Stage 2/3 results are in
03-10-2003, 01:50 PM
#1
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Stage 2/3 results are in
Sorry it took so long but I finally have results from testing with stage 2 and 3 ECU fuel correctives. As I've posted in the past, I lost 17 rwhp with stage 3 but I got decent a/f ratios. Some of the tuners suggested Stage 2 as a better compromise and it is better, I only lost over 12 rwhp. So now I'm back to base settings (do not confuse stage 1 with base) and back up to full strength, woo-hoo 
03-10-2003, 05:07 PM
#3
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Sure, a chip would help but I'm waiting for the GIAC chip, in the meantime I'll try to keep the revs over 5,500 rpm because at that point it gets richer again
03-10-2003, 07:07 PM
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01 C200 Kompressor, 02 C32 AMG
This stage 2/3 ... is this in regards to Fuel quantity or the other one (I forgot the correct name for it ... the one that relates to octane level).....
At the moment I have my fuel quantity is set to 2 and the other one is still stock.
At the moment I have my fuel quantity is set to 2 and the other one is still stock.
03-10-2003, 07:54 PM
#7
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Originally posted by gab
so buell are you saying that stage 2 cause your loss of power? so are you back to stage 1 now? are you putting back your intercooler and see if it makes any additional power?
so buell are you saying that stage 2 cause your loss of power? so are you back to stage 1 now? are you putting back your intercooler and see if it makes any additional power?
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03-10-2003, 08:43 PM
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2010 C300 4matic
Buell, are you sure that base is different from stage 1? I thought they were the same.
So you did a dyno at base right? Was this a long time ago or did you just do another? And stage 2 was 12hp less than that?
I moved back to stage 1 a couple months ago and couldn't feel any additional power, so I just went back to stage 2 to be safe.
So you did a dyno at base right? Was this a long time ago or did you just do another? And stage 2 was 12hp less than that?
I moved back to stage 1 a couple months ago and couldn't feel any additional power, so I just went back to stage 2 to be safe.
03-10-2003, 09:03 PM
#10
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I did the dyno with stage 2 about a week or two ago, same time of day, same dyno and I did BASE today. Since I lost power with Stage 2 and Stage 3 I would imagine that Stage 1 would also lose power. Stage 1 and Base are not the same setting.
QC1, I changed the setting for the pulley months ago to stage 3 and then stage 2. I set it back to BASE to get my power back, 12 HP at the rear wheels is very significant and so is the 18 ft-lbs of torque at rear wheels I lost. This was recommended by Renncpe and Kleemann to their customers to compensate for a lean a/f ratio under certain conditions for very brief points of time. It was believed if the a/f ratio was enrichened to 12.5:1 from the 13.5:1 to 14:1 then it would gain power and would reduce detonation but I actually lost power and I have a scanner and I see no evidence of detonation or timing being pulled back with the settings at base so what's the point of changing it.
The intercooler has nothing to do with this and doesn't help a/f ratio, it just keeps intake temps from getting too high. As a reference point during intercooler road testing the Renntech intercooler kept max air intake temps down about 37-38F degrees on 2 different coupes on a 75 degree day. The point of the aftermarket intercooler is to keep performance consistant so you don't lose power as you drive more and more aggresively, specially on a warm day.
QC1, I changed the setting for the pulley months ago to stage 3 and then stage 2. I set it back to BASE to get my power back, 12 HP at the rear wheels is very significant and so is the 18 ft-lbs of torque at rear wheels I lost. This was recommended by Renncpe and Kleemann to their customers to compensate for a lean a/f ratio under certain conditions for very brief points of time. It was believed if the a/f ratio was enrichened to 12.5:1 from the 13.5:1 to 14:1 then it would gain power and would reduce detonation but I actually lost power and I have a scanner and I see no evidence of detonation or timing being pulled back with the settings at base so what's the point of changing it.
The intercooler has nothing to do with this and doesn't help a/f ratio, it just keeps intake temps from getting too high. As a reference point during intercooler road testing the Renntech intercooler kept max air intake temps down about 37-38F degrees on 2 different coupes on a 75 degree day. The point of the aftermarket intercooler is to keep performance consistant so you don't lose power as you drive more and more aggresively, specially on a warm day.
