Glyn M Ruck

There are two threads running on the 204 forum on keeping black cars swirl free. For interesting reading on polishes - long life sealants & many differing views - go there.

A lot of you have newer cars with the new paint. I post this for you.

Microfiber towels are made from Polyester & Polyamide fibers. Both of which can scratch modern paint finishes & remove sealants & waxes. I'm posting here a comment from one of the detail product manufacturers - I won't disclose which one because aside from polymer sealants & polishes. They ALSO sell Microfiber towels So if you want the truth speak to the paint manufacturers.

Quote

"Using Microfiber to clean your car:
Those answers mean I step on a few toes, even my own, when it comes to
products. Many of the products that were safe to use on a vehicle 3 years ago are not safe on newer cars due to a change in paint. Many of the products being sold to clean a vehicle will damage the sealant on your vehicle over time.
Unfortunately by the time it's noticeable the damage has already happened and there is no undo key built into a vehicle.

Caution about cleaning with microfiber:
Industrial paint and sealant manufacturers warn against washing your vehicle with the popular microfiber products. They are made from 80 to 85% polyester & polyamide, which is plastic. Plastic scratches and over time and repeated use they will scratch the sealant off your car and then start on the paint. Your car' paint will begin oxidizing even though you have taken excellent care of your vehicle.
Due to VOC regulations, paint is now being changed from lead based to water based. The paint is not as hard as it has been in the past. Even though sealants are applied over the paint to protect it, if the sealant is scratched
off due to microfiber or the wrong kind of petroleum distillate being used in a wax, the paint is then left vulnerable to rapid oxidation, rust and deterioration. I sell microfiber cloths and do not want you using something
that I know will damage your sealant over time. At a large industrial trade show I had microfiber manufacturing companies verify this information.
If your vehicle is a 2002 or prior to 2002 using 100% cotton is safe and does a great job cleaning safely without scratching. If your vehicle is newer than 2002 then 100% Lambswool is recommended. It is even softer and gentler than cotton." Unquote

Nice Huh! - from someone in the detailing product supply business! You have been warned.

paypaboi

it makes sense....I have been using microfibers...even after my detail when virtually all the swirls gone they all came back and i have only been using microfibers...i cldnt understand why my ish kept gettn swirls so i started buying new towels after every wash same ish...i guess i need 2 get another detail and try lambswool

SickSpeedMonte

Damnit!

I just had the SS repainted (with waterbased paint) and gave it 1 wash, using microfiber. I have also been removing bird crap with microfiber and quick detailer...

GRRR... now I need to go buy lambswool...

Good news is that there is a ton of clear on the car and I should be able to buff it out.

Nokiemon

I have heard this as well from industry vendors at the SEMA show. I have been limiting my use of microfiber on the exterior for fear of this.

My question is where to find good lambswool towels?

I searched the term and numerous auto detailing sites and found lambswool wash mitts, and buffing pads, but not towels.

Most of the auto supply stores and detail places go crazy over microfiber, but not many seen to offer any alternatives.

Any suggestions from forum members about where to find this product would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Glyn M Ruck

I've made myself less than popular on the 204 forum by suggesting that long life polymer sealants like Auto Armor that is sold in SA & was exhaustively tested by Benz are the answer. For $75 you coat your car when new & then once every 4 to 5 years. The more you dry rub modern paints with anything - the more you damage them. A good long life polymer sealant & washing with lot's of water & a compatible car washing liquid & using a chamois to dry is all you do. My car was done 5 years ago. Has never ever been polished & the paint is perfect & swirl free - smooth as a baby's bum & water still pebbles on it. The modern clear coats need to maintain their from the gun skin to really look good.

paypaboi

+1 I was thinking the same thing man because I did the same searching myself and got the same results.

moonrkr23

true all true i use a mitt and to dry i use a synthetic shammy as i mist on wax as u dry by eagle 1

holycaoAMG

I obviously have an 01, so does that mean im off the hook?

I've been using microfibers 100% of the time when cleaning my car.
I do the usual wash, clay, and wax about every month and use quick detailer twice a week in between. It simply still looks great and i still get that deep black, smooth, blemish free finish.

Glyn M Ruck

Not off the hook but paint will damage more slowly.

W203E35

WOW, I use Microfiber but my color is White so I really dont have to worry do I? Speaking of bird crap my mom has a burgundy color car, there was bird crap on the roof and I washed her car recently and now where the bird crap was it seems like a rock fell and made marks around it. It kind of looks like when a wind shield cracks a little. Did the bird crap eat up the paint?

W203E35

Here are great solutions if you run out of car products.

http://frugalliving.about.com/od/aff...er_Recipes.htm

ChrisBrown

So my question is: the dealers around here say that the Meguires (did I spell that right?) are the preferred products. Is their wax safe?

