AMS Crank pulley - M112 - Discussion
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From: MD
2007 C230 and 1985 Monte SS
I see. Their site seems a little misleading:
http://fluidampr.com/ASKTECH/7.html
As such, I dont see them selling "replacement silicone" for any refreshes.
http://fluidampr.com/ASKTECH/7.html
As such, I dont see them selling "replacement silicone" for any refreshes.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
SSM - I have no direct experience with the Fluidampr - rather with similar products used in Industrial applications & others of similar concept but proprietary.
A fair question becomes - what do they mean by "lasts forever" Ask them for sealed damper life in under hood conditions in miles.
Regarding your consumption question - see my post to Tru's thread.
A fair question becomes - what do they mean by "lasts forever" Ask them for sealed damper life in under hood conditions in miles.
Regarding your consumption question - see my post to Tru's thread.
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AMG
Now correct me if I'm wrong here (I'm not trying to attack your claims, I just dont understand how this is possible) but if the RPM of the engine (and therefore the pulley) is not changing, then how can the pulley be affecting the engine's efficiency. The change in mass of the pulley changes the MMOI, which in turn makes the pulley easier or harder to accelerate radially. But, if the motor is spinning at a constant speed, the only energy required to keep the pulley spinning is due to friction.
I just dont see how a change in mass of the pulley will affect the power required to keep it spinning at a constant speed, and therefore the power saved by the motor which can be converted to fuel savings.
Thanks for any input.
What a lot of people do not factor into the equation is engine load at any given rpm, rpm alone is not everything. With the crank pulley the load is less at any given rpm hence less fuel input so there are consumption savings. Sometime the load is significantly less so you actually run at a slightly lower rpm given same speed (on autos at least due to torque converter, on manuals its pretty set in stone, given rpm = given speed). On the V8s its about 2mpg from what our customers have reported to us as well as our own testing. V6s may be +/- depending on certain factors. Our M104 & 55K make a little bit more closer to 3mpg simply b/c the weight reduction on those pulleys is far more drastic (especially on the M104s). But for the NA M112/M113, the high 1s to 2mpg are typical results.
Glad to be of help
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GMC - Miata - Trek - P-Car
Virtually all modern automatic transmissions – including MB’s - have lock-up torque converters which essentially eliminate slippage while underway at highway speeds.
Last edited by splinter; Jan 28, 2009 at 02:37 PM. Reason: repair pic
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Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
This is not so on a Benz. It has a lock up converter & the converter is locked solid 99.9% of the time & certainly when cruising. A Benz converter stays locked from just after pull away - even on trailing throttle - there is no free wheeling possible in Drive. So torque converter slip does not come into this equation
Thread Starter
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
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From: London, GB
RHD C200 Sport Coupe, RHD SLK-55, LHD SLK-350
Sure,
What a lot of people do not factor into the equation is engine load at any given rpm, rpm alone is not everything. With the crank pulley the load is less at any given rpm hence less fuel input so there are consumption savings. Sometime the load is significantly less so you actually run at a slightly lower rpm given same speed (on autos at least due to torque converter, on manuals its pretty set in stone, given rpm = given speed). On the V8s its about 2mpg from what our customers have reported to us as well as our own testing. V6s may be +/- depending on certain factors. Our M104 & 55K make a little bit more closer to 3mpg simply b/c the weight reduction on those pulleys is far more drastic (especially on the M104s). But for the NA M112/M113, the high 1s to 2mpg are typical results.
Glad to be of help
What a lot of people do not factor into the equation is engine load at any given rpm, rpm alone is not everything. With the crank pulley the load is less at any given rpm hence less fuel input so there are consumption savings. Sometime the load is significantly less so you actually run at a slightly lower rpm given same speed (on autos at least due to torque converter, on manuals its pretty set in stone, given rpm = given speed). On the V8s its about 2mpg from what our customers have reported to us as well as our own testing. V6s may be +/- depending on certain factors. Our M104 & 55K make a little bit more closer to 3mpg simply b/c the weight reduction on those pulleys is far more drastic (especially on the M104s). But for the NA M112/M113, the high 1s to 2mpg are typical results.
Glad to be of help
Last edited by UK-C200; Jan 28, 2009 at 07:00 AM.
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2008
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From: MD
2007 C230 and 1985 Monte SS
Once the pulley is spinning, it doesnt take any power/energy/force (just depending on what dimensions you want to consider) to keep it spinning. (OK, there is some air resistance, but the mass change doesnt affect that aspect) I agree that it will make it somewhat easier for the engine to increase RPM and accelerate though.
Much appreciated.
