Paging MB techs and gurus for brake problem!
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From: NYC
2012 C300 4Matic
With that many miles, I would suspect the calipers are sticking and I would have rebuilt the calipers or got new ones, cheap enough. What's likely happening is when the calipers are sticking which is overheating the rotors and warping them.
The other possibility, and this happens only when I got to American Tire, they overtighten the lugs and that warps the rotor. But you would have noticed that right away, not a month later.
The other possibility, and this happens only when I got to American Tire, they overtighten the lugs and that warps the rotor. But you would have noticed that right away, not a month later.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Sticking calipers is unusual on a car seeing such frequent use. Usually happens on cars that see infrequent use. You are running out of options so you had better check this. When the dealer checked run-out did they find run-out?
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From: Massachusetts
05 c230 kompressor SS 6MT & 07 BMW 335i
I agree it doesn't seem like sticking calipers as i do not get a brake smell after driving and the calipers feel like they are functioning correctly. i am indeed running out of options and im getting very frustrated. when they did the run-out check, i was told everything was within spec so i'll need to ask my SA again today if they did find any run-out. hopefully with the shop foreman involved, the problem will be diagnosed. could bends in the rim be a possibility? i have 2 small bends in the lip of my drivers side rim that are getting fixed tomorrow, but ive had them for a few months now. no real vibration while driving but could it affect the brakes in any way?
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From: NYC
2012 C300 4Matic
I agree it doesn't seem like sticking calipers as i do not get a brake smell after driving and the calipers feel like they are functioning correctly. i am indeed running out of options and im getting very frustrated. when they did the run-out check, i was told everything was within spec so i'll need to ask my SA again today if they did find any run-out. hopefully with the shop foreman involved, the problem will be diagnosed. could bends in the rim be a possibility? i have 2 small bends in the lip of my drivers side rim that are getting fixed tomorrow, but ive had them for a few months now. no real vibration while driving but could it affect the brakes in any way?
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From: Vallejo, CA USA
15 MB Sprinter, 14 MB S550, 08 Smart Fortwo, 04 Dodge Sprinter, 87 MB 190E 2.3-16
Rebalance the wheels and verbally specify to dynamic balance (weight towards inner and towards outer). Some tire shops will only static balance if not specified or they sometimes don't recheck balance after installing weights. Also weight may have fallen off.
This issue is inherently prominent on Mercedes Benz's due to caster angle (notice the small turning radius and weird tilt when wheel is turned).
You can tell if this is the issue if after braking or hitting a bump that the steering wheel vibrates at a low to mid frequency (earthquake feel) which will go away only after significantly slowing down.
This use to happen to me on numerous models. Might be worth just checking if not resolved.
This issue is inherently prominent on Mercedes Benz's due to caster angle (notice the small turning radius and weird tilt when wheel is turned).
You can tell if this is the issue if after braking or hitting a bump that the steering wheel vibrates at a low to mid frequency (earthquake feel) which will go away only after significantly slowing down.
This use to happen to me on numerous models. Might be worth just checking if not resolved.
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From: NYC
2012 C300 4Matic
Rebalance the wheels and verbally specify to dynamic balance (weight towards inner and towards outer). Some tire shops will only static balance if not specified or they sometimes don't recheck balance after installing weights. Also weight may have fallen off.
This issue is inherently prominent on Mercedes Benz's due to caster angle (notice the small turning radius and weird tilt when wheel is turned).
You can tell if this is the issue if after braking or hitting a bump that the steering wheel vibrates at a low to mid frequency (earthquake feel) which will go away only after significantly slowing down.
This use to happen to me on numerous models. Might be worth just checking if not resolved.
This issue is inherently prominent on Mercedes Benz's due to caster angle (notice the small turning radius and weird tilt when wheel is turned).
You can tell if this is the issue if after braking or hitting a bump that the steering wheel vibrates at a low to mid frequency (earthquake feel) which will go away only after significantly slowing down.
This use to happen to me on numerous models. Might be worth just checking if not resolved.
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From: Vallejo, CA USA
15 MB Sprinter, 14 MB S550, 08 Smart Fortwo, 04 Dodge Sprinter, 87 MB 190E 2.3-16
From my experience, it doesn't have anything to do with the rotors in regards to the shimmying according to the symptoms mentioned that. Once the shimmying gains momentum it continues to resonate till speed is reduced and that it doesn't happen everytime.
