acr2001

This is a good point, totally slipped my mind. If the calipers are indeed sticking and overheating the rotors you should probably be able to smell the brakes burning after a long ride.

Glyn M Ruck

Sticking calipers is unusual on a car seeing such frequent use. Usually happens on cars that see infrequent use. You are running out of options so you had better check this. When the dealer checked run-out did they find run-out?

jokerswld34

I agree it doesn't seem like sticking calipers as i do not get a brake smell after driving and the calipers feel like they are functioning correctly. i am indeed running out of options and im getting very frustrated. when they did the run-out check, i was told everything was within spec so i'll need to ask my SA again today if they did find any run-out. hopefully with the shop foreman involved, the problem will be diagnosed. could bends in the rim be a possibility? i have 2 small bends in the lip of my drivers side rim that are getting fixed tomorrow, but ive had them for a few months now. no real vibration while driving but could it affect the brakes in any way?

acr2001

I thought you were going to post pics of the rotors?

josephpampliega

Rebalance the wheels and verbally specify to dynamic balance (weight towards inner and towards outer). Some tire shops will only static balance if not specified or they sometimes don't recheck balance after installing weights. Also weight may have fallen off.

This issue is inherently prominent on Mercedes Benz's due to caster angle (notice the small turning radius and weird tilt when wheel is turned).

You can tell if this is the issue if after braking or hitting a bump that the steering wheel vibrates at a low to mid frequency (earthquake feel) which will go away only after significantly slowing down.

This use to happen to me on numerous models. Might be worth just checking if not resolved.

acr2001

What does this have to do with warped rotors?

josephpampliega

From my experience, it doesn't have anything to do with the rotors in regards to the shimmying according to the symptoms mentioned that. Once the shimmying gains momentum it continues to resonate till speed is reduced and that it doesn't happen everytime.

Regardless, it's hard to warp the rotors even with aggressive driving on these cars. These symptoms I have experienced on 116, 126, 201, 124, 210, 211, 140, 220, and 221 chassis especially once tires were old, weights came off, or even new and not dynamically balanced. I spent much on replacing rotors, and all were cured by dynamic balancing.

LILBENZ230

At the rate he is warping rotors he might as well be driving a Honda.

TemjinX2

actually the rotors and pads on my honda lasted 70k.

acr2001

Any time I think of Honda, I remember the cup holders in the Civic:



Proof that their engineers are idiots?
Either way, round block no fit into square hole! Honda engineers never made it through kindergarten

TemjinX2

lol the cup holders in my civic were larger then my c32. I had 5 cup holders...two 32oz and 3 16oz cup holders.

Either you havent sat in a civic in the last 5yrs or your off base..

back to topic.

acr2001

I was at a honda dealer a month or two ago looking at new Civics with someone. It was very disappointing compared to other cars in the price range. From the brochures I looked at, you couldn't even get steering wheel controls for the radio without ordering that option specifically (not included in any packages). The square cup holders just don't make any sense to me even though they are larger. Hopefully those cup holders don't make tons of rattles on bumps when carrying a Poland Spring bottle though (damn it Mercedes) Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread.

LILBENZ230

LOL I've had many Honda products, and all have had such subpar brakes. My C230 replaced a 2007 Civic Si Sedan (crashed) it had good cup holders, but brakes sucked. Anyway.. let me chime in ON topic:

I did a complete front brake job on my C230 @ 53,000 miles. New rotors, new OEM pads, fluid flush. By 57,000 miles, the rotors seemed warped. I got vibration/pulsation in the wheel and pedals during normal stops. I was furious and, though I'm too lazy to, you can probably find some posts on this forum about it. I did the bed-in procedure three times to no avail. I also did a very abusive session with the brakes, pushing them to fade then beyond to up in smoke. None of this made the stuff go away.

7,000 miles on the new brakes @60,000 miles and the vibration was gone. At 67,400 tonight it has not returned. Nothing changed, the tires are the same, no alignment has been done.. it just vanished. I can't explain how it might have happened, but it did.

TemjinX2

did you bed in the brakes? length of brakes, is more dependent on driving style. But so far my brakes have lasted about 30k with hard braking and canyon runs. I'm on oem rotors with akebono ceramics.

Some people say ceramics fade faster during hard braking, but i havent noticed my brakes fade. My tires gave out way before my brakes have so far.

jokerswld34

Tires are brand new, road-force balanced with no vibration at speeds. all the balancing weights are on and the car is smooth at all speeds until braking. this is not a tire issue. but thank you for your input

jokerswld34

That's what I'm experiencing but unfortunately its not going away for an extended period of time with new rotors. i have tried bed-in procedures and hard braking as well, only to find the brakes to feel worse. im convinced there has to be a worn suspension/steering component that is contributing but i keep hearing that everything is nice and tight, bushings and all.

johnand

Couple of questions for the OP:

1)So, the dealer has said they checked runout on hub and rotor. Did they do this prior to replacing the "warped rotors"? What I am getting at, is did they verify the rotors were truly warped?