03-10-2003, 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by Buellwinkle
As a reference point during intercooler road testing the Renntech intercooler kept max air intake temps down about 37-38F degrees on 2 different coupes on a 75 degree day. The point of the aftermarket intercooler is to keep performance consistant so you don't lose power as you drive more and more aggresively, specially on a warm day.
As a reference point during intercooler road testing the Renntech intercooler kept max air intake temps down about 37-38F degrees on 2 different coupes on a 75 degree day. The point of the aftermarket intercooler is to keep performance consistant so you don't lose power as you drive more and more aggresively, specially on a warm day.
What I could believe is a 38F reduction of measured temps of the facory IC on a 75F day. Is this what you meant to say?
An EATON M45 SC using a boost pulley on a C230 should ADD about 140F to 170F to ambient air temps. So on the 75F day at WOT at redline the air exiting the sc will be 245F. A 100% efficient air to air IC (which does not exist as an impossibilty of science) would have the air leaving the IC at ambient, 75F. You cannot cool lower than ambient air with an air to air IC (without the introduction of energy).
How did you datalog your temps? I am curious to know your findings (really, in all seriousness).
Last edited by Brandon @ Kleemann; 03-10-2003 at 10:25 PM.
03-10-2003, 10:42 PM
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I will continue to potentially poke the stick at the dead animal which is this A/F debate and ask: How can you have a mixture problem when moving your measured A/F ratio towards the "ideal" 12.5:1 resulted in a loss of power? This contradicts virtually all printed material about the subject.
Yes- I am looking for a fiesty debate on this topic.
Attached is an over simplified chart showing the relationship to measured A/F ratio and ex emssions and TQ.
How could you really be running dangerously lean ratios when changing fuel settings to get a measured 12.5:1 results in a 5% (approximate) loss in power? According to this chart you should have seen an increase.
Yes- I am looking for a fiesty debate on this topic.
Attached is an over simplified chart showing the relationship to measured A/F ratio and ex emssions and TQ.
How could you really be running dangerously lean ratios when changing fuel settings to get a measured 12.5:1 results in a 5% (approximate) loss in power? According to this chart you should have seen an increase.
03-10-2003, 10:45 PM
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2002 C230 Coupe(M111)
Originally posted by KLEEMANN
Why did you sell it? You had the physics defying intercooler! Are you actually saying that intake temps were measured at 38F on a 75F day? This is impossible.
What I could believe is a 38F reduction of measured temps of the facory IC on a 75F day. Is this what you meant to say?
An EATON M45 SC using a boost pulley on a C230 should ADD about 140F to 170F to ambient air temps. So on the 75F day at WOT at redline the air exiting the sc will be 245F. A 100% efficient air to air IC (which does not exist as an impossibilty of science) would have the air leaving the IC at ambient, 75F. You cannot cool lower than ambient air with an air to air IC (without the introduction of energy).
How did you datalog your temps? I am curious to know your findings (really, in all seriousness).
Why did you sell it? You had the physics defying intercooler! Are you actually saying that intake temps were measured at 38F on a 75F day? This is impossible.
What I could believe is a 38F reduction of measured temps of the facory IC on a 75F day. Is this what you meant to say?
An EATON M45 SC using a boost pulley on a C230 should ADD about 140F to 170F to ambient air temps. So on the 75F day at WOT at redline the air exiting the sc will be 245F. A 100% efficient air to air IC (which does not exist as an impossibilty of science) would have the air leaving the IC at ambient, 75F. You cannot cool lower than ambient air with an air to air IC (without the introduction of energy).
How did you datalog your temps? I am curious to know your findings (really, in all seriousness).
03-10-2003, 10:46 PM
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Brandon, I said I was down 37-38F degrees, not down to 37-38F. Sorry if that sounded confusing. I showed a max of 118F on the Renntech and 156F on the factory intercooler after 3 hard runs on a 75F day. Normal cruising the temps where at about 92F. That's pretty good I think. On another car I showed 108F on the Renntech after 2 hard runs and 145F with two similar runs with the stock intercooler. One coupe was an automatic and mine is a 6-speed.
As for logging the temps I used an OBD-2 scanner from OBD-2.com, a great program with zero instructions, thank goodness I had someone that had it for years to consult with.