Glyn M Ruck

I've had nothing but praise for Meguiar's products. I use Mequiar's on my Jag & I use their leather cleaner conditioner on the Merc & the Jag. The Merc has only been done with Auto Armor. The Jag has Spies Hecker paint on it. Glasurit Porsche self healing primer, then a coat of Black Spies Hecker - then 21 coats of BRG Spies Hecker. Lifetime paint warranty.

I can't answer your question definitively. You would have to ask Meguiar's

ChrisBrown

I might have to. I've used their wax products exclusively for the past 10 years on my cars, and I've already waxed the Mercedes 3 times with it since I bought it. I don't know how the previous owner treated the paint.

dirtdiggler

Hey all. here is a link to my 07C230 ss that I maintain religiously. You can also check out autopia.org for extensive paint care questions.
thanks

http://midwestelite.org/forum/showthread.php?t=490

dirt diggler

mleskovar

Microfiber is a process, not a type of material. http://www.dftowel.com/ordertowels.html Not lambswool, but natural microfiber and the new standard for detailing. The scratching microfiber towel debate has been going on since it was introduced. The 'cd scatch test' will fail with any of the plastic based microfiber materials if you press hard enough. That being said, I believe if you properly prepare your finish and lubricate properly when cleaning you should not even be touching the paint. That's what sealants are for, protecting the finish, and lubricants protect the sealant. There are good synthetic fiber microfiber towels but none are as good as natural fiber.

amanonfire

The best way to reduce swirls is to buy a foam gun and use a grout sponge. Let the foam sit on the car for awhile to loosen all the dirt, and the grout sponge pulls the dirt inside the sponge so it won't scratch the paint.

I've read the microfiber towel debate, and will say that most swirls aren't caused by the towels during drying, its by the wash mitt and dirt during washing.

C230 Sport Coup

Gee, I almost skipped this thread till I saw (Mr. Smarty Pants ) Glyn was the author, and most definitely he wouldn't just be writing to say, wow, Microfiber is cool...
So, I'm currently using a microfiber mitt, and towel.

I wash both each time after I wash so I'm starting with it clean.
I have found it seems to scratch less than a regular towel, using the soft side for the paint. But yeh, I have tons of swirls, not sure what to do about it.

I used to use a lambs wool mitt, but more recently I got this microfiber.
My paint tends to get a film of pollen mostly, and I just use water, no soap most of the time, keeping the water pouring over the area I'm wiping as I go to allow for sufficient lubing of the mitt. My dad taught me this way, and I find the paint stay looking good much longer. The soaps most car washes use are too strong and remove the wax. I use soap occasionally if the car has a lot of dirt on it.

So, what is the recommended method of drying?
BTW my dad always used a natural Chamois but I always found them to be a bit of a pain, but is that what we should be using?

MW_ATL

Good timing, as I was planning on picking up cloths today and cleaning/polishing this afternoon or tomorrow.

My wife hates micro-fiber because of the way they feel. She has always said she liked the cotton better. I just told her that she was right - yet again.

aznmode

I normally get my car washed at a touchless car wash. I assume they use microfiber? I do notice swirl marks now which I never have before. I guess I'll be cleaning my car from now on.

aznmode

I wondered the same about my car and the previous owner. It was immaculate condition. No swirl marks and it was very shiny. Not even the radio had swirl marks or scratches. Now I noticed the paint is dull. Maybe I need to get it rebuffed?

shivi1345

sh*t I did't know this.....I've been using microfibers since day 1 lol

So what should we use as a cloth then?....cuz cotton is sh*tty too. I've never had a problem with swirl marks though. (cuz I have a white car?)


....and +1 lol

Glyn M Ruck

[QUOTE=mleskovar;3581249]Microfiber is a process, not a type of material.QUOTE]

Not in the general use of the term. I will agree that all microfiber towels are not equal but 99.99% of towels sold as microfibre/microfiber are a mix of polyester & polyamide.

Talk to Glasurit & ask them what they suggest for their paint. - Natural lambswool.

Glyn M Ruck

Natural lambswool & Natural or good synthetic chamois. Your ancient lawnmower has old tech paint

I wash my car with a chamois.

mleskovar

Yes, agree. That's where it all started and the common understanding. The DF microfiber towels are 100% cotton and will not scratch. How a towel is made (thread/weave/density etc.) has as much to do with its' effectiveness as the material. That's why microfiber is so popular (and not just with detailing cars)....because it works well.

Lambswool what, like a seat cover? :-) If there's a microfiber lambs wool towel I couldn't find it. Comparing detailing products today is difficult because the technology has advanced and not much separates the products. I contend that you can have a swirl free finish using any towel and protectant if the paint is properly prepared and the products are used correctly. The newer products just make it easier and seemingly longer lasting but questionably 'better' when you talk about looks IMHO. I like Klasse products because they are easy to apply and last a long time. I top it off with carnuba wax when I want more depth. Zaino has a religious following but I don't like the long application processes. I have the water base paint and although it chips easily the paint is still in great shape. I think the lambswool claim is a scam. Lambswool may last longer than cotton but why would it be better? Certainly there's no comparison in cost and availability so why lamb wool fiber?