valexv

i do sites too, any type of multimedia work needed pm

FrankW

dyno sheet?

i somehow doubt Wavey's car ONLY made 165hp at the wheel pre-TVT mods. stock C320 already pumps out 215hp at crank. It doesn't have anymore drive train loss than the C32 which is around 20% and that puts the stock C320 dyno around 172hp (give or take) without any mods. 165rwhp is no way correct after the SI tune and his UD pulley. Those mods should've put Wavey around 180-185rwhp to begin with. I'm sorry, but I have to raise the BS flag on that one.

I'm not questioning the end result with all the mods tho. larger injector does the trick. 200rwhp is feasible ONTOP of what wavey already has, the UD pulley, the tune and the headers. without those, no way the injector and a different tune will give you 40rwhp over a STOCK C320.

one more thing, given how restricted the M112 airbox is the front running tube doesn't make any difference on how it let the air into the airbox before the filter.

TruTaing

Frank, Ive discussed this a bit w/ Anthony (TVT) via pm some.. I too was under the impression that the w203 had about 20% DT loss. I'm curious to see how others chime in on the subject of drive train loss and our touch shift transmission... Maybe Jerry (or the guys at LET) or Vadim can chime in too

TVT_DESIGN

You're gonna raise a BS fkag on what the dyno said? Um ok, I hope your arms doesn't get tired.

I'll post the sheets and give you the shops phone number to verify.

I've run a car on to seperate dynos. The first dyno netted us 178 RWHP the second dyno 197 RWHP. No mods were done to the car and the shops were about an hour away from eachother. Did my engine magically make power? No, it did not.

We had an SRT6 (same as the C32) on the dyno with LET V2 tune, Code3 crank pulley, and SL55 intake and it put down 298 RWHP same day, same dyno. Many SRT6 have dynoes 270-280 RWHP stock on different dynos.

phate

Dyno's are great for comparative testing if you are using the SAME DYNO. No two dyno's will read the same. I hate people bragging about hp numbers from a dyno because they mean nothing. The only numbers that matter are the ones on the track...

GermanCarShow

Frank,

Pardon my ignorance, but I'm a newbie when it comes to tuning. Why would a C320 have any pullies? I thought those were for driving kompressors and turbos. The C320 is neither of those (C32 is, of course!). What am I missing?

WaveyKat

hmmm...

CLK FAN

GermanCarShow,

When you have a naturally aspirated engine you still have pulleys that your belt drives on. The pulleys that these guys are talking about that will help a non-kopressor engine are just lighter in weight and spin easier therefore allowing your engine to make easier power with less drag on the internals and throttle response. There are also some pulleys on the market that will be different in diameter sizes for naturally aspirated engines...but these mainly apply to Kopressor ( supercharged ) engines.

FrankW

you sure are quite defensive about the comment I made. it's simple, do your own math.

please listen to yourself bro. you are claiming Mike's car made only 165rwhp with the SI tune, UD pulley, and the AMG exhaust. What is the drive train loss on the dyno your shop used? The SI tune and the UD pulley have been proven to have performance gains (15rwhp (18hp at crank) at least combined on the C320). The simple math put the crank HP roughly around 230-232HP. If your dyno only showed 165rwhp that's a whopping 29% loss from crank with Mike's setup. With your 200rwhp claim on the SAME dyno with 29% loss that puts him at 280+ HP at crank, so you are in essence saying the Injector and a semi-revised tune gave him an extra 40HP at the crank??? (since you said the headers gave him about 8rwhp about 10hp at crank). I would expect the injectors gave him about 20hp max with tune.

If the dyno you used has the same typical drive train loss which is around 18-20% that puts Mike's car at only 206HP at crank with his SI tune and UD pulley kit. That's less than a stock C320's HP rating.

yes, some dynos will show less HP number, but the shop will also tell you how much drive train loss there is based on their dyno. So far, I've never seen or heard any reputable dyno shops that are proud of their 29% drive train loss dyno machine. so I don't think I would want to bother visiting that shop even if it's near me.

btw, SRT6 is R170 SLK32 which has LESS drive train loss than the W203 C32.

FrankW

correct. the UD (under driver) pulley puts less work load on the crank in driving the accessories. 5-10hp is proven with them and a lot of guys on the board runs them.

TVT_DESIGN

We also tested a bone stock C240 same dyno, same day and got 136 RWHP. Obviously the dyno is stingy, but it's the same dyno throughout so not much you can do about that.

