Oil
12-10-2008, 06:28 AM
#26
Super Moderator
I am sure I can explain it, here is the Sesame Street version:
To make cars lighter many aluminum components are used. Aluminum is resistent to corrosion by its nature, however, galvanic action between the aluminum and steel or galvanized parts can lead to severe corrosion.
There are any number of chemical solutions to provide an effective barrier between the dissimilar metals and microencapsulation is the technique used to carry a plastic sealing material to the point of use in Mercedes cars. This is used on the oil drain plug, on brake caliper bolts, and suspension fasteners. The process places the sealant inside wee tiny little ***** (microscopic in nature.) The wee tiny ***** protect the sealant from contamination until use. When the fastener is installed, the wee tiny ***** are crushed releasing the sealant. The torque specification must be carefully measured to ensure the wee tiny ***** are properly crushed to release the sealant.
Microencapsulation has many uses, from the International Space Station to Scratch-N-Sniff perfume advertisments in magazines.
With several hundred copper alloys available and numerous washer type specifications available from ANSI and DIN, "anything that fits" is hardly the road one should take when maintaining machinery.
Dude, I did my homework.....Amway and Mary Kay use the same marketing style of using dealers in a people to people direct marketing arrangement. Nothing wrong with that, except it balances significant costs of distribution and sales on the dealers. Have you ever been to the Amsoil plant in Wisconsin? You will notice that railroad cars come to a siding behind the packaging building. These cars are laden with raw materials from Shell Oil Products Co. (and other refiners.) The products are pumped into several large storage tanks from the railroad tankers. Amsoil then blends and bottles their products for sale to consumers. I made the comment because Pennzoil is a brand name owned by Shell.
I invite your attention to Star Bulletin P-B-01.45/15. Ask your dealer for a copy.
To make cars lighter many aluminum components are used. Aluminum is resistent to corrosion by its nature, however, galvanic action between the aluminum and steel or galvanized parts can lead to severe corrosion.
There are any number of chemical solutions to provide an effective barrier between the dissimilar metals and microencapsulation is the technique used to carry a plastic sealing material to the point of use in Mercedes cars. This is used on the oil drain plug, on brake caliper bolts, and suspension fasteners. The process places the sealant inside wee tiny little ***** (microscopic in nature.) The wee tiny ***** protect the sealant from contamination until use. When the fastener is installed, the wee tiny ***** are crushed releasing the sealant. The torque specification must be carefully measured to ensure the wee tiny ***** are properly crushed to release the sealant.
Microencapsulation has many uses, from the International Space Station to Scratch-N-Sniff perfume advertisments in magazines.
With several hundred copper alloys available and numerous washer type specifications available from ANSI and DIN, "anything that fits" is hardly the road one should take when maintaining machinery.
Dude, I did my homework.....Amway and Mary Kay use the same marketing style of using dealers in a people to people direct marketing arrangement. Nothing wrong with that, except it balances significant costs of distribution and sales on the dealers. Have you ever been to the Amsoil plant in Wisconsin? You will notice that railroad cars come to a siding behind the packaging building. These cars are laden with raw materials from Shell Oil Products Co. (and other refiners.) The products are pumped into several large storage tanks from the railroad tankers. Amsoil then blends and bottles their products for sale to consumers. I made the comment because Pennzoil is a brand name owned by Shell.
I invite your attention to Star Bulletin P-B-01.45/15. Ask your dealer for a copy.
But wait folks for the next chapter from some smart *** as to why they choose to ignore Benz service & service product recommendations. There are 2 idiots on this thread alone using the wrong engine oil.
12-10-2008, 06:57 AM
#27
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1. Slow down there buddy. All above mentioned oils are great. Just because MB says to use Mobil 1 doesn't mean that your car's motor will go south because you poured RP or Amsoil. We ALL LOVE OUR MB'S and just want the best for our investment. I like RP because I have used it in many MODIFIED app's such as sport bikes ATV's and other cars in which it has never given me an issue with. I have seen this oil go in my very good friends 972WHP supra and have no issues with his car aswell.
2. don't go calling people idiots (me included) for not using MB's recomended oil.
