C280 4matic working?
01-11-2010, 11:35 PM
#26
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01-11-2010, 11:45 PM
#27
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1999 CLK320 (sold), 2007 C230 SS (gone), 2000 Grand Marquis, 2011 CR-Z, stay tuned...
ESP responds as a direct result to traction. Traction is affected by many different things, one of which may be speed. It would be much more accurate to cite centrifugal/lateral force as the culprit rather than speed. Correlation does not imply causation. Just because there is a correlation between speed and the activation of ESP, does not imply the causation.
On top of that, you don't make friends by coming in and insulting the people that have been here and contributed for a long time. You've expressed your point, and been refuted. It is now time for you to sit down and shut up!
On top of that, you don't make friends by coming in and insulting the people that have been here and contributed for a long time. You've expressed your point, and been refuted. It is now time for you to sit down and shut up!
I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, but consider the "bad weather" conditions of the original post to start with, but even so:
If you are driving 50MPH on dry roads and hit a patch of black ice, you're going to slip/slide (if it's a long enough patch, you'll be in trouble). If you're driving at 10MPH you probably won't slide at all. You're sliding because you've lost traction. You've lost traction because you're traveling too quickly for the icy conditions.
If you're at a stop and you floor your C63AMG, you're going to spin your tires a bit because your wheels are moving faster than they can maintain their "friction point." If you don't floor it, they won't spin because you're driving at a speed that allows them to maintain contact with the road.
The car starting to slide due to "forces from the curve breaking the friction point of your tires" could happen on completely dry roads as well as icy roads. If you are going too fast around a tight bend on dry roads you'll slide and ESP will correct. If you're driving at a speed that maintains the "friction point of your tires" then you won't slide and ESP won't kick in. Speed determines your tire's "friction point."
ESP has EVERYTHING to do with how fast you're traveling. If you drive at 3MPH, it would probably NEVER light up, even in very bad conditions. To phrase another way:
Is there a circumstance in which ESP starts correcting that could be avoided by driving at a faster speed? (i.e. ESP lights up at 50MPH, but if I had been going 60MPH, it would not have engaged.)
Is there an instance where you should immediately speed up when you see the ESP light come on?
If you are driving 50MPH on dry roads and hit a patch of black ice, you're going to slip/slide (if it's a long enough patch, you'll be in trouble). If you're driving at 10MPH you probably won't slide at all. You're sliding because you've lost traction. You've lost traction because you're traveling too quickly for the icy conditions.
If you're at a stop and you floor your C63AMG, you're going to spin your tires a bit because your wheels are moving faster than they can maintain their "friction point." If you don't floor it, they won't spin because you're driving at a speed that allows them to maintain contact with the road.
The car starting to slide due to "forces from the curve breaking the friction point of your tires" could happen on completely dry roads as well as icy roads. If you are going too fast around a tight bend on dry roads you'll slide and ESP will correct. If you're driving at a speed that maintains the "friction point of your tires" then you won't slide and ESP won't kick in. Speed determines your tire's "friction point."
ESP has EVERYTHING to do with how fast you're traveling. If you drive at 3MPH, it would probably NEVER light up, even in very bad conditions. To phrase another way:
Is there a circumstance in which ESP starts correcting that could be avoided by driving at a faster speed? (i.e. ESP lights up at 50MPH, but if I had been going 60MPH, it would not have engaged.)
Is there an instance where you should immediately speed up when you see the ESP light come on?
01-12-2010, 12:26 AM
#28
Senior Member
ESP responds as a direct result to traction. Traction is affected by many different things, one of which may be speed. It would be much more accurate to cite centrifugal/lateral force as the culprit rather than speed. Correlation does not imply causation. Just because there is a correlation between speed and the activation of ESP, does not imply the causation.
So, one of the things that affects traction "may" be speed. Thanks. Another "may" be bald tires I'm guessing? If my parked car loses traction, will my ESP come on? [oops--I forgot--no answers to any rhetorical questions posed are forthcoming.]
First, I'll decide when I've been "refuted". Second, I'm already sitting down. Third, I'm typing, not talking. Fourth, I have plenty of friends. I come here to get info and give info. I'll remember to genuflect and kiss the rings of all the Grand Poobahs who know really big words like "causation" and "correlation." If I forget to do that, I know you'll forgive me, being Masters of the Universe and all.
Last edited by FraKctured; 01-12-2010 at 12:33 AM.
01-12-2010, 02:42 AM
#29
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2012 C300 4Matic
ESP responds as a direct result to traction. Traction is affected by many different things, one of which may be speed. It would be much more accurate to cite centrifugal/lateral force as the culprit rather than speed. Correlation does not imply causation. Just because there is a correlation between speed and the activation of ESP, does not imply the causation.
Thread over.
01-13-2010, 03:53 PM
#31
Super Moderator
01-13-2010, 04:35 PM
#32
Super Member
01-18-2010, 10:32 PM
#35
Senior Member
Manual's ESP advice
Here's what the MB owner's manual says about how the driver should respond to ESP warnings:
"What to do if....
The Yellow ESP Warning lamp flashes while driving.
Suggested Solution
1. When driving off, apply as little throttle as possible
2. While driving, ease up on the accelerator
3. Adapt your speed and driving to the prevailing road and weather conditions"
#1=slower acceleration
#2=slow down, but don't necessarily hit the brakes (obviously)
#3=slow down
Maybe Mercedes needs some instruction on centrifugal/lateral force and correlation/causation, because it seems that they mistakenly think that lowering your speed/acceleration is the answer when your ESP engages.
Last edited by FraKctured; 01-18-2010 at 11:18 PM.
01-18-2010, 10:56 PM
#36
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2000 ML320
Sorry to differ with you FraKctured, but driving or handling any vehicle has absolutely nothing to do with speed, whether you are driving slowly, or fastly. ESP is an acronym for Extra Speed Protocol. When your ESP goes on, you should SPEED UP as quickly as possible. Ya see, if you've ever driven a car, like me and several anointed others, you would know this.
And the instructions in the manual? Utter nonsense. Speed, or any other factor relating to vehicular ambulation may, and I repeat, may only have effect on maintaining forward protuberance, but only if the vehicle is turned on, and operating on what we call a road.
And the instructions in the manual? Utter nonsense. Speed, or any other factor relating to vehicular ambulation may, and I repeat, may only have effect on maintaining forward protuberance, but only if the vehicle is turned on, and operating on what we call a road.
Last edited by Steerpike; 01-18-2010 at 11:30 PM.
01-19-2010, 03:23 PM
#37
Senior Member
Sorry to differ with you FraKctured, but driving or handling any vehicle has absolutely nothing to do with speed, whether you are driving slowly, or fastly. ESP is an acronym for Extra Speed Protocol. When your ESP goes on, you should SPEED UP as quickly as possible. Ya see, if you've ever driven a car, like me and several anointed others, you would know this.
And the instructions in the manual? Utter nonsense. Speed, or any other factor relating to vehicular ambulation may, and I repeat, may only have effect on maintaining forward protuberance, but only if the vehicle is turned on, and operating on what we call a road.
And the instructions in the manual? Utter nonsense. Speed, or any other factor relating to vehicular ambulation may, and I repeat, may only have effect on maintaining forward protuberance, but only if the vehicle is turned on, and operating on what we call a road.