Regardless, it's hard to warp the rotors even with aggressive driving on these cars. These symptoms I have experienced on 116, 126, 201, 124, 210, 211, 140, 220, and 221 chassis especially once tires were old, weights came off, or even new and not dynamically balanced. I spent much on replacing rotors, and all were cured by dynamic balancing.
Regardless, it's hard to warp the rotors even with aggressive driving on these cars. These symptoms I have experienced on 116, 126, 201, 124, 210, 211, 140, 220, and 221 chassis especially once tires were old, weights came off, or even new and not dynamically balanced. I spent much on replacing rotors, and all were cured by dynamic balancing.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2007
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From: NYC
2012 C300 4Matic
Any time I think of Honda, I remember the cup holders in the Civic:
Proof that their engineers are idiots?
Either way, round block no fit into square hole!
Honda engineers never made it through kindergarten 
Last edited by acr2001; Dec 2, 2009 at 03:42 AM.
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From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
lol the cup holders in my civic were larger then my c32. I had 5 cup holders...two 32oz and 3 16oz cup holders.
Either you havent sat in a civic in the last 5yrs or your off base..
back to topic.
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From: NYC
2012 C300 4Matic
Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread.
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2019 G70 6MT & 2022 Ford Maverick XL
LOL I've had many Honda products, and all have had such subpar brakes. My C230 replaced a 2007 Civic Si Sedan (crashed) it had good cup holders, but brakes sucked. Anyway.. let me chime in ON topic:
I did a complete front brake job on my C230 @ 53,000 miles. New rotors, new OEM pads, fluid flush. By 57,000 miles, the rotors seemed warped. I got vibration/pulsation in the wheel and pedals during normal stops. I was furious and, though I'm too lazy to, you can probably find some posts on this forum about it. I did the bed-in procedure three times to no avail. I also did a very abusive session with the brakes, pushing them to fade then beyond to up in smoke. None of this made the stuff go away.
7,000 miles on the new brakes @60,000 miles and the vibration was gone. At 67,400 tonight it has not returned. Nothing changed, the tires are the same, no alignment has been done.. it just vanished. I can't explain how it might have happened, but it did.
I did a complete front brake job on my C230 @ 53,000 miles. New rotors, new OEM pads, fluid flush. By 57,000 miles, the rotors seemed warped. I got vibration/pulsation in the wheel and pedals during normal stops. I was furious and, though I'm too lazy to, you can probably find some posts on this forum about it. I did the bed-in procedure three times to no avail. I also did a very abusive session with the brakes, pushing them to fade then beyond to up in smoke. None of this made the stuff go away.
7,000 miles on the new brakes @60,000 miles and the vibration was gone. At 67,400 tonight it has not returned. Nothing changed, the tires are the same, no alignment has been done.. it just vanished. I can't explain how it might have happened, but it did.
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From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
did you bed in the brakes? length of brakes, is more dependent on driving style. But so far my brakes have lasted about 30k with hard braking and canyon runs. I'm on oem rotors with akebono ceramics.
Some people say ceramics fade faster during hard braking, but i havent noticed my brakes fade. My tires gave out way before my brakes have so far.
Some people say ceramics fade faster during hard braking, but i havent noticed my brakes fade. My tires gave out way before my brakes have so far.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Massachusetts
05 c230 kompressor SS 6MT & 07 BMW 335i
From my experience, it doesn't have anything to do with the rotors in regards to the shimmying according to the symptoms mentioned that. Once the shimmying gains momentum it continues to resonate till speed is reduced and that it doesn't happen everytime.
Regardless, it's hard to warp the rotors even with aggressive driving on these cars. These symptoms I have experienced on 116, 126, 201, 124, 210, 211, 140, 220, and 221 chassis especially once tires were old, weights came off, or even new and not dynamically balanced. I spent much on replacing rotors, and all were cured by dynamic balancing.
Regardless, it's hard to warp the rotors even with aggressive driving on these cars. These symptoms I have experienced on 116, 126, 201, 124, 210, 211, 140, 220, and 221 chassis especially once tires were old, weights came off, or even new and not dynamically balanced. I spent much on replacing rotors, and all were cured by dynamic balancing.