This forum is to enjoy the exchange of information between owners so that we can enjoy our cars and our passion for them.
just my .2
2. don't go calling people idiots (me included) for not using MB's recomended oil.
This forum is to enjoy the exchange of information between owners so that we can enjoy our cars and our passion for them.
just my .2
12-10-2008, 09:08 AM
#28
Super Moderator
1. Slow down there buddy. All above mentioned oils are great. Just because MB says to use Mobil 1 doesn't mean that your car's motor will go south because you poured RP or Amsoil. We ALL LOVE OUR MB'S and just want the best for our investment. I like RP because I have used it in many MODIFIED app's such as sport bikes ATV's and other cars in which it has never given me an issue with. I have seen this oil go in my very good friends 972WHP supra and have no issues with his car aswell.
2. don't go calling people idiots (me included) for not using MB's recomended oil.
This forum is to enjoy the exchange of information between owners so that we can enjoy our cars and our passion for them.
just my .2
2. don't go calling people idiots (me included) for not using MB's recomended oil.
This forum is to enjoy the exchange of information between owners so that we can enjoy our cars and our passion for them.
just my .2
I'm from the industry & know what I'm talking about. What irritates me is that people come on the forum and are given wise advice & then someone without the requisite knowledge derails that and gives poor advice & advice that could effect warrantee.
Moviela is a man in the street that has taken the trouble to aquaint himself with the facts & I applaud that. Read the thread that I have posted a few messages up. There are very good reasons for using 229.5 products.
I did not call you an idiot but if the cap fits wear it. You selected yourself an idiot or you would not have replied. my 2 cents
By the way - I've run both bike & car racing teams. The requirements for a race engine are quite different to those required to stay in the sump of a passenger car for 15,000Km
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 12-10-2008 at 09:12 AM.
12-10-2008, 12:33 PM
#29
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1. Slow down there buddy. All above mentioned oils are great. Just because MB says to use Mobil 1 doesn't mean that your car's motor will go south because you poured RP or Amsoil. We ALL LOVE OUR MB'S and just want the best for our investment. I like RP because I have used it in many MODIFIED app's such as sport bikes ATV's and other cars in which it has never given me an issue with. I have seen this oil go in my very good friends 972WHP supra and have no issues with his car aswell.
Unfortunately, it has not been demonstrated to comply with MB 229.5. The company may simply have opted to not have their product tested. But it still is not recognized by Mercedes as meeting their lubricant requirements.
An example. I have a C230K with the M271 engine. It is supercharged, and therefore under a lot of stress. If I were to have an engine failure related to lubrication, I may have a difficult time pursuing a warranty claim if I have used a non-approved oil. But, if I can prove my oil meets the 229.5 specification, they will have little basis for rejecting a claim.
In the USA, Mobil 1 0W-40 is one of the few products that meets MB 229.5. I am not trying to promote sales for Mobil. There are other oils that meet the standard. Examples are Elf and Total. Unfortunately, they are difficult to find in the US, since they are mostly for the European market.
12-10-2008, 01:06 PM
#30
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So your talking about a thread sealant, whicj can be reapplied to the drain plug if you wish. Bottom line is that you reuse the drain plug, or at least I have since 2003, and my drain bolt doesnt leak!
I also use a standard copper crush waher available from Auto Zone, Pep Boys, etc. Again, no problems.
As for Amsoil. yes they do buy their base from other companies, but the bottom line is their oil works, so there!
Amsoil also offers a guarantee that if their oil causes any mechanical related engine damage, they will replace/repair the engine.
I think your a little too caught up on the specs of the oil. I have run 0-30, 10-40, 20-50, and now 5-40 in my 03 v6 motor, and it still runs strong, doesnt smoke, and gets 27 mpg.
Glyn,
I am not using the wrong oil, and my benz does say to use Mobil1, right under the hood! So?
As for Amsoil again, we use it in our 1800hp Mustang with no problems, and only change it once every season. www.roncoxracing.com
If you are replacing drain plugs every time you change your oil, then you are wasting a ton of money. Ive had my oil changed by benz once or twice, and I have never seen a drain plug on the service ticket. So what your telling me is that MB techs, are also ignoring their own service recommendations?