2)I assumed they used OEM pads as replacement?

There are many cases where brake shimmy and pulsation are misdiagnosed as warped rotors, when they are not truly warped. Uneven pad material transfer from the pad to the rotor happens very frequently, and this is often the case for misdiagnosed warped rotors. There are a number of causes and different ways to fix it based on them. Please read this article and follow the recommendations and report back: http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml

Matt's post above is another indicator of what I think may be going on in your situation.

Also, pics of the rotors would really help to diagnose further.

jokerswld34

i have consulted stop-tech's white pages on various occasions and it very well could be pad deposit irregularity. i believe they did run-out on the original warped set but i do not know for sure. however, even after performing the bed-in process, the rotors got worse. i thought about trying the process stop-tech recommends of using race pads and while they are cold, doing some 30-10 stops to scrape off the resin. but, since the dealer warrantied the rotors and pads, i did not want to mess with anything until i knew for certain there is no mechanical issue (for safety sake and $$$). i have pics of the rotors on my blackberry, just need to upload them so hopefully ill get them posted today, as well as some news from MB about what's going on. ill post back this afternoon. thank you to all for continuing to add feedback.

e1000

jokerswld34

finally heard back from MB with not so great news. after more diagnostic and test drives, the shop foreman observed one of the driver side pistons to be slightly lagging intermittently, and temp variations between calipers. its not a safety issue just yet, but it is generating enough heat to warp the rotors. so, i am now going to purchase a BBK and call it a day. im not happy about having to do the brakes just yet, but at least the problem will be resolved and my braking performance will be much improved. thanks so much for everyone's input! cheers!

acr2001

Sounds like Buellwinkle was right!

daiso'

sorry for the noob question but i had all these symptoms but when i got my winter wheels balanced and put on thats when my brakes started to really feel "warpped". Could it be they over tighten the lugs? Dirty Hubs? or is it conclusive that its the calipers? jokerswld couldnt you just rebuilt your calipers? cheaper then buying a whole set

jokerswld34

could be overtightening issue, but you would have warped the rotors almost immediately after putting the tires on. if you read through this post, there could be a multitude of possibilities to the feeling of warped rotors. but, if you continue to warp them it most likely is a caliper issue. get it looked at my a tech, and have them inspect the caliper function. do run-out and check for worn suspension components.

yes, i could rebuild them for a lot less money, however, at this point i have spent way too much money diagnosing this problem to still have factory brakes. although the sport brakes are very good, they just don't have the braking power that i need to insure proper and consistent braking, at any speed or any situation. even though i spent a fortune on rotors and diagnosis, the extra $2000 for stop techs will be worth it for peace of mind and will have more than enough braking strength for my current mods, and the mods to come. i have been considering upgrading the brakes for awhile, but now i have incentive.

LILBENZ230

I'm going to respectfully disagree with this. The stock Sport brakes are extremely capable and the C230 doesn't have enough go-go-go to even really challenge them. You will probably have better feel and maybe somewhat better fade resistance (although, again, stockers have high fade resistance), but you probably won't be able to stop any quicker because tires are what matter most of all in stopping distances.

My 135i has 6-piston fronts and 2-piston rears, huge brakes for such a tiny car. The feel is a bit better but they don't seem anymore capable than the C230s, and I drive the crap out of both of these cars.

How much power are you pushing from your C230, anyway? My 330hp 3700lb G37 coupe had the standard 2-piston sliding calipers!

jokerswld34

i agree that the stocks are very good brakes. in no way am i knocking them at all. however, they are quite heavy and i have always had trouble with them at the track. as for tires, i have always chosen the best i can, from Pirellis to Ps2s, and now the iNVO. Never had a problem with grip. (my 335i brakes well, and feels much better than my MB, which kind p*sses me off since i have always lauded my sport brakes)

i don't know how much power im running as i haven't dynoed yet, but i am working on a bi boost system utilizing a remote gt28rs turbo with the OEM blower and standalone fuel management system; so i'm also trying to plan ahead. should be a fast car when its all set and done, and ill definitely need bigger brakes for the track!

i guess all in all, i have abused my stock brakes for almost 5 years, and more recently, i could never get them to feel good, like they used to. maybe my opinion on them has been jaded a little by the problems ive had with them, but the way i look at is, it can't be a bad thing to put a well-balanced 4 pot system from stop tech on the car right? whether i stop that much better or not i guess ill find out, but it does give me peace of mind if nothing else (plus they look really nice too!)

i'd also be willing to sell the calipers to someone to rebuild as an upgrade to their stock system, at a very cheap price.