Glyn M Ruck

They lost their way!!!

FrankW

sorry to hear that.

but that's why I usually get new tires around rain season.

was driving on the 10fwy when it hailed for a good 10 min...30mph on the freeway. temp dropped from 55F to 43F in matter of seconds...FUN! new rear tire on the W204 was a good choice. lol

during


aftermath

shivi1345

^ yea I got those little hail pellets too

My tires were OK I thought......


I've really found a nice C43 right in my range......should I really pass b/c of the safety? What should I get instead for < $10K?

TemjinX2

C32!...lol.

FrankW

i'm now following...what because of safety??

C43 is nice if mileage is fairly low.

TemjinX2

he's talking about how the c43 would be less safe in a accident then a w203 because of the lower crash test ratings.

shivi1345

^ exactly.....Glyn said it's safety sucked

I haven't really found a low mileage C43.....but I've found a very clean one w/ a new tranny.......


.....and the lowest I've seen a nice C32 for was like $14

nlpamg

no offense, but you lost control of a w203 in the rain, why on earth are you going to get a car that's harder to control and doesn't have that complicated of a safety net?

I personally love the C43 and have always wanted to get one, but I would never have that car as my primary car...

driving a w202, even if it's a facelifted w202 in a 1998 or up C43, will be like your w203 with ESP not functioning. I had a 1997 pre-facelift C280 with NO ESP (ESP was not available on the w202 until the facelift in 1998) and that car's tail spun out on me a few times in the rain (even with good Pirelli's). it's handling in the rain is greatly inferior to the w203. you're still a younger driver with not that much skill or seat time on your hands, you shouldn't be making things more difficult on yourself and put yourself in the line of getting into another accident just so you can have a "cool" car. it's very akin to the kids who buy used E46 M3's, don't know what they're doing, immediately turn off DSC and put the car into S6 b/c "it's the fastest shift speed" and end up going into a wall.

good luck.

shivi1345

^ obviously being careful has a huge role to play. Furthermore, I'm quite freaked out by the rain now.....I might be one of those people who pulls over and stops on the fwy when standing water puddles appear in the pouring rain. I'm not going to say "190 hp was too much then, so from now on it's gotta be even less than that"........I'd say "I really need to be on my toes in these situations now."

With no ESP and RWD in wet conditions the back will kick out in any car. My neighbor really drilled that in to my head.......he has a newer Ford F250 V8 turbo diesel (it has some kind of Traction Control I'm sure). The day he saw my crashed car on the driveway he came over and goes "I know exactly what happened. You don't even need to tell me. Your car and my truck are RWD.When it's wet the back is sliding 24/7. You reallllllllllllllllly need to watch it. Don't get cocky....you're never really 100% in control." (1999 C43 has ESP btw)

I definitely did underestimate the danger of heavy heavy rain, having never really experienced it before. I know what ice is like, but I didn't know that rain could act the same way

I don't want to be scared away from sporty cars b/c of what happened. Even though it has 300hp doesn't mean I'll do crazy sh*t......self control is an important skill. It's all about learning, no?

FrankW

FWD and RWD has little to do with losing control in the rain. what your neighbor said just sounds retarded. the reason his truck is hard to drive in the rain is simply because its got tons of torque and those truck tires are junk in rain.

any good tires will keep the hydroplaning to minimum and the rest is just the driver's ability to pay attention to the road while driving in the rain. I've never had any issue with the 203 or 204 in the rain other than when the rear tires were bald which in those cases I would be more careful.

nlpamg

it's good that you learned your lesson. but, I still think you need more experience before you get any "performance" car. I drive the M5 in P500S (full 507+hp) in the rain. stupid you ask? the rear 285 PS2's absolutely do not break free more in the rain than they do than in the dry. I know what the car can and can't do. I've taken it on numerous skidpads. I'm confident in myself and in the car. I know what DSC/MDM can do and have had the proper time and training in it. whereas you may be a little overconfident. take some classes, please and be careful.

I'm well aware that a 1999 C43 has ESP. ESP was available in the w202's in 1998 (and I even mentioned that). However, please keep in mind, that the technology 10 years ago for ESP has GREATLY changed and is still maturing. You can't think b/c this car has an early form of ESP that it will be just as safe as your w203. the w202 does not evoke that much confidence in the rain, this is coming from a prior w202 owner.

also, if you think that buying a 1999 C43 is a smart move, please keep in mind that it's a 10 - 11 year old car that will need a significant amount of maintenance and refurbishment and that will cost you a lot more in the end.

TemjinX2

Franks right...the tires makes the difference for traction, not whether its rwd or fwd. Its just easier to recover in a fwd or awd car since most people know how to handle understeer rather then oversteer in a rwd car.

Glyn M Ruck

Yes - This is why Phil is right on skid pan work. Getting used to feathering the throttle & staying off the brakes to achieve steering does not come intuitively in these situations until you have some practice. People always want to brake & steer on the slippery stuff at the same time - even with ABS this does not work. You have to stay off the brakes unless you are in a straight line. When I did my advanced driving course the number of people that could not keep off the brakes & steer out of trouble was alarming. When you get a fright you instinctivelly want to brake. I do a skid pan refresher every two years so it comes naturally.