I also use a standard copper crush waher available from Auto Zone, Pep Boys, etc. Again, no problems.
As for Amsoil. yes they do buy their base from other companies, but the bottom line is their oil works, so there!
Amsoil also offers a guarantee that if their oil causes any mechanical related engine damage, they will replace/repair the engine.
I think your a little too caught up on the specs of the oil. I have run 0-30, 10-40, 20-50, and now 5-40 in my 03 v6 motor, and it still runs strong, doesnt smoke, and gets 27 mpg.
Glyn,
I am not using the wrong oil, and my benz does say to use Mobil1, right under the hood! So?
As for Amsoil again, we use it in our 1800hp Mustang with no problems, and only change it once every season. www.roncoxracing.com
If you are replacing drain plugs every time you change your oil, then you are wasting a ton of money. Ive had my oil changed by benz once or twice, and I have never seen a drain plug on the service ticket. So what your telling me is that MB techs, are also ignoring their own service recommendations?
12-10-2008, 01:37 PM
#31
Super Moderator
So your talking about a thread sealant, whicj can be reapplied to the drain plug if you wish. Bottom line is that you reuse the drain plug, or at least I have since 2003, and my drain bolt doesnt leak!
I also use a standard copper crush waher available from Auto Zone, Pep Boys, etc. Again, no problems.
As for Amsoil. yes they do buy their base from other companies, but the bottom line is their oil works, so there!
Amsoil also offers a guarantee that if their oil causes any mechanical related engine damage, they will replace/repair the engine.
I think your a little too caught up on the specs of the oil. I have run 0-30, 10-40, 20-50, and now 5-40 in my 03 v6 motor, and it still runs strong, doesnt smoke, and gets 27 mpg.
Glyn,
I am not using the wrong oil, and my benz does say to use Mobil1, right under the hood! So?
As for Amsoil again, we use it in our 1800hp Mustang with no problems, and only change it once every season. www.roncoxracing.com
If you are replacing drain plugs every time you change your oil, then you are wasting a ton of money. Ive had my oil changed by benz once or twice, and I have never seen a drain plug on the service ticket. So what your telling me is that MB techs, are also ignoring their own service recommendations?
I also use a standard copper crush waher available from Auto Zone, Pep Boys, etc. Again, no problems.
As for Amsoil. yes they do buy their base from other companies, but the bottom line is their oil works, so there!
Amsoil also offers a guarantee that if their oil causes any mechanical related engine damage, they will replace/repair the engine.
I think your a little too caught up on the specs of the oil. I have run 0-30, 10-40, 20-50, and now 5-40 in my 03 v6 motor, and it still runs strong, doesnt smoke, and gets 27 mpg.
Glyn,
I am not using the wrong oil, and my benz does say to use Mobil1, right under the hood! So?
As for Amsoil again, we use it in our 1800hp Mustang with no problems, and only change it once every season. www.roncoxracing.com
If you are replacing drain plugs every time you change your oil, then you are wasting a ton of money. Ive had my oil changed by benz once or twice, and I have never seen a drain plug on the service ticket. So what your telling me is that MB techs, are also ignoring their own service recommendations?
DTM cars in Europe also run sealed engines - but refer to my racing comment above.
Out of interest sake - why do you think Benz run an approval programme?
12-11-2008, 03:54 AM
#32
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2005 C Wagon (No snickering please!)
If you are replacing drain plugs every time you change your oil, then you are wasting a ton of money. Ive had my oil changed by benz once or twice, and I have never seen a drain plug on the service ticket. So what your telling me is that MB techs, are also ignoring their own service recommendations?
The MB Techs are following the WIS and using a pump to extract the oil through the dipstick tube. There is no reason to remove the plug on C class cars.
Some other Mercedes cars have a divided sump, and extraction cannot reach the oil on the other side of the divider.
I feel you are missing that there are two reasons for the microencapsulated hardware. One is to seal properly for the smaller molecules of the specified oil, and to insulate and prevent corrosion caused by the galvanic response of having dissimilar metals in contact. Galvanic currents will cause electrons to leave the aluminum block, converting it to a weak porus structure of aluminum and aluminum oxide.
