C-Class (W203) 2001-2007, C160, C180, C200, C220, C230, C240, C270, C280, C300, C320, C230K, C350, Coupe

reliable MBs. history?

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Old 01-02-2003, 11:30 PM
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I love this quote in the article, it's so true -

There is a ***** in the Teutonic armor, and Lexus has found it. Use impeccable service to deliver luxury cars that don't need fixing

My only issue with Lexus is that their cars seem to get uglier every year. The ES300 got ugly, the GS300 was always ugly and the IS300 is just too small and ugly. I wish that Lexus made cars that looked better like Infiniti but I can't bring myself to buy an Infiniti after my bad experience with them. If I didn't hate Infiniti so much, the G35 coupe is a very nice car.
Old 01-03-2003, 12:46 AM
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Re: reliable MBs. history?

Originally posted by seen
hi,

i have just got my 2003 C180k, on the 20th of dec. i returned it to the dealer on the next working day (23th), since it frequently dropped the first gear. now they removed the whole transmission took it apart and still looking for the problem (anyway i doubt that the local MB service can properly handle a transmission issue).
they gave me a class A as a replacement which is by no means comparable to my C (and also a diesel with auto tranny).

i would think that a problem like this should have been sorted out BEFORE delivery. at least this is what i expect from MB.

i wonder if you had better experience in the UK/US or Canada.
I returned my c230k the next working minute, right after I tried to drive off the lot and I could not shift.

1st and 2nd gear syncronizers were junk and they airfreighted a complete new trans in from Germany. (USA here) It was installed in few days and has been ok so far. They also claimed to update the shifter.
I told them I was aware of trans issues (thanks to all on this forum-take a bow guy-n-gals) and recieved a denial and a groan about "that damn internet is more trouble..."

You deserve to get a brand new transmission as well.
Old 01-03-2003, 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by Outland
No, but every mustang Ive ever been in has that same cheaper than K-Mart interior, the same weatherstriping/filler foam piece falling out around the A-pillars, the same abysmal build quality, and that same loud THUNKING noise when you slam the door or go over a bump...yup, that big clunky undamped door handle makes the noise. Watch it bounce when you shut the door.

I've rented Mustangs numerous times on business trips. 1 had to be left in a different city because of overheating on a trip to Kansas City, and Ive had two that kept lighting up the check engine light. The last one I rented kept 'chimming' every 30 seconds when the airconditioning was on. Trouble free cars? Pulease. And despite the faults, I still like the car. It looks good, handles decently, and offers a lot of performance and style for the money.
That weird. I had my 96' Supercharged mustang for 5 year without a problem and track runs on the weekend here at Race City Speed Way doing 12's 1/4 mile. I abused that car so much but still ran wonderfull till the day i sold it.

It was a lady who bought my car. I saw her couple months ago. Asked how the old stang was holding up. Her respond was:

Wonderfull.......


So you tell me Outland, if i put that much abuse on my C230 that i put on my mustang what would happen to the MB? I love my little C230 but a blown gasket at 16000km come on. I wonder what would have happened if i drove this car like i did my Stang. Let's not compare these two cars.
Old 01-03-2003, 12:54 AM
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'06 Lexus GS300 RWD, '07 Camry SE V6 auto, '91 190E 2.6 auto
maybe if I get another one it will be like Jim's flawless car.
I wish my car was flawless! It has had several SMALL problems. I consider it reliable because it has never "broken down" or had a serious problem. It has several "bugs" that have been fixed or will be shortly. Here's a list of "nuisance" problems that, in my opinion, haven't affected the drivability of the car in the 7 months (15K miles) I've owned it, and don't make it unreliabile transportation-
1- sunroof creaks very slightly on occasion
2- ESP/BAS malfuction light : fixed on single trip to dealer
3- right rear window's express up doesn't always work
4- front rotors warped : may have been caused by me spraying cold water on them while still hot
5- 1 service engine light : dealer said it was probably a misfire a start-up
6- a loose connection in the truck-lid keeps 1 of the 2 license plate bulbs from illuminating all the time
7- just discovered a hairline crack in the left steering wheel up arrow (^) button : did my wife do it with a fingernail?
8- tiny chip in gear indicator window on center console discovered when we bought car - dealer replaced
Now, some people would say this list proves the car is a POS! Not I. EVERY new car I've ever bought has had several small "nuisance" repairs in the first year of ownership. Several of these problems were, or may have been, human error (did spraying cold water on hot brake rotors cause warping?, etc.). And every car I've owned with a sunroof has had a creaking sound from the sunroof at some point (radio off/driving over serious bumps, etc.). And if the car didn't tell me one of the two tag lights wasn't illuminating, I'd never know it. Since the single occurance of the service engine light went out after the car was started a second time, most people would have just forgotten about it. The crack on the gear selector and steering wheel button were most likely caused by human abuse or carelessness. 99.999999% of my car works perfectly. I'm happy with it. I predict all these little nuisances will shake themselves out in the next few months and I'll continue to drive a very reliable car. That is until I trade it in on a new E class in a year or two

