DCX Engineer

My C230 goes to the dealer Monday for ESP and BAS System Malfunction Errors. I have seen the message twice, but has not appeared in the last three trips. The malfunction goes away at vehicle shutdown/restart.

I have searched previous posts and am still confused. Is this a config problem, wire harness connection problem or sensor problem???

Buellwinkle

It's a quality control issue at MB, they just can't seem to make reliable cars. If it wasn't for the free car washes and MB loaners I know I wouldn't be driving a Benz...

bajaiman

I've got the ESP/BAS error messages quite a lot on the C32, took it to the dealer and found out that the rear speed sensor (or something like that) is not working properly, they replaced that particular part and never got a single ESP/BAS error since then.

Apollo

Hi

According to my service manager it is a wiring issue and they have to order a kit. He said he is waiting for a few and they are on backorder. Sounds like a design issue to me that they are struggling to fix.

C230Komp

This week, I got the ESP and BAS System Malfunction Errors on two occasions, but the malfunction goes away at vehicle shutdown/restart. Also this week, cruise control just shut off while doing 70. Same thing happened the next day. Sunroof started rattling too. Sounds like crap. Guess I gotta schedule another freakin' visit.

Jim Banville

EVERY car maker has quality control issues. Name ONE that hasn't had a recall or compaign on a defective part. PLEASE NAME ONE!
Anyway, we had the ESP/BAS warning display. A single, PAINLESS trip to the dealer fixed it. No big deal

Buellwinkle

I've never owned a car with the quality control issues that MB has. I've had stuff fixed on my car in it's first year that my 2 other cars combined haven't needed in 5-6 years. You can love your car enough to justify it's issues but that doesn't make the car reliable. Don't get me wrong, I love my car despite all it's issues maybe in the same way a mother loves a retarded or handicapped child. You love it more because of it's shortcomings. And I think MB planned it that way. Similar to the Chicago Cubs dedicated fans.

DCX Engineer

My wife is always ragging on my car for its various warranty problems. It has been the worst I have had for number of issues, but I get wonderful treatment at my dealership. I don't even get free cookies and weekly car washes!

The most reliable new vehicle we have owned was our 1999 Dodge Stratus 5-speed with 132hp 2.0L engine. It was also the cheapest at $13,100 with employee discount. My mother-in-law now owns it and it has over 85,000 miles (all care-free).

Buellwinkle

I was truly hoping that the merger would bring some quality control and mass manufacturing techniques from Chrysler and combined with excellent dealer service at MB they would have the ultimate product. I keep hoping!

FrankW

you joking, right?? Chrysler has some of the worse quality control ever in the car market. Merger helped Chrysler to get the great quality control of MB. A lot of parts in the car like the sensor and so on are not manufactured by MB but by other company who supplies them. Complaining about something this little that can be fixed with ease it's pointless.

mleskovar

Today's standards dictate that cars should be trouble free....that means no problems. An 'easy fix' problem is even more aggravating. Assuming that a consumer has/wants time to repair mistakes is the joke. Unfortunately it's the baggage we carry to have/drive a car we find superior...when it's doing what it's supposed to.

Outland

I've still never returned to the dealer for ANYTHING. Most trouble free car Ive ever owned.

Buell, I tend to think you exaggerate. And your experiences do not make ALL MB's unreliable. The most unreliable car I ever owned was a Honda Accord...it made your MB look bulletproof. And Hondas are regarded as troublefree products. I had a 70 Opel GT that was a notoriously troublesome car, yet it had more run time than the Honda.

Planned it that way? Pulease.

Apollo

This is my first MB, I have always had Fords due to company car policy and when I bought my own I can get a big discount due to family working for Ford.
I can safely say that I have had more problems with the MB due to quality in 4 months than I did with the last 3 Fords over about 10 years.

I wish people would stop trying to fool themselves into thinking it is normal to have these problems. My car is great but the faults are just not acceptable and signify both poor design and quality control. MB choose to put all of this technology into these cars and as such have a responsibility to ensure they are thoroughly tested. If my car had been produced in the first year of the design then there would be some excuse.

Jim Banville

Well, I too get a family discount on Ford products. The '01 Expedition we traded in on our C240 had to have the following items replaced within 1 year of ownership: transmission, rear window wiper motor, front driver's door window regulator and radio. Now, what prioirty is quality at Ford? Job #1? I doubt it

I'm still waiting on Buellwinkle to name a 100% reliable car maker Mercedes reliability is average or a little better as long as you stay away from the G or ML classes. I didn't expect more.

jrct9454

...Apollo is a UK forum participant. He's been driving UK Ford products, which have proven to be MUCH more reliable and better put-together than their USA counterparts. The Focus is a hit in Europe, and at the same time has a dodgy reputation in the USA, because of the differences in quality between the suppliers used in the UK/EU and those in North America.

And this is the tale with MB - the entire German car business is much too tolerant of suppliers who produce sub-standard parts and assemblies; one of the reasons the Japanese are so consistently superior in these areas is because they work so hard to qualify the people they hire to supply their plants, and jump quickly on problems before they get out of hand.