Some people like old-fashioned ways. I took a pallet of Coors to India this summer and showed the local crew how to use just their hands to remove
the twist-top. They still went and got an opener.
12-11-2008, 10:52 AM
#33
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Well is all I can tell you is that from experience, I have never seen a corroded drain plug on a car, at least none of my cars. I have also never seen a correded drain plug on a motorcycle, from when I was a MC mechanic for many years. Ive just never seen it! Also, I have never seen any manufacturer request that a drain plug be replaced on every oil change. As for the syphoning of oil from the crankcase, you are probably do more damage to your engine , then letting it drain properly from the sump. The pump method is to reduce time, however it doesnt really take me any longer than draining it fromthe bottom.
You speak of galvanic response, over and over, however I believe that you need an electrolyte between the metals in order to cause a galvanic response. e.g salt water,
The requirements for bi-metallic corrosion are as follows:
An electrolyte bridging the two metals
Electrical contact between the two metals.
A difference in potential between the metals to enable a significant galvanic current
A sustained cathodic reaction on the more noble of the two metals.
Look you do whatever it is you wish, and believe whatever theories you want to in regards to all this MB hype. Ill keep changing the oil from the bottom, reusing my drain plug, and my copper or aluminum crush washers, just like 99% of other vehicles do on the market.
You speak of galvanic response, over and over, however I believe that you need an electrolyte between the metals in order to cause a galvanic response. e.g salt water,
The requirements for bi-metallic corrosion are as follows:
An electrolyte bridging the two metals
Electrical contact between the two metals.
A difference in potential between the metals to enable a significant galvanic current
A sustained cathodic reaction on the more noble of the two metals.
Look you do whatever it is you wish, and believe whatever theories you want to in regards to all this MB hype. Ill keep changing the oil from the bottom, reusing my drain plug, and my copper or aluminum crush washers, just like 99% of other vehicles do on the market.
12-11-2008, 08:00 PM
#34
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And I believe 229.51 superseeds 229.5.
FWIW, I've been using AMSoil for a long time on five different vehicles including my E55 with no problems. My Service Advisor is even a dealer for it.
12-11-2008, 08:43 PM
#35
Super Moderator
229.51 is for diesel only - See my new thread - Definitive App------
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 12-13-2008 at 06:00 PM.
12-12-2008, 09:26 AM
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AMSoil would actually have to reduce the quality of their oil to meet the 229.5 standard.
12-12-2008, 12:53 PM
#37
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Not so - They would have to meet a different set of test criteria. Diesel engine oils are not better than petrol engine oils - they are different. eg. Diesel oils have to combat high temperature sludge. Petrol engine oils have to combat low temperature sludge and so on. Don't get tied up in the numbers.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ments-usa.html
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 12-13-2008 at 06:00 PM.
12-12-2008, 02:26 PM
#38
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Not so - They would have to meet a different set of test criteria. Diesel engine oils are not better than petrol engine oils - they are different. eg. Diesel oils have to combat high temperature sludge. Petrol engine oils have to combat low temperature sludge and so on. Don't get tied up in the numbers.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ments-usa.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ments-usa.html
12-12-2008, 03:09 PM
#39
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Stay away from mouse milk peddlers & marginal brands.
By the way, another not so subtle difference between diesel & petrol engine oils is that petrol engine oils are formulated to protect your catalyst & HDMOs are formulated to protect particulate filters on diesels - Conflicting technology.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 12-13-2008 at 06:00 PM.
12-12-2008, 03:13 PM
#40
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Glyn, is absolutely correct.
As an AMSOIL dealer and user, I can tell you of many conversations I have had with AMSOIL tech on the MB specs of their European oil (Product code AFL). 229.51 supercedes 229.31, and 229.5 supercedes 229.3. 229.5 and 229.51 are 2 totally different specs and are NOT interchangeable. As Glyn has pointed out 229.5 is MB current gasoline engine spec, and 229.51 is MB current diesel spec. So, no matter how you slice it AMSOIL 5W-40 European oil does not meet current MB specs for gasoline engines, and is not approved for use by MB.
