ASP Pulley installed.
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Atlanta, GA
C230 coupe 6sp
Originally posted by nov0798
well obviouslt the key is designed in this vehicle to transmit the torque as shown in the pulley that failed. The bolt was still tight yet the pulley wasnt turning, go figure. once again the key is there to transmit torque and protect the crank. yes i must over simplify everything as this is all people understand. tomorrow we will do colors! as for the key in the post you refer to , it sounds like this key was broken at production time and possibly the pulley was slammed on there and broke the key, who knows but eventually it to would have failed due to its lost structural integrity.
well obviouslt the key is designed in this vehicle to transmit the torque as shown in the pulley that failed. The bolt was still tight yet the pulley wasnt turning, go figure. once again the key is there to transmit torque and protect the crank. yes i must over simplify everything as this is all people understand. tomorrow we will do colors! as for the key in the post you refer to , it sounds like this key was broken at production time and possibly the pulley was slammed on there and broke the key, who knows but eventually it to would have failed due to its lost structural integrity.
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 207
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From: MI
2003 C230K, 6 spd, Brilliant Silver, C-5, C-7, CD changer
Originally posted by nov0798
Here you want a **** simple test. go out to your lawn mower remove the blade and the remove the key that is between the hub and the shaft. start it up and go mow your lawn. I bet you will not get even 2-3 minutes into your lawn b4 the blade stops turning and the crank welds itself to the hub due to friction, well actually at this point it will turn because it is welded. But i guess the key has nothing to do with this because all the force if the blade is held in place by the bolt, right! We can keep this up as I will continue to provide example after example, yet no one can prove otherwise, hmmmm.
Here you want a **** simple test. go out to your lawn mower remove the blade and the remove the key that is between the hub and the shaft. start it up and go mow your lawn. I bet you will not get even 2-3 minutes into your lawn b4 the blade stops turning and the crank welds itself to the hub due to friction, well actually at this point it will turn because it is welded. But i guess the key has nothing to do with this because all the force if the blade is held in place by the bolt, right! We can keep this up as I will continue to provide example after example, yet no one can prove otherwise, hmmmm.
and I've cut my lawn for 12 years just fine thank you!I guess the key really has nothing to do with it.
rotflmao
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Originally posted by dswildfire
since when? last i checked, the rule was that if it had seeds, it's a fruit. just like cucumbers.
since when? last i checked, the rule was that if it had seeds, it's a fruit. just like cucumbers.
Bananas do not have seeds. The black specks in the banana are the immature, unfertile beginnings of seeds.
Last edited by Lynn; Jan 24, 2003 at 10:03 AM.
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From: Ohio
2010 C300 4matic
Originally posted by nov0798
yea well still waiting for the EXPERTS to dispute the documents i supplied, i guess that will never happen because it is hard to dispute fact.
yea well still waiting for the EXPERTS to dispute the documents i supplied, i guess that will never happen because it is hard to dispute fact.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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From: York, PA
2003 C230K Sport Coupe, 1986 190E 2.3
Ok how about in this application both the key and the bolt torqued properly are needed. When you torgue the bolt to the right amount it will press itself onto the shaft and against the key. When the bolt is not torqued properly then the pulley must not be pressed over the key enough to keep the pulley spinning with the crank shaft. Allowing some slippage if you will. No that should not really happen but it is entirely posibble considering the amount of force present on the crank shaft. Now this being two disimiliar metals of course makes it far worse. The steel pulley matted to a steel shaft will expand and contract at the same rates therefore not leaving any room around the key to shear it like happened. Now with aluminum we have to diferent rates of expansion and contraction between the metals. Allowing the aluminum to expand more rapidly and create a gap between the key and the pulley and then of course the key will shear because the is no longer a tight fit between the key, the crank, and the pulley.
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 988
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From: Encino
2002 C230K
Wow, peas, green beans, bell peppers, lettuce, okra and most other "vegetables" are really fruits, and seedless grapes are vegetables
all the more to mess with minds of children......and my own of course.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 875
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From: Los Angeles
2002 c230k
Originally posted by nov0798
so back to the original statement, the key is needed to transmit torque from the crank to the pulley.
so back to the original statement, the key is needed to transmit torque from the crank to the pulley.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 461
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From: Atlanta, GA
C230 coupe 6sp
Actually, the case I referred to was a stock factory pulley. So it was steel/steel. Aluminum is a worse case for a lot of reason including the softer material, expansion rate, etc.
"some will believe and some won't"
amen to that...
I still think nov0798 needs to go out and loosen the pulley on his car to 20-30 ft-lbs, and then let us know how things are after a few thousand miles
Of course he won't do that because he knows what will happen and all the pdf files from various universities won't change the outcome.
"some will believe and some won't"
amen to that...
I still think nov0798 needs to go out and loosen the pulley on his car to 20-30 ft-lbs, and then let us know how things are after a few thousand miles
Of course he won't do that because he knows what will happen and all the pdf files from various universities won't change the outcome.
Super Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 844
Likes: 1
From: SF South Bay
2002 C230 Coupe
Originally posted by nov0798
so back to the original statement, the key is needed to transmit torque from the crank to the pulley.
so back to the original statement, the key is needed to transmit torque from the crank to the pulley.
Didn't tedypedy's post already show a working engine with a broken key?? If you're talking about endurance limit, all engines will fail eventually.