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2004 C230K SS
Once the pulley is spinning, it doesnt take any power/energy/force (just depending on what dimensions you want to consider) to keep it spinning. (OK, there is some air resistance, but the mass change doesnt affect that aspect) I agree that it will make it somewhat easier for the engine to increase RPM and accelerate though.
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AMG
In high HP applications with non-harmonic dampened pulleys combined with lightweight flywheels, yes you can break crankshafts, its a lot harder than most people realize but yes its possible. Forged crankshafts are obviously stronger and able to handle more stress.
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AMG
correct, If it required ZERO energy like everyone says that would imply perpetual motion and zero friction is involved (road, wind, drivetrain, etc). In the real world that is obviously not possible so some energy is required to keep a car in motion, its not a lot but there is some energy required, with the pulley the energy is less hence improved efficiency (just as Tru is reporting in real world results).
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Don't overblow things. I'm sure your pulley has some advantages. Fuel consumption at constant speed won't be one of them. The energy required to keep your pulley at constant speed will be miniscule & quite insignificant compared with keeping the car at constant speed or the flywheel or torque converter at constant speed. Continuously varying engine speed is where you will see differences if they are worthwhile. See my posting on fuel consumption testing on Tru's thread. You shoot yourself in the foot by making dumb claims. I'm sure the pulley has advantages such as it's lighter than stock so it's easier to overcome the pulley inertia when accelerating the engine & that this will result in possible fuel savings & better responsiveness - so claim that. Then people will believe you. You simply can't have it everywhere. Basic science is against you.
Make sensible claims and you will be supported. You talk youself into trouble. I've been enormously patient and fair with you & your product on this thread. Any damage you might have done yourself or your product has been entirely your own doing. I'm telling you that at constant RPM that your pulley might improve consumption by 0.001%
Make sensible claims and you will be supported. You talk youself into trouble. I've been enormously patient and fair with you & your product on this thread. Any damage you might have done yourself or your product has been entirely your own doing. I'm telling you that at constant RPM that your pulley might improve consumption by 0.001%
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AMG
We operate on real world results and real world dynos, always have always will. Many of our customers have reported back much higher mpg numbers post pulley install as well as dyno results. We just go by the evidence & proof they provide, nothing more.
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RHD C200 Sport Coupe, RHD SLK-55, LHD SLK-350
Thanks
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
It is more than possible that your pulley provides some fuel saving in variable engine speed conditions such as town driving or conditions of frequent acceleration. There is no chance of any meaningful saving at constant RPM or lower engine speeds or any such thing.
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From: Seattle
w203 m112
Just to clarify from my thread. I haven't found an improvement on the highway. I have only found an improvement during mixed or mostly city driving. I THOUGHT I would have seen an improvement on the highway, but I haven't seen anything out of my ordinary 25-28mpg...
I think the real world results (in my case), have shown what Glyn has stated.
Thanks again for all of the insightful contributions to this thread and keeping it PG-13.
I think the real world results (in my case), have shown what Glyn has stated.
Thanks again for all of the insightful contributions to this thread and keeping it PG-13.
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From: London, GB
RHD C200 Sport Coupe, RHD SLK-55, LHD SLK-350
Just to clarify from my thread. I haven't found an improvement on the highway. I have only found an improvement during mixed or mostly city driving. I THOUGHT I would have seen an improvement on the highway, but I haven't seen anything out of my ordinary 25-28mpg...
I think the real world results (in my case), have shown what Glyn has stated.
Thanks again for all of the insightful contributions to this thread and keeping it PG-13.
I think the real world results (in my case), have shown what Glyn has stated.
Thanks again for all of the insightful contributions to this thread and keeping it PG-13.
TruTaing - what improvement have you see, and over what total consumption figure?
EDITED : Never mind, found the figures in the other thread.
Last edited by UK-C200; Jan 28, 2009 at 09:56 PM.
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2004 C230K SS
In high HP applications with non-harmonic dampened pulleys combined with lightweight flywheels, yes you can break crankshafts, its a lot harder than most people realize but yes its possible. Forged crankshafts are obviously stronger and able to handle more stress.
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From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
Just to clarify from my thread. I haven't found an improvement on the highway. I have only found an improvement during mixed or mostly city driving. I THOUGHT I would have seen an improvement on the highway, but I haven't seen anything out of my ordinary 25-28mpg...
I think the real world results (in my case), have shown what Glyn has stated.
Thanks again for all of the insightful contributions to this thread and keeping it PG-13.
I think the real world results (in my case), have shown what Glyn has stated.
Thanks again for all of the insightful contributions to this thread and keeping it PG-13.
as glym said and i suspected. it gives somewhat better mpg local because the initial energy required to spin the lighter weight crank pulley is less, but at constant speed there's no advantage.