Last edited by Jim Banville; 01-03-2003 at 01:01 AM.
Old 01-03-2003, 01:49 AM
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Gee, Jim, I'd think that 99.9999999% of owners here would say that yes, your car has been unreliable. I still do not see your problem with admitting that MB is not near the top of makes for reliability.

And there is enough data to see the trends - MB is average. Not awful, not great, but in the middle. Look at any of the published data, and you'll accept it eventually, I hope.
Old 01-03-2003, 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by nboyd
If this was a Ford, Toyota, Ipod, Compaq, Honda, Rolls Royce or Nestle forum, you would have people complaining that the product was not reliable.

Nathan
not Toyota or Honda I bet !! LOL

go to the Lexus IS300 forum !! hummm strange they have very few probs on their and it is a new model for 2001 (same as W203).
Old 01-03-2003, 07:32 AM
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2002 C230 Coupe(M111)
Originally posted by Iceman's C230

So you tell me Outland, if i put that much abuse on my C230 that i put on my mustang what would happen to the MB? I love my little C230 but a blown gasket at 16000km come on. I wonder what would have happened if i drove this car like i did my Stang. Let's not compare these two cars.
Perhaps you should try it and let us know.

1) I didn't make the comparison, someone else started it. I'm merely chiming in with my experiences.

2) Go find ford on the JD power surveys...it won't be at the top, either.

3) I never claimed MB's were the most reliable car on the planet...just disputing the usual 'MB's are crap' for reliability tag line I hear over and over from someone here.

4)Your experience. Not mine. Ive owned a Taurus, a Probe, the Probe was OK reliability wise...the Taurus was not. My sister has had two mustangs, both of recent vintage. The second one has been problem free...but not the first...it actually was returned to the dealer shortly after purchasing, didn't make it a day without problems.

5)most unreliable car Ive ever owned? A Honda Accord...seriously, and this is from the bullet proof company?
Old 01-03-2003, 09:33 AM
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'06 Lexus GS300 RWD, '07 Camry SE V6 auto, '91 190E 2.6 auto
I still do not see your problem with admitting that MB is not near the top of makes for reliability.
PLEASE quote where I have ever said that MB wasn't average for reliability in general! I consider my MB reliable because I have never had anything put piddly nuisance issues that some people would never give a second thought to and continue to drive, and drive, and drive.... NEVER ONCE have I had a performance related issue. This car has NEVER let me down in providing reliable transportation.

Look at any of the published data, and you'll accept it eventually, I hope.
Accept what? You must be confusing me with someone else


go to the Lexus IS300 forum !! hummm strange they have very few probs
I was looking at www.is300.net yesterday. PLENTY of problems!
I guarantee you that had I got a brand new IS300, or any other car, I could post at least a short list of "nuisance" issues similar to my C240.
Old 01-03-2003, 10:00 AM
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'06 Lexus GS300 RWD, '07 Camry SE V6 auto, '91 190E 2.6 auto
Here's a short list of the MANY problems listed in the general forum at www.is300.net for the "trouble-free" LEXUS....
instability ECU recall shifting prob stupid lexus tech suspension prob tire prob re-fueling prob tranny prob CLANK from front end more bad sounds key fob not working creaking sunroof -IMAGINE THAT! moisture in headlights

I could go on, but I have better things to do
Old 01-03-2003, 11:18 AM
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funny Jim...what ya do a search for "PROBLEMS"...sure there will be some...but looky here...this is from CLUB LEXUS...there is no talk of reliability/probs, etc.