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hmm , they are worried about the extra load placed on the keyway due to increased pulley size. if the bolt does the transfer of torque then why would they be worried about keyway stress?
http://www.nevo.biz/tech.html
http://www.nevo.biz/tech.html
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 875
Likes: 1
From: Los Angeles
2002 c230k
Originally posted by nov0798
hmm , they are worried about the extra load placed on the keyway due to increased pulley size. if the bolt does the transfer of torque then why would they be worried about keyway stress?
http://www.nevo.biz/tech.html
hmm , they are worried about the extra load placed on the keyway due to increased pulley size. if the bolt does the transfer of torque then why would they be worried about keyway stress?
http://www.nevo.biz/tech.html
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 960
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Ok after reading this huge thread I have to comment on the lawnmower part.
The reason tehre is a key is beacause say u hit a tree stump or something that jams the blade. The key is designed to shear so the engine crank doesnt simply stop. If it did u would have a destroyed lawn mower. It would bend the crank from the sudden stop.
Same principle for our cars. If somethings stops the pulley from moving, it wont lock the crank, if it did u would bend it.
Keys are just like insurance in case something happens. Its designed to shear before engine damage occurs.
The reason tehre is a key is beacause say u hit a tree stump or something that jams the blade. The key is designed to shear so the engine crank doesnt simply stop. If it did u would have a destroyed lawn mower. It would bend the crank from the sudden stop.
Same principle for our cars. If somethings stops the pulley from moving, it wont lock the crank, if it did u would bend it.
Keys are just like insurance in case something happens. Its designed to shear before engine damage occurs.
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 207
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From: MI
2003 C230K, 6 spd, Brilliant Silver, C-5, C-7, CD changer
Originally posted by Lynn
I'm a Benz owner, by God. I don't own a lawn mower, I employ someone who does.
I'm a Benz owner, by God. I don't own a lawn mower, I employ someone who does.
Even if isn't a *real* one
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 207
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From: MI
2003 C230K, 6 spd, Brilliant Silver, C-5, C-7, CD changer
Originally posted by mctwin2kman
Ok how about in this application both the key and the bolt torqued properly are needed. When you torgue the bolt to the right amount it will press itself onto the shaft and against the key. When the bolt is not torqued properly then the pulley must not be pressed over the key enough to keep the pulley spinning with the crank shaft. Allowing some slippage if you will. No that should not really happen but it is entirely posibble considering the amount of force present on the crank shaft. Now this being two disimiliar metals of course makes it far worse. The steel pulley matted to a steel shaft will expand and contract at the same rates therefore not leaving any room around the key to shear it like happened. Now with aluminum we have to diferent rates of expansion and contraction between the metals. Allowing the aluminum to expand more rapidly and create a gap between the key and the pulley and then of course the key will shear because the is no longer a tight fit between the key, the crank, and the pulley.
Ok how about in this application both the key and the bolt torqued properly are needed. When you torgue the bolt to the right amount it will press itself onto the shaft and against the key. When the bolt is not torqued properly then the pulley must not be pressed over the key enough to keep the pulley spinning with the crank shaft. Allowing some slippage if you will. No that should not really happen but it is entirely posibble considering the amount of force present on the crank shaft. Now this being two disimiliar metals of course makes it far worse. The steel pulley matted to a steel shaft will expand and contract at the same rates therefore not leaving any room around the key to shear it like happened. Now with aluminum we have to diferent rates of expansion and contraction between the metals. Allowing the aluminum to expand more rapidly and create a gap between the key and the pulley and then of course the key will shear because the is no longer a tight fit between the key, the crank, and the pulley.
Aluminum may not be the best choice but a proper design does work- some racing engines use aluminum dampers (note it is still a damper and not just a hub ).
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Laguna Niguel, CA
Originally posted by felix k
ASP, Kleeman, Evosport pulleys; intercooler.........
what's the best and/or cheapest combination for getting more hp on a 2001 c240???
ASP, Kleeman, Evosport pulleys; intercooler.........
what's the best and/or cheapest combination for getting more hp on a 2001 c240???
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 153
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Cars
I still have that little peice of the key that sheared off in my room. Here's my question. since the car runs fine, I don't see any abnormalities can I just put the ASP pulley on without worrying or is it gunna cause sum problems? However, its not just the key that was demolished. A chunk of the crank came off, and there's a little groove on the stock pulley from this explosion of bs that's going on in there. How do i get the dealer to look in there and replace everything? Hard to assess the situation but I don't know why they'd put the key in there if it didnt serve a function. I have no idea how long i've been driving with no key and all of that but I've never encounterd an engine faiure or malfunction yet. I haven't driven my car for about a week, not since i found out about the key but on the way home if anything the car felt more responsive. (still have my E as a back up car) Anyways what do you guys think i should do?
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Laguna Niguel, CA
Tedypedy, you are in a tough spot. The key is fairly long, over 2" and the part that can be seen externally is fairly small. If for some reason the rest of they works it's way out you will be in big trouble. The key is also what aligned the timing sprocket. I'll PM you with some advice I can't share on the forum.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 571
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just take it to mb and tell them that you heard a loud pop or something, ask them to check it out. or tell them the car was making a noise and when you opened the hood, you saw the pulley wobbling and so you tightened it up, but you want it towed because you are afraid to drive it. or somehting. you could always try the truth, it sometimes works and you dont have to worry about getting your stories messed up.
