click and you'll see the properties (in case you want to save it and host it on your own picture server).

SeaCoupe

It is clear that you will not give any credit to the M111. I don't have a problem with that honestly. What I was picking on was the comment above:

"the reason it responds so well to mods is that it was so poorly developed in the first place."

On its face that commentary is likely the most foolish comment I have ever heard remarked about any engine. Mercedes or otherwise. Are the legendary engines of our time Poorly developed because tuners can extract additional power out of them? Admit your oafish comment. Most gearheads know that stock engine power is a compromise of duty life, cost of manufacturing, and available engineering.

You are comparing an engine developed in the 90s to something developed in 2000s. So, leaving your stunted engine commentary, I'm pleased when engines, drivetrains, and exhaust are developed well from the factory. They did the M271 as well as they come. So, yes, it makes phenomenal power at the cost of some reliability.

I'm not a boy racer either. If I want to autocross I take my Bertone X1/9. I think I'm pushing somewhere above .86G both left and right in that car.

Talking about Max G., serves to dampen your argument a bit, or perhaps I'm not seeing what you are saying. I'm not familiar with NVH, but look forward to learning about it.

- I'm not trying to punt the 2.6 V6 particularly. I just like Benzes with at least a 6 cylinder engine. My next Benz will have at least a six cylinder engine with the only possible exception being the 1.8 Diesotto hybrid. The NVH engineering on this engine is reported to be superb and it will leave your modded M111 engine firmly in the dust bog standard.

Are you talking about a new engine? Yep, that comparison of a mid 90's engine to Mid 2000 engineering. You win, but we all knew that. Stating the obvious is your only talking point?

So, in closing here, you don't like the M111, no problem, but I personally don't have tingly feedback in my controls, nor do I wear aluminum foil hats. But hey, if I could get better gas mileage that way, I likely would.

e1000

lol, look what I started..... and I don't have either engine!

FrankW

M112K and M272 FTW! until the 55k and 63 smack you in the face.

Glyn M Ruck

Let's leave it at that before Drex has a hernia. I ran a race team for my company & later for sponsors most successfully for many years - both bikes & cars over the years - I do know something about engine design and modification and have probably spent more time in the dynamometer room than most on this forum. An underdeveloped engine is a tuners delight because you can extract so much more out of it without necessarily making it fragile. Poor inlet systems, rough cast manifolding, poor flanging, lousy head castings that allow you to make wonderful improvements on the flow bench etc. ad nauseum. Let's not start on the electronics. Why you can't understand this principle and find the comment oafish is beyond me. I'm quite satisfied that most people that understand fair English would have no problem with it.

Let me assure you everytime a new Honda V4 engine hit our race shop we would have it apart in no time to see where Honda had been careless in production. In those days heads and cam gear drives were particularly lousy and allowed for amazing improvement with decent porting, 3 angles on the valve seats, matching combustion chambers. re-machining & loosening up the gear drives - plasti-gauging a loosening up bearing clearances - tightening piston to bore clearance etc. These are the things you can do to underdeveloped engines. Look at a modern Integra type R engine - it's a masterpiece because the factory does all these things and it doesn't break. The standard cooking model of the engine does not see this attention to detail.

Also be careful of comparing decade of design and considering all newer engine designs to be superior. Mercs old late 70s early 80s 280 Twincam 6 was a masterpiece as was Toyota's 4 AGE Twincam 16. Granted modern materials have made certain design execution easier.

If you want me to say that the M111 is a tough & durable if slightly crude affair with poor NVH engineering that was easily modded I'm more than prepared to say that - hows that?

If you really don't understand NVH (noise, vibration & harshness) engineering - I'm not sure if you are having me on - Then there are some very good publications available and you can Google the subject for some very good commentary - only warning - don't believe everything you read on the Internet

Glyn M Ruck

Don't worry - It's all great fun - You must love sitting in your armchair watching - people take it all so seriously - It's facinating looking at different perspectives held on some things around the world - I had a M111 powered Benz from new for 5800Kms before selling it to make yet another overseas move - so I know the beast - Vowed I would never buy another 4 banger - it's not for me.

Glyn M Ruck

An absolute classic! I now have it saved - Please take a look at my revived thread on defaulting the display to show temperature - It must be possible but how? Was hoping one of you VETs could help

alpinweiss

The one area in which the M271 beats the M111 and all the V6's is fuel economy. This is both in the EPA ratings and real world driving.

NVH is an emerging science, and most new engines are better than their predecessors. Although the M271 has a sport exhaust, the sound is smooth and melodious. The engine has almost no detectable vibration through the steering wheel or elsewhere, especially on cars with the 6-speed manual.

In terms of modifying the M271 engine, it seems hardly worth the effort. Gains are modest at best. The factory mostly optimized this engine. This is not necessarily a bad thing; most BMW's also now come optimized from the factory.

In short, the OP should feel good about purchasing the 2005 C230K. Enjoy your new Mercedes.