With that said, I don't think there is anything wrong with using it in a current MB gas engine, with these caveats:
1)If you are under warranty, then you are at risk that MB will not honor the warranty for any engine related issues.
2)Do NOT follow the MB change interval. You must perform proper oil analysis to determine the proper change interval of the oil in your particular application.
Since I have done my own analysis on Mobil 1 0W-40, and have compared specs of AMSOIL 5W-40 European to Mobil 1 0W-40, I suspect, that the AMSOIL will do just fine in MB engines, but I doubt it will make the full 13K change interval.
But, at the end of the day, I still think it is better to stick to MB recommendation and run any 229.5 spec oil you choose and change at the recommended intervals. And quite frankly I have found Mobil 1 0W-40 is a damn good oil, readily available, and easily lives up the the MB change intervals, as I have proven through my own oil analysis. My only gripe with the oil is, it shears to a 30W oil very quickly (Though it starts out as barely a 40W), and shows a little bit higher lead numbers than I like. On the shearing issue, I don't see it as much of a issue though, as there are a few 229.5 spec 5W-30 oils (So that proves the engine doesn't specifically need a 40W oil). Also, the fact that it is a light 40W and shears easily to a 30W, just make it a more fuel efficient oil.
As an AMSOIL dealer and user, I can tell you of many conversations I have had with AMSOIL tech on the MB specs of their European oil (Product code AFL). 229.51 supercedes 229.31, and 229.5 supercedes 229.3. 229.5 and 229.51 are 2 totally different specs and are NOT interchangeable. As Glyn has pointed out 229.5 is MB current gasoline engine spec, and 229.51 is MB current diesel spec. So, no matter how you slice it AMSOIL 5W-40 European oil does not meet current MB specs for gasoline engines, and is not approved for use by MB.
With that said, I don't think there is anything wrong with using it in a current MB gas engine, with these caveats:
1)If you are under warranty, then you are at risk that MB will not honor the warranty for any engine related issues.
2)Do NOT follow the MB change interval. You must perform proper oil analysis to determine the proper change interval of the oil in your particular application.
Since I have done my own analysis on Mobil 1 0W-40, and have compared specs of AMSOIL 5W-40 European to Mobil 1 0W-40, I suspect, that the AMSOIL will do just fine in MB engines, but I doubt it will make the full 13K change interval.
But, at the end of the day, I still think it is better to stick to MB recommendation and run any 229.5 spec oil you choose and change at the recommended intervals. And quite frankly I have found Mobil 1 0W-40 is a damn good oil, readily available, and easily lives up the the MB change intervals, as I have proven through my own oil analysis. My only gripe with the oil is, it shears to a 30W oil very quickly (Though it starts out as barely a 40W), and shows a little bit higher lead numbers than I like. On the shearing issue, I don't see it as much of a issue though, as there are a few 229.5 spec 5W-30 oils (So that proves the engine doesn't specifically need a 40W oil). Also, the fact that it is a light 40W and shears easily to a 30W, just make it a more fuel efficient oil.
12-12-2008, 03:27 PM
#41
Super Moderator
Sorry John - I edited the above & our messages crossed.
Designing a 20,000Km drain HDMO moves the formulation into compromise when it comes to 15,000Km petrol drain.
Many oils will do OK at shorter drain interval & your comments are spot on.
I had no idea you were an Amsoil person. I'm not trying to knock your product. I'm trying to ensure that people look after their MBs & maximise service life. You & I sample our oil regularly and know what's going on. Most don't & should stick to the OEM recs.
That's why I posted my https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ments-usa.html to try & help.
I also try to use basic terminology on the forum which probably makes me sound simple. But if I start with all the oilco jargon - heaven forbid the level of communication I will achieve.
Designing a 20,000Km drain HDMO moves the formulation into compromise when it comes to 15,000Km petrol drain.
Many oils will do OK at shorter drain interval & your comments are spot on.
