whitecar2003

Just got back from the Detroit Auto Show and spent some time lookking at the 1.8L cutaway.

Couldn't believe how small the oil filter was on the back of the engine. I'm exagerating a bit, but the cartridge only looked to be as thick as a D-cell battery and only 2-3 "batteries" long. Really tiny. Also, unlike many of the V engines, the thing was on the back of the engine, i.e. hard to get to. Many of the Vee's had much larger cartridges right up front where it would be easy to change. They did have a C320 Coupe (6-spd) on display. Very cool! Wish I would have known and I probably would have waited the 6-months.

Back to my question... Anyone change oil yet on their 2003 C230K? Just curious if it was a pain getting to the filter cartridge from the top and if you ran into any problems. I just hit 2000 miles and I think I'll change pretty soon, just in case any "junk" from the block or head machining made it into the oil stream... then I'll wait for my "freebie" at the 10K service A.

Thanks!

levelr123g

Well first off no JUNK made it into the oil, this is an old school train of thought and it doesnt happen. There is no way a modern engine leaves the factory with loose metal particles all in it, it just doesnt happen.I wouldnt worry about it and take the free oil changes when they recommend.

Jim Banville

THANK YOU!

whitecar2003

Actually, it's not that uncommon. I've worked for two 'modern' engine manufacturers over the last 10 years and things like chips from machining and even core sand from casting are not unusual. In addition, normal break in of main and rod bearings tend to put a little metal into the oil.

Now remember modern engine oil and filtration is very good at isolating (encapsulating) these bad things and keeping them away from the microscopic oil films that keep your engine parts alive... but a little insurance can't hurt.

Jim Banville

Any half decent filter would catch those. End of story. It seems the way some people talk, they forget there is a filter in there

speedfrk

whitecar, if changing your oil gives you peace of mind, then by all means do it. When I took my car in for the excessive oil consumption, the first thing they did was change the oil before doing the test. Most of the motorcycle manufactures still recommend a 600 mile service including an oil change. So there is not universal agreement on this issue. My friends who just bought a new Infinity had to bring it in at 1000 miles for its first change. Cheap insurance if it is a concern for you.

DCXdynodog

It seems the way some people talk, they do not know this little tidbit...

Filters have bypasses on them in case they get clogged or in case the temperature is low and the viscosity of the oil is too high. They work on pressure differential. If the bypass was not there in cold climates bearings could get starved during warm up.

So, yes, some debris will make it into the oil and places it should not be. Synthetic oil does help this and modern filter systems are very good but the situations do exist for this to happen and it will to some extent.

Modern engines are machined to better tolerances than ever before but, some debri always makes it into the engine oil and past the filter. It will not destroy the engine but, it is most certainly best to change the oil/filter after say 500-1000 miles or so if someone is willing to do so.

This is what I do for a living Jim, build and run engines. Have for a long time. Every engine we break-in on the dyno gets the oil/filter inspected at least twice during the break-in and guess what? There's stuff in that there oil

Jim Banville

Point is that you have 4 years/48,000 miles for those few tiny pieces of debris that were left in the motor until the first regular free oil change to cause a problem. If you're motor seems healthy just before the warranty runs out at either 4 years/48,000 miles, I think you'd be safe to assume that that debris didn't do diddly

speedfrk

And what about people like me whose cars use about a qt every 2-3000 miles. Should we also assume everything is ok? Know much oil does a MB have to use before they will do anything to fix it?- the spec is 1 liter/1000KM. That is crazy for a modern engine. They told me mine was well within specs at 1 qt/3000 mi. I think changing your oil after 1000 miles is a good idea. MB doesn't do it because it costs them extra. Funny that Infiniti does it for free. You look at things through your rose colored "very reliable" C240 glasses, and some of us have to look at things from a different perspective because we have cars that are truly a disappointment.

whitecar2003

Hate to be a broken record, but no one has answered my question yet...

Again... Has anyone personally changed the oil on their 2003 yet? On the 1.8L cutaway it looked like the filter would be a pain to get to and I wanted to hear from someone who has done it to see if there were any tricks, special tool for the tiny cartidge top, etc.

Thanks in advance 2003 owners!

Jim Banville

Sounds abnormal to me Speedfrk. Sorry you got a lemon. If my car lost a qt. every 2K miles, it'd be bone dry at the first dealer service! As it was, we have already had our 10K service and are currently at 15K miles. I've never checked our oil a single time or had a low oil warning. But I do have the V6 Another reason to prefer it over the 4-banger (a friendly jab at those lusting over the C230K)

eggy168

i'm a new babie to the c230k.
The dealer told me I don't have to change the oil 'til the computer told me, I just so worry about now because it is about 8000 miles. Is anyone can help me to solve this problem?
Thanks.