BlackC230Coupe, the one being sold right now is because he wants to sell his coupe for a sedan which he mentioned doing a month ago. Believe me, if I sold my coupe I would take every mod off and sell it seperately to recoupe some of my costs and the new MB owner isn't likely to going appreciate it anyway. As for me, part of the the money is being spent wisely on future enhancements. Part on a cruise (which are really cheap now with almost certain war looming). I'll let you know what I come up with when they come to fruition.
As for logging the temps I used an OBD-2 scanner from OBD-2.com, a great program with zero instructions, thank goodness I had someone that had it for years to consult with.
BlackC230Coupe, the one being sold right now is because he wants to sell his coupe for a sedan which he mentioned doing a month ago. Believe me, if I sold my coupe I would take every mod off and sell it seperately to recoupe some of my costs and the new MB owner isn't likely to going appreciate it anyway. As for me, part of the the money is being spent wisely on future enhancements. Part on a cruise (which are really cheap now with almost certain war looming). I'll let you know what I come up with when they come to fruition.
03-10-2003, 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by Buellwinkle
Brandon, I said I was down 37-38F degrees, not down to 37-38F. Sorry if that sounded confusing. I showed a max of 118F on the Renntech and 156F on the factory intercooler after 3 hard runs on a 75F day. Normal cruising the temps where at about 92F. That's pretty good I think. On another car I showed 108F on the Renntech after 2 hard runs and 145F with two similar runs with the stock intercooler. One coupe was an automatic and mine is a 6-speed.
As for logging the temps I used an OBD-2 scanner from OBD-2.com, a great program with zero instructions, thank goodness I had someone that had it for years to consult with.
Brandon, I said I was down 37-38F degrees, not down to 37-38F. Sorry if that sounded confusing. I showed a max of 118F on the Renntech and 156F on the factory intercooler after 3 hard runs on a 75F day. Normal cruising the temps where at about 92F. That's pretty good I think. On another car I showed 108F on the Renntech after 2 hard runs and 145F with two similar runs with the stock intercooler. One coupe was an automatic and mine is a 6-speed.
As for logging the temps I used an OBD-2 scanner from OBD-2.com, a great program with zero instructions, thank goodness I had someone that had it for years to consult with.
03-10-2003, 11:30 PM
#17
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Originally posted by KLEEMANN
How could you really be running dangerously lean ratios when changing fuel settings to get a measured 12.5:1 results in a 5% (approximate) loss in power? According to this chart you should have seen an increase.
How could you really be running dangerously lean ratios when changing fuel settings to get a measured 12.5:1 results in a 5% (approximate) loss in power? According to this chart you should have seen an increase.
03-10-2003, 11:37 PM
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Fuel quantity pretty much says it all. In the WIS (werkstationinformationsystem) the fuel quantiy function is described as a 2.5% increase in fuel volume at cold start, idle and WOT per stage, for tuning of driveabilty complaints or meeting CO% under accel.
The ignition setting adjusts timing based of fuel quality. Did you look at total timing advance with your pocket OBDII tool?
The ignition setting adjusts timing based of fuel quality. Did you look at total timing advance with your pocket OBDII tool?
03-11-2003, 01:01 AM
#20
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Originally posted by KLEEMANN
Fuel quantity pretty much says it all. In the WIS (werkstationinformationsystem) the fuel quantiy function is described as a 2.5% increase in fuel volume at cold start, idle and WOT per stage, for tuning of driveabilty complaints or meeting CO% under accel.
The ignition setting adjusts timing based of fuel quality. Did you look at total timing advance with your pocket OBDII tool?
Fuel quantity pretty much says it all. In the WIS (werkstationinformationsystem) the fuel quantiy function is described as a 2.5% increase in fuel volume at cold start, idle and WOT per stage, for tuning of driveabilty complaints or meeting CO% under accel.
The ignition setting adjusts timing based of fuel quality. Did you look at total timing advance with your pocket OBDII tool?
07-13-2016, 08:33 AM
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CLK 320 W208
I know it is a forgotten discussion, but I am a little confused. I have CLK320 C208. I had cats off, sport exhaust and K&N filter. I drive my car with A98 fuel. I set IGN at Base nad Fuel quantity at Stage 3. What is your advise ? May I set everything to Base or what ? Please help. I want HP. Don't care about fuel ecconomy.