Tires are brand new, road-force balanced with no vibration at speeds. all the balancing weights are on and the car is smooth at all speeds until braking. this is not a tire issue. but thank you for your input
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Massachusetts
05 c230 kompressor SS 6MT & 07 BMW 335i
LOL I've had many Honda products, and all have had such subpar brakes. My C230 replaced a 2007 Civic Si Sedan (crashed) it had good cup holders, but brakes sucked. Anyway.. let me chime in ON topic:
I did a complete front brake job on my C230 @ 53,000 miles. New rotors, new OEM pads, fluid flush. By 57,000 miles, the rotors seemed warped. I got vibration/pulsation in the wheel and pedals during normal stops. I was furious and, though I'm too lazy to, you can probably find some posts on this forum about it. I did the bed-in procedure three times to no avail. I also did a very abusive session with the brakes, pushing them to fade then beyond to up in smoke. None of this made the stuff go away.
7,000 miles on the new brakes @60,000 miles and the vibration was gone. At 67,400 tonight it has not returned. Nothing changed, the tires are the same, no alignment has been done.. it just vanished. I can't explain how it might have happened, but it did.
I did a complete front brake job on my C230 @ 53,000 miles. New rotors, new OEM pads, fluid flush. By 57,000 miles, the rotors seemed warped. I got vibration/pulsation in the wheel and pedals during normal stops. I was furious and, though I'm too lazy to, you can probably find some posts on this forum about it. I did the bed-in procedure three times to no avail. I also did a very abusive session with the brakes, pushing them to fade then beyond to up in smoke. None of this made the stuff go away.
7,000 miles on the new brakes @60,000 miles and the vibration was gone. At 67,400 tonight it has not returned. Nothing changed, the tires are the same, no alignment has been done.. it just vanished. I can't explain how it might have happened, but it did.
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From: Camas, WA
2007 C230SS; 2014 ML350 BT
Couple of questions for the OP:
1)So, the dealer has said they checked runout on hub and rotor. Did they do this prior to replacing the "warped rotors"? What I am getting at, is did they verify the rotors were truly warped?
2)I assumed they used OEM pads as replacement?
There are many cases where brake shimmy and pulsation are misdiagnosed as warped rotors, when they are not truly warped. Uneven pad material transfer from the pad to the rotor happens very frequently, and this is often the case for misdiagnosed warped rotors. There are a number of causes and different ways to fix it based on them. Please read this article and follow the recommendations and report back: http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml
Matt's post above is another indicator of what I think may be going on in your situation.
Also, pics of the rotors would really help to diagnose further.
1)So, the dealer has said they checked runout on hub and rotor. Did they do this prior to replacing the "warped rotors"? What I am getting at, is did they verify the rotors were truly warped?
2)I assumed they used OEM pads as replacement?
There are many cases where brake shimmy and pulsation are misdiagnosed as warped rotors, when they are not truly warped. Uneven pad material transfer from the pad to the rotor happens very frequently, and this is often the case for misdiagnosed warped rotors. There are a number of causes and different ways to fix it based on them. Please read this article and follow the recommendations and report back: http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...rakedisk.shtml
Matt's post above is another indicator of what I think may be going on in your situation.
Also, pics of the rotors would really help to diagnose further.
Last edited by johnand; Dec 2, 2009 at 11:13 AM.
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From: Massachusetts
05 c230 kompressor SS 6MT & 07 BMW 335i
i have consulted stop-tech's white pages on various occasions and it very well could be pad deposit irregularity. i believe they did run-out on the original warped set but i do not know for sure. however, even after performing the bed-in process, the rotors got worse. i thought about trying the process stop-tech recommends of using race pads and while they are cold, doing some 30-10 stops to scrape off the resin. but, since the dealer warrantied the rotors and pads, i did not want to mess with anything until i knew for certain there is no mechanical issue (for safety sake and $$$). i have pics of the rotors on my blackberry, just need to upload them so hopefully ill get them posted today, as well as some news from MB about what's going on. ill post back this afternoon. thank you to all for continuing to add feedback.
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From: Massachusetts
05 c230 kompressor SS 6MT & 07 BMW 335i
finally heard back from MB with not so great news. after more diagnostic and test drives, the shop foreman observed one of the driver side pistons to be slightly lagging intermittently, and temp variations between calipers. its not a safety issue just yet, but it is generating enough heat to warp the rotors. so, i am now going to purchase a BBK and call it a day. im not happy about having to do the brakes just yet, but at least the problem will be resolved and my braking performance will be much improved. thanks so much for everyone's input! cheers!