After my experiences with this car, I can honestly say I'm disappointed with the overall quality of MB. I think you've just been lucky so far, good for you !! my feeling is that tomorrow you could go out and start your car and have a lot of probs...yes its under warranty, but its a pain to fart with IMO. I really like my 320, I just have big worries after the warranty expires.

Last edited by bagwell; 01-03-2003 at 11:36 AM.
Old 01-03-2003, 11:19 AM
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part 2 notice anything here ???

only ONE problem listed!!!
Old 01-03-2003, 11:43 AM
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Jim, you've been doing a nice job holding your own with the 3-4 resident naysayers we have here.

My experience with my first and only MB has been very positive... The car always starts, goes into gear, drives from point A to B without complaint, stops when requested. The power steering, heater and A/C always work. My sunroof doesn't rattle at all. This is MY experience.

Yes, my glove box lid was installed slightly eschew (uneven gaps), but this is a "delivery defect," not a "reliability" issue, as the glovebox is not necessary to drive me from point A to B. (Dealer fixed without complaint, just like delivery defects on every other car I've ever owned.)

Yes, on occasion, my right rear window's One-touch Close function needs to be resync-ed... A feature the average CL-Class owner might never observe, yet gets heaps of attention on this forum. In neither case is it a reliability issue. One-touch Close on a REAR window isn't even available as a feature on 90% of other cars.

I'd agree that MB is about average with "delivery defects."

I've had an equally reliable Ford Probe (never even had to align the wheels the first 75,000 miles), yet my son's Taurus required $800 of shock tower mods in order to perform a simple wheel alignment. It seems that wheel alignment is a spot-welded at the factory feature on early Tauruses.

I have no experience with Lexus, but I did replace a head gasket on my Honda Accord at 58,000 miles... a true reliability issue I would have expected on a Ford Escort (which were known to detonate at 60K with regularity). I also had to replace my Honda's starter at 38,000 miles (right after my 36K warranty expired) Since I was stranded on the side of the road, I count this as a "reliability" issue, especially since most cars never require a starter replacement. It's early to tell, but so far, my C320 is more reliable than my Honda Accord.

I've owned two Nissans without any complaint (defects or otherwise) yet it's upmarket sister Infiniti has problems, according to some.

Certainly, a new Coupe with a non-functioning tranny should be replaced (the entire car, not the tranny) with another car, period. Here in the states we have 3-day buyers remorse return privileges. But I understand this is not the case everywhere.

However, I would just be happy if people here could separate delivery defects from reliability issues.
Old 01-03-2003, 11:53 AM
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'06 Lexus GS300 RWD, '07 Camry SE V6 auto, '91 190E 2.6 auto
funny Jim...what ya do a search for "PROBLEMS"...
Nope. I just copied a few topics from the first few pages of the forum.
Old 01-03-2003, 11:57 AM
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I agree 100% Bob (everything was fine with my car until about 13000 miles).

but - I differ in your opinion of reliability.

If my a/c compressor has to be replaced 10 times even though my car still runs and drives fine, I would NOT consider the car reliable. (this is just an example)

how would you feel in this situation? (not considering the lemon law)
Old 01-03-2003, 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by bagwell

but - I differ in your opinion of reliability.

If my a/c compressor has to be replaced 10 times even though my car still runs and drives fine, I would NOT consider the car reliable. (this is just an example)
It sounds to me that it's your SERVICE dept. that is unreliable. Not the car.

We have a 2000 Accord and, to make a long story short, has horrible QUALITY. It's very reliable but, poor quality. My MB has far less rattles, shakes, misalignments than our Accord.
Old 01-03-2003, 01:28 PM
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i bought my volkswagon in feb of 2000. during its 24/24000 warranty, i replaced 3 instrument clusters, sunroof rails, fuel pump (brunt out because gas gauge was inop), O2 sensor 2x, plastic trim which fell off the roof, 2 check engine lights and 1 airbag light. it isnt what i would consider a lemon, its reliable and i havent any issues with it in nearly 14 months. then again it was only a $22k car so i cant expect perfection, and atleast the service was done. like most cars i expect there to be some defects to a point. im not going as far to say the door should fall off and just accept it, but thats why we have warranty to fix those defects.
Old 01-03-2003, 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by avlis
We have a 2000 Accord and, to make a long story short, has horrible QUALITY. It's very reliable but, poor quality. My MB has far less rattles, shakes, misalignments than our Accord.
that particular Accord was prob built in the US
(I don't kow if they all are or not)

the Honda Civic Si that is imported to the US is actually built in the UK !!! Look in the door jam !
Old 01-03-2003, 01:42 PM
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'06 Lexus GS300 RWD, '07 Camry SE V6 auto, '91 190E 2.6 auto
I may be completely wrong, but weren't cars built in the UK some of the worst as far as relaibility? Didn't Jaguar, Range Rover, Aston Martin, etc. have terrible reliability before Ford bought them several years back? I remember reading one of those horror stores from a guy who bought a new Range Rover several years back. I think he discovered several problems with it as he drove it home

