CRB

I think you are right about the Benz being slower with the RSX engine but I trying to put all that torque down from the M111 engine might give a FWD car some serious problems. It might get tricky to get a clean launch.

goodman888

Well... can I put it that way?

Power is Voltage and Torque is Amphere?

BlackC230Coupe

I think you are talking all the info in this thread and mixing it all up.

I was the one that said my friends Celicas are beating magizine times and the RSX was slower than the magizine time. Those were all clocked on a drag strip at a real track. I was not the one who said my friend clocked it with his Seiko chrono watch, that was someone else.

Also would when eveyone is saying how the RSX might beat the C coupe please specify weather your talking about the RSX or the RSX Type-S, the coupe can definilty beat a RSX. Maybe not the Type S though.

Buellwinkle

What water vapor injection kit to you have? Did you see a difference in power? Do you run pure water or water/alcohol?

nukblazi

Pass my bag....

This thread has gone beyond the point that I could be of any value. I thought I read that a few people had the problem of Cam Gear timing issue. I know that my Service Rep. had it checked out when my car was in for Service B. I don't know enough about the gearing. Here is the thread from csportcoupe. http://www.csportcoupe.com/forums/sh...1&pagenumber=2

posted by renncpe... "The higher diff has not really helped in the 1/8 mile it has a little but not that much. 0-60 times are much better 6.4-6.5. I can still top out at 130 mph but not in 5th like before. In a day of normal driveing which is normaly hard the way I drive. I get around 18-19 mpg around town and 26 or better on the highway."

Why did no one respond to KLEEMANN's post. Seemed to be an excellent real world comparison.

goodman888

http://www.ahfung.com/car/clk320-02.html

I havent tried water/alcohol. Now testing if it can really save fuel on my car.

I always wonder how all this extra stuff can help my car when the engine has already been very fine-tuned. Still, I want to give a try.

steve s

hey x, did u c if one of ur sensors is reading something bad, and the ecu is interpretting this and cutting fuel? i mean it's only a c230k...but if u feel it losing power than what u first had, maybe the ecu's cutting back. also, check for leaks in the kompressor, that may also be another thing common in compressed air engines.

if u want to see something about this...the new s60r manual makes 300 hp and 295 lb-ft torque....the auto still makes 300 hp, but the torque is down 265 lb-ft or so...engine is basically the same..it's also a matter of gear ratios (which would also be related to rpm)...so...

didn't bmw also had the old 7-series 740iL (or was it 750iL) that u could buy with an option in different gearing that dropped the 0-60 acceleration down from around 7 to 5?

Matt230K

Since these numbers stated by manufacturers are the horsepowers at the engine, the gear ratios can have no effect on hp whatsoever, right? This is the amount of power they make before it even goes through the gearbox, so how can gear ratios have any effect?

Although, I don't actually get how gear ratios can affect hp anyway. But these different numbers for auto and manual must have something to do with engine tuning.

mdp c230k

It's obvious that no one read the links I posted about the hp/torque issue. Try and learn something and read them otherwise you are being ignorant to the facts. Torque is a force and hp is a rate. All the torque in the world will not help if you can not deliver it at a fast enough rate (hp). READ THE LINKS!
Outland you are wrong. READ!
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_755/article.html
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_744/article.html
Get some facts before you make WRONG statements, you are polluting these people with misinformation.

autobarn

If only life was as simple as you make it out to be. Obviously changing the gearing to allow the C-coupe to get to 60 in 2nd gear changes the acceleration rate within those 2 gears. I'm not doubting that a C-coupe MIGHT post a better acceleration to 60 if it did the feat in 2nd gear, but it also MIGHT NOT. There is no way to prove this objectively.

Again, swapping an engine into another car that is not meant for it will likely produce off the wall results. You make some huge presumptions in your fairy tale land of engine swaps and transmission gearing changes. If you actually knew anything about cars, you wouldn't make those presumptions without some sound evidence.

If you want to make out your car to be faster than it is, I understand that. You want to make your car seem as great as possible. Unfortunately I think this is coming at the expense of accurate information to other board members. Basically if you can't post accurate information, you shouldn't post at all.

Outland

WHAT DID I WRITE ABOVE!!! Let me repeat it for you.

Make sure you understand it befor just posting the link of an article you read...but really can't explain. I don't need to post a link for some **** that you should have learned in fricken highschool. You yourself admitted that you couldn't explain it. You should have been paying attention back in school when they were talking about James Watt.

Outland

I suggest that you burn your keyboard then.

Anyone who compares automatic times to manual times and says that they are proof of his or her theory doesn't know anything about cars. "An engine that the car is meant for"? Jeez, that's lame.

Outland

Gear ratios have nothing to do with how much torque or HP a motor makes. Torque is a measurement of force...HP is the rate its applied. The amount of power an engine makes is related to its bore, stroke, flywheel mass, intake, valvtrain, cam profiles, induction method, exhaust, etc....the gear box multiplies TORQUE thru gearing. The volvo engine has less torque in automatic form is because the volvo automatic can't handle the full torque- the engine is detuned to provide less. Torque is what snaps parts in your engine...torque is what shaves the gears, torque is what twists the driveshaft.

Matt230K

That's what I thought, thank you. I figured I would state it in a question. I knew it had nothing to do with it, but I didn't want to sound like I was giving an expert opinion. I consider myself far from an expert.

CRB

I think the auto S60R is detuned so that the tranny can handle the torque.

autobarn

If you want to see lame, take a look at your sig.

"heavy right foot (user installed)". That is the LAMEST thing I've ever seen. How long did it take you to come up with that oh-so-witty line? The sad thing is you were probably proud of yourself for thinking it up.

There's also no need for your foul-mouthed community college language here.