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Joined: Nov 2007
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From: NYC
2012 C300 4Matic
finally heard back from MB with not so great news. after more diagnostic and test drives, the shop foreman observed one of the driver side pistons to be slightly lagging intermittently, and temp variations between calipers. its not a safety issue just yet, but it is generating enough heat to warp the rotors. so, i am now going to purchase a BBK and call it a day. im not happy about having to do the brakes just yet, but at least the problem will be resolved and my braking performance will be much improved. thanks so much for everyone's input! cheers!
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2005 c230 sport, k7 gsxr
sorry for the noob question but i had all these symptoms but when i got my winter wheels balanced and put on thats when my brakes started to really feel "warpped". Could it be they over tighten the lugs? Dirty Hubs? or is it conclusive that its the calipers? jokerswld couldnt you just rebuilt your calipers? cheaper then buying a whole set
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From: Massachusetts
05 c230 kompressor SS 6MT & 07 BMW 335i
could be overtightening issue, but you would have warped the rotors almost immediately after putting the tires on. if you read through this post, there could be a multitude of possibilities to the feeling of warped rotors. but, if you continue to warp them it most likely is a caliper issue. get it looked at my a tech, and have them inspect the caliper function. do run-out and check for worn suspension components.
yes, i could rebuild them for a lot less money, however, at this point i have spent way too much money diagnosing this problem to still have factory brakes. although the sport brakes are very good, they just don't have the braking power that i need to insure proper and consistent braking, at any speed or any situation. even though i spent a fortune on rotors and diagnosis, the extra $2000 for stop techs will be worth it for peace of mind and will have more than enough braking strength for my current mods, and the mods to come. i have been considering upgrading the brakes for awhile, but now i have incentive.
yes, i could rebuild them for a lot less money, however, at this point i have spent way too much money diagnosing this problem to still have factory brakes. although the sport brakes are very good, they just don't have the braking power that i need to insure proper and consistent braking, at any speed or any situation. even though i spent a fortune on rotors and diagnosis, the extra $2000 for stop techs will be worth it for peace of mind and will have more than enough braking strength for my current mods, and the mods to come. i have been considering upgrading the brakes for awhile, but now i have incentive.
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2019 G70 6MT & 2022 Ford Maverick XL
My 135i has 6-piston fronts and 2-piston rears, huge brakes for such a tiny car. The feel is a bit better but they don't seem anymore capable than the C230s, and I drive the crap out of both of these cars.
How much power are you pushing from your C230, anyway? My 330hp 3700lb G37 coupe had the standard 2-piston sliding calipers!
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From: Massachusetts
05 c230 kompressor SS 6MT & 07 BMW 335i
I'm going to respectfully disagree with this. The stock Sport brakes are extremely capable and the C230 doesn't have enough go-go-go to even really challenge them. You will probably have better feel and maybe somewhat better fade resistance (although, again, stockers have high fade resistance), but you probably won't be able to stop any quicker because tires are what matter most of all in stopping distances.
My 135i has 6-piston fronts and 2-piston rears, huge brakes for such a tiny car. The feel is a bit better but they don't seem anymore capable than the C230s, and I drive the crap out of both of these cars.
How much power are you pushing from your C230, anyway? My 330hp 3700lb G37 coupe had the standard 2-piston sliding calipers!
My 135i has 6-piston fronts and 2-piston rears, huge brakes for such a tiny car. The feel is a bit better but they don't seem anymore capable than the C230s, and I drive the crap out of both of these cars.
How much power are you pushing from your C230, anyway? My 330hp 3700lb G37 coupe had the standard 2-piston sliding calipers!
i don't know how much power im running as i haven't dynoed yet, but i am working on a bi boost system utilizing a remote gt28rs turbo with the OEM blower and standalone fuel management system; so i'm also trying to plan ahead. should be a fast car when its all set and done, and ill definitely need bigger brakes for the track!
i guess all in all, i have abused my stock brakes for almost 5 years, and more recently, i could never get them to feel good, like they used to. maybe my opinion on them has been jaded a little by the problems ive had with them, but the way i look at is, it can't be a bad thing to put a well-balanced 4 pot system from stop tech on the car right? whether i stop that much better or not i guess ill find out, but it does give me peace of mind if nothing else (plus they look really nice too!)
i'd also be willing to sell the calipers to someone to rebuild as an upgrade to their stock system, at a very cheap price.
