Spoonie

You mean to tell me that a can't get the rear end to slide in the C-Class. I keep reading that you can't completely turn off the Traction control. If this is true I'll stick with BMW.

TimmyC230boy

you can do it. You hit a button on the dash and its off. Simple as that. Fishtail as much as you want.

tommy

Well, with the dash button depressed, there's still some residual effect of ESP. There is an easter egg for totally switching it off, though.

Spoonie - STFF for threads on totally turning off the ESP.

However, if you want that much fun, you should probably stick with the 330.

Spoonie

Thank You. I can't wait for the C320 6-speed Sport.

TimmyC230boy

yes there is. if you really get it going crazy i think ESP will stipp "kick-in"

avlis

Wrong. Turn off ESP and you can do as many slides, donuts, fishtails as you want.

KWiK

I don't seem to have a problem getting the tail out with ESP off.

TimmyC230boy

I stand corrected

oggle

How good is this ESP thing?

If I were to floor it and make a 90 degree turn will my car not fishtail?

How about if I make a hard turn and step on my brakes all the way? Will ESP automatically not apply the brakes on certain wheels to minimize skidding?

Matt230K

That's a good question. If you're already on the brakes, what can ESP do to save you? I'm guessing it will release pressure at certain wheels to keep you in control. But you might be able to get it into a spin this way that ESP can't really get you out of, at least not right away.

KWiK

I think it's time someone went to a skid pad and give us the real answer

TimmyC230boy

I certainly think there are some things ESP cant save. technology can't overide physics. But most things it can. you take a corner too fast and ESP can probably save you. try to take a 90 degree turn at 120mph, and it will try, but i think you'll still be out of control

oggle

Yes that's true. What I was asking about though, was if someone made a reasonable hard turn (one that would not lead to a loss of control had the brakes not been engaged) with the brakes fully engaged (one that would lead to fishtailing without ESP), how effective would ESP be?

Whew what a strange long sentence!

avlis

All I can tell you is that I live at the top of a hill. The front entrance road is short and steep with a few turns, the rear is gradual and more winding. The road is completely packed with snow (no pavement visable). I've driven up and down both roads dozens of times during the past few days with ESP on and ESP off. With ESP on, I have not been able to spin the car out. Not while stopping, not while accelerating, not uphill, not downhill. The ESP will make the car come to (almost) a complete stop before it allows a spin. My max speed on these snow covered roads is usually 30MPH. I don't have the guts to try these manuevers at higher speeds on snow.

Oggle,
I don't think the situation you describe would cause a fishtail. Instead, I think it would understeer (at least... that's what happens when I hit the brakes hard while turning on snow). Either way, ABS modulates the brake pressure to keep the car going the direction the steering wheel is pointed.

pokerFACE

nm

patronus

It is absolutly true that ESP or any other system cannot repel the laws of physics. They simply maximize the traction you have.

ESP makes the assumption that the opposite end of the car has more traction than the end that is sliding (first). For example, when oversteering (fishtailing) the system takes advantage of the fact that, most times, not all 4 tires are skidding. It brakes the outside front tire, ususally employing ABS.

Now, if you go so fast around the corner that all 4 tires are sliding at once, the system has no leverage with which to get you back on track and will be way less than effective.

It is a very impressive system, but it cannot get you out of trouble in extreme cases.

Also, my experience is that the braking effect of ASR is left on when the ESP is turned off. There is power to override this braking effect at speed, but doing a good burnout is very difficult .

AndrewK

ESP is pretty good. The newer versions are also much better than the older ones. For example, I was WAAAAAY loose in the wet (in my dad's 2000 C230) before ESP saved me, but in the 2002 C230 it will sense it much earlier and cut power before you get into big trouble. Its really shocking how effective the system is (old or new), and it comes VERY close to reversing the laws of physics!

Its also very possible to get loose with ESP off. Just the other day I had a very nice power slide coming out of the mall.

BlackC230Coupe

Who told u this?

I can tell u with personal experience from today when i was with my friend leaving a shopping plaza i made a left turn accross an intersectin and showed my friend with ESP off how easy it is to slide. I flored the car around the turn and the car was just sliding on dry pavement very easy, i can tell u that if u dont know what u are doing with ESP off u can get into some serious trouble, i luckly was able to recover it very qucik as i started to loose ALOT of control.

I can throw my c230 out with ESP off almost as easy as my CLK430.

Matt230K

I finally tested my car in the snow today and it was impressive. It was really only a light covering of snow, but it was freezing and got very slick. So I turned some donuts in a parking lot with ESP off. What I was impressed with was how easy it was to countersteer and just drive right out of the spin.

Then with ESP on, I just kept driving in circles with the pedal down, and it just kept on going in circles, no spinning out. Not as much fun, but nice to know it's there if you need it. And in the driveway to my apartment complex it was this slick. I stayed on the throttle and the esp light kept flashing but I was driving straight on down the road.

Outland

To date, the only manuever that Ive found will trip up ESP is fast off throttle oversteer on very slippery roads. The momentum simply needs bleed down before ESP can react...or maybe it is reacting, and I would be looking at a spin out without it.

I have nothing but praise for the system. ESP Rocks! My father didn't believe me when I told him how good the system is...we had to drive into a snow covered parking lot before he relented.

FrankW

hehehehe... I can get the tail out a little bit without touching the ESP. Then it'll cut off and slow the car down.

jswedberg

Me too. I wish they would temper that "cut-off" a little. More than once I wanted to turn left at a stop light with on-coming cars, and nearly wet my pants when the engine shut down in the middle of the intersection!

The only other time I really notice ESP (in a bad way) is lurid burnouts, which I suppose is a little juvenile!
But there is that ESP switch, if I really want to make smoke! Not that I would do that of course. So immature

Many C32 guys just flick ESP "off" each time they start the car.

BlackC230Coupe

That has been my habit latley on both my cars.

FrankW

I would probably never turn the ESP off as I don't think I have enough experience yet.

BlackC230Coupe

are u crazy?:p u never turned off ESP?