FrankW

uh...a stock C240 was only rated at 170hp crank. 136rwhp is exactly 20% drive train loss. stingy?

this makes your previous claim even more unbelievable. something's wrong with the dyno or the guy that's doing the dyno.

TruTaing

TVT_DESIGN

I'm just gonna agree with you and say the numbers don't look right, which they don't and we posted on that when we first put them up. But I can't change what the dyno said, only report it.

Ok so given the end RWHP of 207 and the DT loss of 20%, this puts the car at the 260 Crank Mark. Best thing I can think of is that the SI tune wasn't up to par. I've spoken to Jerry at LET and that's what he came up with as well.

C230 Sport Coup

Well, one thing I've learned 'round these parts, is that mods doesn't necessarily equal power.
Buell proved that extensively with trying different filters, and intercoolers on the M111 and the ASP pulley, and he ended up losing power. The only for sure thing is that yes, the ASP pulley works.

So, to be fair, one might consider that while UD pullies, chip and an exhaust SHOULD increase power, in all fairness, that might not be true.

It all depends on the Siemens computer and how it interprets things.

I will say, that hey this is a tough crowd. So anyone wanting to sell something around here, better have a thick skin if they're making claims as to performance etc. without actually posting the dyno's.

So many tuners have claimed power increases for just 'chipping' which in some cases isn't really chipping, it's like modifying the adaptation data.
None of those folks would post a dyno.

But if as you say the SI tune wasn't up to par, your tuning may have corrected some past mistakes getting the power to the ground and utilizing the UD pullies. So the next person may not see quite such an increase. (someone asked about UD pullies, they splin everything slower, so as to reduce drivetrain loss, putting more power to the ground. Oldest trick in the book.)

So if you want cred, you gotta put up the dyno's.
AND I'd like to say, don't let the peanut gallary put off anyone who wants to try.
We need affordable performance solutions around here, so keep it up!!!

Once you get all the kinks worked out, find someone who can do the work on the left coast to
increase your exposure.

valexv

and thing go back to the m111 for some packages there, can't wait

TVT_DESIGN

Here is a link to the dynos we did that day and an explanation of what each one was.

I was wrong on the SLK230 numbers, we had 157 RWHP.

http://www.tvtdes********/dynos

I have to get the new sheets from the dyno for the result runs in DJ format.

FrankW

do you have the fuel map? that would probably tell the whole story.

260hp at crank is exactly what I am expecting with all those mods on wavey's car.

FrankW

well, I've drove the C240 and C320 with the same mods. They've all gained power. kcheng has the exact setup SI tune and UD pulley (evosport) and gained power. That's why I wasn't doubting the mods. The m111k was a particular case where you couldn't do much to the fuel map after the OD pulley.

TVT_DESIGN

When we pulled up the map af Wavey's car the fuel map was stock and the ignition advanced 2 degrees. That was the only difference from the stock map. So we erased that and had to start from a stock map.

We've flashed enough cars to know that tunes don't take everytime and every car is different. It's almost impossible to get a tune correct with out some data logging. I would imagine that a lot of tuners are very safe if they don't have data on the car in particular, I know we are.

When we tuned the map on the dyno we added a bunch of fuel throughout the band and loaded up even more from 3400-5200. We also advanced the timing about 10 degrees and fixed a few flat spots. And there was probably more left in there if we had the car adapt further, but time is money and every hour that passed was $100.00.

We've had crossfires dyno about 174-177 RWHP stock and after our kit, UD pulleys, and cat back exhaust dyno 207-217 RWHP. These numbers all come from Mustang Dynos which are know as the "heart breakers."

We've consistently gotten 30-40 RWHP with our kits, this car is no exception.

FrankW

that's 30-40rwhp WITH UD pulleys and exhaust. how about a stock vs with just the tvt kit (injector and tune) what will those yield? I think this is the more important question because that's what the tvt kit is (tuning and bigger injector). tuning and UD pulley alone have a 15rwhp gain range already.

TVT_DESIGN

We've seen 30-35 RWHP consistent with just tune, injectors, and intake. UD pulleys account for 3-5 RWHP and the cat back is 3 RWHP on a good day.

dblock2151

Sorry to go offtopic, but would those intake tubes work on the 2.5 V6 C230's?

TVT_DESIGN

Just a bump...

As for the intake tubes, they may fit, but you wouldn't notice as large of an improvement as with replacing teh M112 tubes.

C230 Sport Coup

C'mon you cheap basterds...somebody pony up!
If I ever get a 3.2 based MB this will be the 1st thing I'll buy!
(Like say, perhaps a C320 Coupe with 6 speed and 260 Hp? Delish....)