Norwichdelta06

you are absolutely right with the tires and a recovery from a FWD is a lot easier then RWD. Plz correct me if i'm wrong. Most people who are not mechnically inclineded do not realize that ur car used 70% of the front brakes. Your car does not brake eventually. The reason for that is because you want the car to follow where you steer the wheel so if most brake force is applied to the wheels that steer the vehicle will most of the time follow the tires path. That's why always it's easier to recovery because all you need to do is let go the gas in a FWD and the car will engine brake slowly for you. As a RWD when u downshift of let the gas go the Rear wheels pull u back and even though u turn ur wheel to whatever directions it will not be as efective due to the rear wheels pulling ur car physicall back.

TemjinX2

Yeah your basically right. In fwd drive, your understeering because the front wheels has lost traction because you took a corner too fast or water is causing you to lose traction and since the power is coming from the front.

Most peoples reaction is to brake or take off their pedal off the accelerator, which is the correct action for fwd and understeering since the tires will regain traction once you slow down enough.

Rwd drive tends to lost traction in the rear tires since the power is coming from the rear and the majority of the weight is in the front. In this cause you need to throttle and counter steer which is against most people first instincts.

The throttle pushes the weight of the car to the rear and helps you regain traction in the rear. You'll also notice if you throttle in your w203 it tends to turns better in a corner...similar concept.

I'm still learning this concept myself. I know the mechanics, just don't have to confidence yet to go all out like that. I know for a fact that i'm slower going into the corner in my c32 then i was in my integra.

I'm getting better with a few more canyon runs, but its still a relatively new experience for me, since i've been driving fwd for the majority of my life.

splinter

Thankful you and your GF are okay after a shunt like that.
Certain you know it could have potentially been far worse - and much more costly - had it not been for the designed-in electronic aids and occupant safety features on our cars.

Understand how you’re now reluctant to drive during inclement weather. SoCal’s intermittent precipitation seemingly increases incidents tenfold. Hydroplaning has caught many a driver out. Respectfully suggest you henceforth back it down a notch when there is significant moisture about.

war story: during my squandered youth – while on a date - I negligently buried my Z51’s throttle against the floorboard while exiting a 180º freeway onramp. Almost before I could even think “this isn’t going to be good,” we’d jumped over its adjacent curbing, plowed through the landscaping, and finally wound up staring at oncoming traffic barreling down upon us. Broke two wheels, several suspension components and cracked its virgin fiberglass. Was a long and blue ball tow back home. Haven’t put a wheel wrong since...knock wood. Epilogue is she ended up marrying me anyway.

Doesn’t mean I don’t still enjoy getting after it. Learning vehicle dynamics isn’t something that comes naturally to most, myself included. Know that street fast and track fast are – and should be - altogether different, but each has its appropriate limits. Even professional drivers lose it on occasion. The physics of available adhesion simply cannot be exceeded without consequences. Stack the odds in your favor to help ensure they’re not dire.

Sliding and spinning harmlessly on an open expanse is preferable to further tinwork damage if it helps to serve its purpose of more properly exploiting available throttle, brake and steering inputs. Perhaps you’ll give due consideration to signing up for an autocross or enrolling in a track day DE program as others have rightly suggested?

Norwichdelta06

just be happy u weren't in a smart car....

LILBENZ230

There's nothing wrong with a Smart car.. as long as you don't plow into a much larger vehicle..

Phil is exactly right on many points here. ESP technology is ever improving and has matured a lot in the past 11 years. Also, the cost of upkeep on a C43 might offset what seems like a good price right now.

Norwichdelta06

very true cars are only getting safer... ppl say they are not made like they use too...which is absoutely riteh..they are made better :o)... and the Smart car isn't safe... even though the NHSFT(whatever) gave it a 4-5 star rating was because of the roll cage.... Your body internal organs cannont handle a 60-0 instant impact. Crumble zones will save your *** due to aborting the momentum of the impact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he6TL15pJtw

keep in mind that's a C class now a very big car at all.. they also tested it against a Camry and an Accord. The smart car went airbourne

91RS

Yeah, I think I'd take the C300. Imagine what that POS Smart would look like after a truck hit it, even just a small truck would destroy that thing.

Norwichdelta06

i dunno about u but a car going airborne on a 40mph impact doesn't really seem like a great idea?

TemjinX2

Smart car vs an old S-class. The smart car faired better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02eghIfyHP0

Norwichdelta06

clearly i must be wrong then on my previous post lol :op

TemjinX2

just the use of more high tensil steel in modern cars. But i would still rather drive a old s-class then a smart car..lol. At least the US one. The mpg on the US smart cars are horrible.

FrankW

try to 60-0 into a wall in any car without braking. I doubt you'll survive.

i don't hate the smart, but unless you live in downtown LA that only travels around downtown LA or any other metropolitan area a Smart ForTwo is useless.