Surely you can't blame M-B for a dealer that can't seem to repair an A/C can you? Do you actually think that 10 M-B A/C compressors, IN A ROW, were defective?
Old 01-03-2003, 01:55 PM
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Yes, I believe our Accord was built in the US. And your car was built on the last day of Octoberfest. :p

Seriously, my point is that NO make or model of car should be expected to be free of defects. Just like not all lottery tickets you buy should be expected to be winners.
Old 01-03-2003, 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by MB-BOB
Here in the states we have 3-day buyers remorse return privileges. But I understand this is not the case everywhere.
It's not the case in California. They have big signs in all the dealerships that say "NO COOLING OFF PERIOD !"

I wonder if these signs are posted because in a majority of states there is one.

Cheers, BT
Old 01-03-2003, 02:11 PM
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'06 Lexus GS300 RWD, '07 Camry SE V6 auto, '91 190E 2.6 auto
Bagwell, we'll test drive the GS300 next weekend when we head up to ATL. We like our reliable C240, but it is smaller than what we really want/need. My wife REALLY wants the new E320, but it does seem VERY expensive. I thought the lauded G35 sedan would be a good alternative to the E320, but a test drive a few weeks ago showed it to be loud, uncomfortable and "cheap" feeling. Hopefully the GS300 will be better If money were no object, we'd just get the E, but at $10K cheaper, the Lexus seems like a VERY NICE alternative, although it's looks are somewhat dated and can't compete with the E, in my opinion. Any word on a re-design for the GS line?
Old 01-03-2003, 02:21 PM
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Jim, what's a really nice, elegent car with plenty of room is the Audi A6 and for under 40K is a good alternative should you want to stay with a European car. Certainly worth a test drive. What I've noticed about Lexus cars, specially the GS300 is that they are not very safe. A friend with a GS300 got t-boned by a Nissan Sentra near my house, the Sentra was damaged but not excessively for the accident, the GS300 looked like it was run over by a tank and not one of the many airbags fired, needless to say, he doesn't drive a Lexus now.
Old 01-03-2003, 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by Jim Banville
Bagwell, we'll test drive the GS300 next weekend when we head up to ATL. We like our reliable C240, but it is smaller than what we really want/need. My wife REALLY wants the new E320, but it does seem VERY expensive. I thought the lauded G35 sedan would be a good alternative to the E320, but a test drive a few weeks ago showed it to be loud, uncomfortable and "cheap" feeling. Hopefully the GS300 will be better If money were no object, we'd just get the E, but at $10K cheaper, the Lexus seems like a VERY NICE alternative, although it's looks are somewhat dated and can't compete with the E, in my opinion. Any word on a re-design for the GS line?
Jim, I can't remember if the new GS is due in 04 or 05 ??
The option package prices are just crazy on the GS. I almost traded my C320 for a 2001 GS300 with 28k miles for $31k - included the 7 year 100000 warranty. But I've decided to stick it out with the MB for now.

have you given up on the Eibach's for your C240 ?
Old 01-03-2003, 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by Buellwinkle
Jim, what's a really nice, elegent car with plenty of room is the Audi A6 and for under 40K is a good alternative should you want to stay with a European car. Certainly worth a test drive.
I'd second this recommendation. A guy in my office just bought an A6 - it's a very nice car. The front is only slightly roomier than a C, but the rear seating area seems much bigger (and can easily seat two large adults).

The new E is super-sweet, though. I spent an afternoon at the MB E-motion event - great car! If MB could sell the E320 for less than $40K they'd bury Lexus.

Cheers, BT
Old 01-03-2003, 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by trench
The new E is super-sweet, though. I spent an afternoon at the MB E-motion event - great car! If MB could sell the E320 for less than $40K they'd bury Lexus.

Cheers, BT
maybe an E230K sports sedan!!! :p :p


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