I had no idea you were an Amsoil person. I'm not trying to knock your product. I'm trying to ensure that people look after their MBs & maximise service life. You & I sample our oil regularly and know what's going on. Most don't & should stick to the OEM recs.
That's why I posted my https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ments-usa.html to try & help.
I also try to use basic terminology on the forum which probably makes me sound simple. But if I start with all the oilco jargon - heaven forbid the level of communication I will achieve.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 12-13-2008 at 06:01 PM.
12-12-2008, 03:42 PM
#42
Super Moderator
My only gripe with the oil is, it shears to a 30W oil very quickly (Though it starts out as barely a 40W), and shows a little bit higher lead numbers than I like. On the shearing issue, I don't see it as much of a issue though, as there are a few 229.5 spec 5W-30 oils (So that proves the engine doesn't specifically need a 40W oil). Also, the fact that it is a light 40W and shears easily to a 30W, just make it a more fuel efficient oil.
This is why Mobil 1 formulations other than their Euro formulations are not approved as I mention in Definitive .....
Yes, Mobil 1 0W - 40 is a darn good product. They are the opposition from my perspective but their 229.5 product is just as good as ours.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 12-13-2008 at 06:01 PM.
12-12-2008, 03:51 PM
#43
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Sorry John - I edited the above & our messages crossed.
Designing a 20,000Km drain HDMO moves the formulation into compromise when it comes to 15,000Km petrol drain.
Many oils will do OK at shorter drain interval & your comments are spot on.
I had no idea you were an Amsoil person. I'm not trying to knock your product. I'm trying to ensure that people look after their MBs & maximise service life. You & I sample our oil regularly and know what's going on. Most don't & should stick to the OEM recs.
That's why I posted my https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ments-usa.html to try & help
Designing a 20,000Km drain HDMO moves the formulation into compromise when it comes to 15,000Km petrol drain.
Many oils will do OK at shorter drain interval & your comments are spot on.
I had no idea you were an Amsoil person. I'm not trying to knock your product. I'm trying to ensure that people look after their MBs & maximise service life. You & I sample our oil regularly and know what's going on. Most don't & should stick to the OEM recs.
That's why I posted my https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ments-usa.html to try & help
What I have found in my experience and testing of various oils, is just because 1 oil works great in one engine, ABSOLUTELY does not mean it will work good in another. Through oil analysis on my various vehicles, I have found several oils that work good and several that don't. I use a combination of AMSOIL, Redline, Mobil 1, and Castrol on my vehicles.
I am a tinkerer by nature, and am always testing and trying new things. So, I may (After my warranty has expired), try the AMSOIL European oil. If I were to try it I would do the following:
1)Change the oil and filter to the new oil. Drive 5K miles, and repeat oil and filter change. Then repeat again.
2)Once I completed at least 2 5K oil changes with the new oil I would do an initial analysis at 5K miles. Then based on that analysis and a virgin analysis of that oil, I would determine the next analysis interval.
3)Once the analysis showed the oil was done, I would change the oil and repeat step 2 again to make sure I could accurately pinpoint a proper change interval.
If you are not comfortable spending the time, money and effort as stated above to properly test a non approved oil, then you should NOT be running any other oil than the MB recommended oil. That is why I agree with Glyn and you should just follow MB recommendations on oil and change intervals.
Last edited by johnand; 12-12-2008 at 03:55 PM.
12-12-2008, 04:07 PM
#44
Super Moderator
Glyn, no worries. I am an AMSOIL dealer, but only to buy oil for myself, friends, and family at wholesale prices. I am not one of those dealers, that give AMSOIL a bad name and insists that AMSOIL is the end all be all of oils. I have learned, that there is no 1 company that makes the best oils, and quite frankly I am not of the opinion that AMSOIL is the best oil by any means. They make some great oils, some not so great oils, and some in between.
What I have found in my experience and testing of various oils, is just because 1 oil works great in one engine, ABSOLUTELY does not mean it will work good in another. Through oil analysis on my various vehicles, I have found several oils that work good and several that don't. I use a combination of AMSOIL, Redline, Mobil 1, and Castrol on my vehicles.