Jim Banville

Why worry? If you can't here valves rattling, or you aren't getting a low oil warning screen, you're probably okay.

mctwin2kman

The funny thing is that any car my father ever sold from his dealership that was new had an oil changed at the 1000 mile mark. Especially forcedm induction ones. It was recommended my Chrysler to do this with every new car. They did this because supposedly the engine oil of course would pick up any dirt or debris in the engine and then you could get rid of most of it by changing the oil. I am going to do my own after the first 1000 miles. So if someone does find this filter before that I would like to know as well. I get my car tomorrow so I will look then.

Matt230K

How long ago was your father selling cars? I think they used to recommend doing it at 1000 miles in the past. But I don't think it is as important now because engines are built much better and because of synthetic oil. I changed mine at 5000 just because it was pretty black, but I don't think you need to do it at 1000. But do what you like, better safe than sorry.

DCXdynodog

Great advice again Jim, drive it till you hear a funny noise then worry.

DCXdynodog

5000 miles would be a more reasonable oil change interval. Synthetic oil does not break down, but it does get dirty and that is why it has to be changed.

The dealer has a "window" of 8000-12000 miles to charge MB for the services so take your car in every 8000 and have the services done. Your car will thank you.

DCXdynodog

Turbo and supercharged engines can have very rich WOT calibration at times to keep temps in line. Chrysler turbo engines certainly do, this large amount of fuel does not completely burn and some of it can make it past the rings. The oil can get diluted with fuel sometimes depending on conditions, we have seen this on the dyno but it is not necessarily representative of what will happen in the car as the durability tests are very aggressive. This would certainly be worse in the first miles before the rings get seated well. Could be where the reasoning for that recommendation came from.

Jim Banville

I'd worry (about some things, but not this) if I didn't have a warranty, which I do. Who here doesn't have a warranty on a NEW car? Isn't this thread about changing the oil early on a NEW car? And IF you did hear a noise from low oil, you have time to fill'er back up before any harm is done. When I was a teenager, my Chevy Beretta's engine starting making rattling noises. I thought it was from "*******" it out. Turns out it was low on oil. That was about 10 years ago. That car is still used everyday and the engine still runs PERFECTLY So I'd say my advice (on this, and most other things) is right on target, wouldn't you?

speedfrk

No

Matt230K

I also say NO. You may not be keeping your car out of warranty, but someone will be owning it. Wouldn't you hate to be that person that bought a car that wasn't taken care of properly? I know I would. It may last a while, but if you do preventative maintenance, it will last longer still.

Jim Banville

It all boils down to what's reasonable and logical. Is it reasonable to change the oil every approx. 10K miles as recommended by the people who built the engine? Is it logical to not trust them because MB probably recommends 10K mile intervals because it is either too cheap to do a free oil change every 3K-5K miles or they want their long term reliability to suffer even more than it has by having their engines fail, and therefore you change the oil every 5K miles? How about every 1K miles? Is that reasonable? Of course not, but using your logic, "it can't hurt", right? You guy's are stuck on oil change intervals based on what your daddy's taught you. Go ahead and change the oil as often as makes you feel happy. Change the air in your tires while your at it

Oh, will it? Based on this advice, all other things being equal, will an engine with its oil changed every 5K miles, last longer than one which has its oil changed every 10K miles? Will an engine with its oil changed every 1K miles last longer than an one which has its oil changed every 5K miles? Will an engine with its oil change every 500 miles last longer than one which has it oil changed every 1K miles? Can you prove any of these or are you just making assumptions?

Matt230K

I didn't name any specifics like that. I just said that preventative maintenance, including other things besides oil, will generally make a car last longer. I think most people would agree with this. You're surely not going to tell me that preventative maintenance makes a car die sooner, are you?

I'm also not saying that it's wrong to do the 10K oil change like MB recommends. I'm just saying that your idea that you don't need to change it until you hear it making strange noises is flawed. Those noises are not warnings. That is the sound of things in your engine wearing down.

Jim Banville

No offense to you, but I have never been to a forum with such poor reading comprehension. PLEASE post where I said you should use engine noise to determine when to change your oil! I said that there is no need to "check" the oil in this car between computer determined oil changes UNLESS you get a low oil warning message or you hear rattling (valves). An engine will make those noises if it is low on oil. Do those noises indicate immenent damage? I stated that the lowly engine in my old Chevy made rattling noises some 10 years ago due to low oil, and it is still running strong today. Would I, knowing what I learned then, check the oil of any car immediately if I heard rattling valves? YES! Would I obsess over the oil level in my new "under warranty" Mercedes if I was NOT getting a low-oil warning message and I heard NO valves rattling before the first computer scheduled oil change? NO

And my somewhat ridiculous example of changing oil at increasingly closer intervals was meant to point out the erroneous "assumptions" people make about what a modern engine, used in conjuction with modern synthetic oil, "needs".

Matt230K

Not in those exact words, but there was a post by someone who said they were worried if they should change their oil at 8000 miles, and you said to not worry as long as you aren't hearing valves rattling. I'm not trying to say that you said something you didn't, but it is possible for people to interpret things you say in different ways.