Outland

You must know all about community college. Probably where you were sleeping thru class.

Look whose throwing stones now? My sig? That's your great comeback? Just goes to show that you don't have a clue what you are talking about. You're worse than the guy posting pictures of his gun.

Come back when you get a clue.

nukblazi

ok-

So now let's talk about RWHP.

Will altering the gearing, increase the HP measured at the rear wheels?

Does the same formula to calulate hp at the crank apply? Which one matters more to you?

steve s

easy guys...


i must've read it somewhere, bout the torque and gear ratio...oh well. guess gearing may not help with torque. but what it does do is to either have a bonneville type car or a rabbit-out-of-the-hole car.... a more closely spaced gear ratio will allow u to constantly be in a tighter rpm range of max engine power (like f1 cars, thus no need for a large flat torque plateau) and accelerate like a mad man...or a cruiser, where acceleration is not that important but max speed is, then the gears can be stretched out so the car is either aerodynamically hindered or something rather than simply running out of gear, but u should have larger torque plateau...this way, u can have an engine that feels more flexible across a larger rpm range since u r now spending longer times in each gear (the opposite of this would be the early honda v-tec engines which were very powerful, but u had to crank it way up in the rpm to feel anything ...actually...kinda like the current s2000). what i said about the s60r may not be true (torque diff reasons anyway), but i know for sure that bmw had the same 7-series offered with an optional sports gearing package that made the car accelerate faster than the standard gearing...

autobarn

Funny how you quoted everything I said except for the part about your lame pre-pubescent sig line.

It really doesn't matter what you say at this point. One look at that line sums up your intelligence. In case anyone missed it, I'll post it again:

"heavy right foot (user installed)". That is the LAMEST thing I've ever seen. How long did it take you to come up with that oh-so-witty line? The sad thing is you were probably proud of yourself for thinking it up.

mdp c230k

Outland, its obvious that you would rather throw around names than get the facts straight. If it was torque that was the factor in a cars speed then why have we always talked about how much hp an engine makes? How is the S2000 so fast with only 154ftlbs of torque and why didnt they build the engine for more torque and less hp? The reason is hp makes a car accelerate. Your conversion factor adds the element of time creating a rate. The higher the rate of power delivery the faster the accel of the car. Didn't you learn that in school? I learned all about it in one of my physics classes at UCLA, were they wrong? Anyway, I posted those links so you could understand a simple concept with simple words you could grasp, you still didn't get it! Try this one : http://www.mustangsandmore.com/ubb/D...orqueVsHP.html

autobarn

He probably grew up with his Pa tellin' em "Issall 'bowt torque boy!"

goodman888

We usually dont argue with jerks or pig-headed, do we?

Outland

Once again, you have NOT read what I posted. Where or where did I post that torque was the only factor that determined wether a car was fast or slow? Where?

What I said earlier is still true...the ONLY FORCE your engine makes is torque. That's it. ITS ALL TORQUE.

Quote:

How is the S2000 so fast with only 154ftlbs of torque and why didnt they build the engine for more torque and less hp? The reason is hp makes a car accelerate.

No, it doesn't. Torque makes a car accellerate. Torque is the force. HP is NOT A FORCE. HP is NOT EVEN A MEASURABLE effect. No dyno measures HP. Its a calculated value derived from Torque and RPM. For the last time, Hp is the rate that torque is applied. You guys FAIL to see the truth. If you understood this, you wouldn't be so mesmerized by the HP rating. Why else is the Honda so fast. Power to wieght ratio. The S2000 motor has the same HP as the new Honda Accord. Why isn't the Accord just as fast? Obviously, its dragging along a lot more wieght. Now, since you think HP is the only thing that matters, why not just use the simpler 240HP inline four that's used in the S2000 for your accord? Oh yeah, there's no torque. You could wind it up all you want, and it wouldn't move the Accord nearly as fast as its 240HP VTEC V6. So...which 240HP motor is more powerfull now? Now which motor is more powerfull...the 192HP supercharged inline four, or the 200hp RSX.

The Hondas 240HP is very impressive. But its a factor of the high rpms multiplying the torque...don't you get it? Its still torque that accellerates your car. Here's something for you to consider....ALL engines have a 'crossover' point at 5252rpms...where the torque curve drops below the calculated HP curve. Why do think this is? The two are more than just related....without torque, there is no HP. Get it yet?

Quote:

The higher the rate of power delivery the faster the accel of the car.

The rate is a function of the RPM...get it now? Where's that HP at lower RPM's? Nope, its not there....because there's much less torque. Why do you think these motors are peaky? Because to get that at that wonderfully high HP, you have to rev it up very high to keep applying that low torque. Its obvious that youre a paper racer, and don't understand all of this.

Quote:

Didn't you learn that in school? I learned all about it in one of my physics classes at UCLA, were they wrong? Anyway, I posted those links so you could understand a simple concept with simple words you could grasp, you still didn't get it! Try this one : http://www.mustangsandmore.com/ubb/D...orqueVsHP.html

Its sad that in California you don't get taught basics physics in highschool. By college, you should have been working on more advanced concepts like the rest of us. Hope you got something out of your Super Simple Physics 090 class.

The reason you keep posting these links is that YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT HP IS. OR TORQUE. Is HP unimportant? No, not at all. But HP isn't a force your engine makes...that's been the whole point all along.

Wheens

Newton's Second Law of Motion:

Force=Mass times the acceleration (F=M*A) , or restated: Force/Mass= Acceleration

Therefore, with a constant mass, force is DIRECTLY related to acceleration.

Torque is a measure of a force's tendency to produce torsion and rotation about an axis, equal to the vector product of the radius vector from the axis of rotation to the point of application of the force and the force vector.

Thus, given a constant radius vector, torque is DIRECTLY related to acceleration.