I am a tinkerer by nature, and am always testing and trying new things. So, I may (After my warranty has expired), try the AMSOIL European oil. If I were to try it I would do the following:
1)Change the oil and filter to the new oil. Drive 5K miles, and repeat oil and filter change. Then repeat again.
2)Once I completed at least 2 5K oil changes with the new oil I would do an initial analysis at 5K miles. Then based on that analysis and a virgin analysis of that oil, I would determine the next analysis interval.
3)Once the analysis showed the oil was done, I would change the oil and repeat step 2 again to make sure I could accurately pinpoint a proper change interval.
If you are not comfortable spending the time, money and effort as stated above to properly test a non approved oil, then you should NOT be running any other oil than the MB recommended oil. That is why I agree with Glyn and you should just follow MB recommendations on oil and change intervals.
What I have found in my experience and testing of various oils, is just because 1 oil works great in one engine, ABSOLUTELY does not mean it will work good in another. Through oil analysis on my various vehicles, I have found several oils that work good and several that don't. I use a combination of AMSOIL, Redline, Mobil 1, and Castrol on my vehicles.
I am a tinkerer by nature, and am always testing and trying new things. So, I may (After my warranty has expired), try the AMSOIL European oil. If I were to try it I would do the following:
1)Change the oil and filter to the new oil. Drive 5K miles, and repeat oil and filter change. Then repeat again.
2)Once I completed at least 2 5K oil changes with the new oil I would do an initial analysis at 5K miles. Then based on that analysis and a virgin analysis of that oil, I would determine the next analysis interval.
3)Once the analysis showed the oil was done, I would change the oil and repeat step 2 again to make sure I could accurately pinpoint a proper change interval.
If you are not comfortable spending the time, money and effort as stated above to properly test a non approved oil, then you should NOT be running any other oil than the MB recommended oil. That is why I agree with Glyn and you should just follow MB recommendations on oil and change intervals.
So correct.
And yes I agree all companies have their strengths & weaknesses. I know where the ****** are in our armour. And yes some engines are happier than others with certain formulations. In my 37 year oilco career & literally hundreds of thousands of sample analyses I've commented on, no engine, to me, showed this more clearly than the good old Detroit Diesel "Jimmy" two stroke. That engine liked certain chemistry & you could totally ignore their 1% sulphated ash spec if you used the right chemistry & get superb results.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 12-13-2008 at 06:02 PM.
12-12-2008, 10:06 PM
#45
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2005 E55 ///AMG
Glyn, no worries. I am an AMSOIL dealer, but only to buy oil for myself, friends, and family at wholesale prices. I am not one of those dealers, that give AMSOIL a bad name and insists that AMSOIL is the end all be all of oils. I have learned, that there is no 1 company that makes the best oils, and quite frankly I am not of the opinion that AMSOIL is the best oil by any means. They make some great oils, some not so great oils, and some in between.
What I have found in my experience and testing of various oils, is just because 1 oil works great in one engine, ABSOLUTELY does not mean it will work good in another. Through oil analysis on my various vehicles, I have found several oils that work good and several that don't. I use a combination of AMSOIL, Redline, Mobil 1, and Castrol on my vehicles.
I am a tinkerer by nature, and am always testing and trying new things. So, I may (After my warranty has expired), try the AMSOIL European oil. If I were to try it I would do the following:
1)Change the oil and filter to the new oil. Drive 5K miles, and repeat oil and filter change. Then repeat again.
2)Once I completed at least 2 5K oil changes with the new oil I would do an initial analysis at 5K miles. Then based on that analysis and a virgin analysis of that oil, I would determine the next analysis interval.
3)Once the analysis showed the oil was done, I would change the oil and repeat step 2 again to make sure I could accurately pinpoint a proper change interval.
If you are not comfortable spending the time, money and effort as stated above to properly test a non approved oil, then you should NOT be running any other oil than the MB recommended oil. That is why I agree with Glyn and you should just follow MB recommendations on oil and change intervals.
What I have found in my experience and testing of various oils, is just because 1 oil works great in one engine, ABSOLUTELY does not mean it will work good in another. Through oil analysis on my various vehicles, I have found several oils that work good and several that don't. I use a combination of AMSOIL, Redline, Mobil 1, and Castrol on my vehicles.