So far, our '02 C240 automatic, produced in Bremen in January of 2002, has been trouble-free [knock on wood]. The only thing we've worked on was the wheel alignment, which we knew about when we bought the car, and which has been successfully dealt with.

Anyway, comparing Ford quality in Europe with Ford quality in North America is a futile exercise - they share nothing but sheet metal [in some cases, and in most cases, not that either] and the badge. Everything else, with the exception of some shared drivetrain components, tends to be unique to each market, to the detriment of US buyers.

Outland

You bring up some good points...however, isn't the North America Focus built in Mexico...with a lot of the parts coming from mexico? Ive never been keen on using mexico for car manufacturing, and all the ones that I know that are built there are prone to quality and reliability problems...the Neon/PT Cruiser, Volkswagon's Beetle, Golf and Jetta, the Sentra, etc....

I think the Japanese are no longer bulletproof either. Mitsubishi quality and reliability never really existed, Nissan's have been hit or miss for years, and even Toyota has had some quality/design issues recently. Honda's S2000, RSX, and Odessey minivan have all been rather unreliable vehicles. The S2000 made #3 on the lemon law claims list last year. The RSX has had numerous engine failures and oil consumption is the norm...the Minivan has had several recalls, and still is plagued by electrical gremlins, doors that open on their own, transmission failures under 20,000miles, and engines that consume oil. When you add in their well documented automatic transmission failures in Accord and CL/TL models, Honda doesn't any different than any other manufacturer.

DCX Engineer

The Ford Focus is built outside Detroit at their Wayne Assembly Plant. Ford may have more than one plant for N/A Focuses, but I know there is one in Michigan.

The PT Cruiser is built in Mexico, but the Neon is built in Belvidere, IL.

The warranty issues I've had with my C230 have been minor, but numerous. I purchased my MB for long term reliability and superior design, not necassarily built quality.

None of my six new DaimlerChrysler products (1 MB, 4 Dodges, 1 Chrysler) have ever left me stranded on the road. My GM vehicles did. I have never owned a Ford.

DCX Engineer

When I dropped the car off the tech said that he has seen this before and the problem resides in a connector. He said they have not had a re-occurance once the parts were replaced on other cars.

I picked up the car late tonight and the parts replaced were:

(1) 001-997-83-90 Clamp
(1) 203-540-47-33 Electric Cable
(3) 001-546-99-41 Cable Connector

I enjoyed their silver 2002 E320 4Matic for the day.

Apollo

Hi

I can only really speak as I find. I had a Ford Mondeo for 4 years prior to the MB. The only problem I had in 4 years (80,000 miles) was the airbag warning light flashing other than wear & tear items. Never needed a loaner as they picked my car up from work and returned it the same day. My father in law now has the car. Ford have a very good reputation generally in the UK for reliability.

In 5 months (9000 miles) with the MB, 9 days off road and another 2 on 2nd Jan:

- Complete new auto transmission
- ESP/BAS warning display (only once though)
- Coolant & washer warning displays flashed up together
- Slight rattle in dash
- gear stick trim came loose
- pulling to left a lot
- vibration sound when accelerating hard from left

Need I say more.

Rightly or wrongly the expectations in UK with MB are that they are virtually bullet proof, people who have never had an MB cannot believe I have these issues. We pay a lot for these cars.

I have built up this feeling now that I am wary of pushing the car in case something major happens, I think you build up confidence in a car over a period of time and unfortunately I do not have that feeling at the moment.

viper

The 4-door sedan is built at Wayne. The 2-door coupe and the station wagon come from Mexico. The dozen or so recalls this car has suffered is not entirely due to bad assembly quality. It is because the lowest cost supplier that Ford selected for many of the parts has poor quality. The basic design of the car is good. The execution is flawed. As long as the accountants run the domestic car companies the lowest cost supplier will always win and the customer will lose.

DCXdynodog

your clueless, right?

With the amount MB spends per vehicle produced, they should be flawless and absolutley perfect with awesome reliablility. You can't blame things on suppliers, the manufacturer's should buy from reliable sources, it is the manufacturer's responsibility.

FrankW

No car will be flawless, even the most expensive ones. I'm not blaming anyone. When my car has the ESP/BAS warning, i just take it to the dealership and have it fixed when i have the time. Not a big deal, i don't sit around and complaint about it.

i don't understand why is it the manufacturer's fault when the same parts that are used throughout MB's lineup, some fail and some don't.

Apollo

I totally agree, but I would change the wording slightly to:

with the amount WE spend per vehicle

DCX Engineer

I complain when I may be driving in 5-7" of snow with no ESP. I did enjoy the E320 4Matic loaner.

Matt230K

The ESP still works, even when it gives you the error message. At least it did for me, and some others here have said that too.

BTW, DCX Engineer, I see in your sig that you have C240 wheels on for winter. How does that look? I am using the stock 16" coupe wheels for winter. But I may give them to a friend with a C240 to use year-round and use his wheels in the winter. Does it look okay with those wheels?