I am a tinkerer by nature, and am always testing and trying new things. So, I may (After my warranty has expired), try the AMSOIL European oil. If I were to try it I would do the following:
1)Change the oil and filter to the new oil. Drive 5K miles, and repeat oil and filter change. Then repeat again.
2)Once I completed at least 2 5K oil changes with the new oil I would do an initial analysis at 5K miles. Then based on that analysis and a virgin analysis of that oil, I would determine the next analysis interval.
3)Once the analysis showed the oil was done, I would change the oil and repeat step 2 again to make sure I could accurately pinpoint a proper change interval.
If you are not comfortable spending the time, money and effort as stated above to properly test a non approved oil, then you should NOT be running any other oil than the MB recommended oil. That is why I agree with Glyn and you should just follow MB recommendations on oil and change intervals.
Have seen no problems (crosses fingers) and cannot give any feedback on whether it works better than what was in it previously (I suspect the previous owner used whatever the dealership put in).
I can tell you the car does average 24 MPG on the highway though at 80+ speeds....if that helps any.
Now, that being said, if I wanted to go back to Mobile 1 to stay within the 229.5 guidelines, is it just as easy as another oil change...or is there some guideline I should follow?
12-13-2008, 02:05 AM
#46
Super Moderator
It's as simple as another oil change (with filter) - compatibitity & miscibility are considered when formulating engine oils. By your second change you will have most traces of the Amsoil product out of the system. It's no big deal unless you are sampling where you could see some strange additive spikes on an IR (infrared spectrometer) scan or ICP (Inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometer).
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 12-13-2008 at 06:02 PM.
12-13-2008, 11:49 PM
#47
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2005 C230K Sport Sedan, 6 speed manual
So correct.
And yes I agree all companies have their strengths & weaknesses. I know where the ****** are in our armour. And yes some engines are happier than others with certain formulations. In my 37 year oilco career & literally hundreds of thousands of sample analyses I've commented on, no engine, to me, showed this more clearly than the good old Detroit Diesel "Jimmy" two stroke. That engine liked certain chemistry & you could totally ignore their 1% sulphated ash spec if you used the right chemistry & get superb results.
And yes I agree all companies have their strengths & weaknesses. I know where the ****** are in our armour. And yes some engines are happier than others with certain formulations. In my 37 year oilco career & literally hundreds of thousands of sample analyses I've commented on, no engine, to me, showed this more clearly than the good old Detroit Diesel "Jimmy" two stroke. That engine liked certain chemistry & you could totally ignore their 1% sulphated ash spec if you used the right chemistry & get superb results.
Also, now that the Detroit Diesel two cycle engines (53, 71, and 92 series) are virtually obsolete (at least in the US), what engines are the labs using for oil testing?
12-14-2008, 07:32 AM
#48
Super Moderator
John Anderson is absolutely correct in his statement that different engines like different chemistry & viscometrics.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 12-14-2008 at 08:26 AM.
12-14-2008, 08:23 AM
#49
Super Moderator
Sorry, I did not fully answer your question. "What engines are the labs using for testing" - The answer is too complex to give here but suffice to say life has become more complicated.
CAT, Cummins, Mack, Volvo, Benz, MAN, Iveco, DAF, MTU as examples, a variety of Japanese diesel engines - the Japanese philosophy is quite different to ROW as they believe in medium dispercency HDMOs & not high dispercency oils.
CAT, Cummins, Mack, Volvo, Benz, MAN, Iveco, DAF, MTU as examples, a variety of Japanese diesel engines - the Japanese philosophy is quite different to ROW as they believe in medium dispercency HDMOs & not high dispercency oils.
12-14-2008, 08:29 AM
#50
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2005 E55 ///AMG
It's as simple as another oil change (with filter) - compatibitity & miscibility are considered when formulating engine oils. By your second change you will have most traces of the Amsoil product out of the system. It's no big deal unless you are sampling where you could see some strange additive spikes on an IR (infrared spectrometer) scan or ICP (Inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometer).
