nathandimond

During my search for a new car, I have scrutinized many makes and models and have found surprising results. The one I want to put under the microscope here is BMW's reliability vs. Mercedes-Benz. I admit I have been looking at the 3 series as a potential successor to the Acura. I did this only because, prior to joining the Bimmerfest forum, I had heard BMW had the best reliability history of the European makes. However, after many hours of reading through posts and being thorough to a fault with questions, I have come to the conclusion that Bimmers are just as buggy and prone to problems as any other make. I start this thread because I want the input of those who have owned both BMW AND Mercedes vehicles. In your experience which was more painful/enjoyable to own?
I do have a couple rules:

1. Compare bests with bests. Don't expect the reliability of a 2002 C240 to be comparable to a 2005 330i. Keep the model years as close together as possible please.

2. Keep the comparison parallel, meaning don't compare and C class to a 7 series. Generally, the more systems, components, and gizmos a cars has the greater the likelihood of something going wrong.

If you feel justified in deviating from these rules, please explain why.
Be honest and kind and I hope others find this of interest and useful.

e1000

Honestly speaking, they both make good cars with (IMO) similar reliability. There are always bad apples in the bunch. Generally, you can do yourself a favor by avoiding the first model year of a particular car, waiting for the mid model update or facelift is even better.

The w203 C-class in particular has had it's bad years and it's good years. By 2004/5, I think the w203 C-class is as reliable as anyone can hope a car to be. BMW makes a great product and should be considered very seriously.

I'll be honest and admit I've never personally owned a BMW, but I lurk in the BMW forums quite a bit, and I've driven all kinds of cars as loaners and other reasons. With that said, I have no doubt in my mind I'd buy my C350 over again if I had to do it all over again. I am however, planning to buy something else for my next car sometime later this year.

I know you're still looking, I hope you find a good car and I hope you've found the information here at MBW helpful.

nathandimond

Thanks e1000. You know, of all the forums I've joined(Mbworld, Bimmerfest, G35driver, and SaabCentral) in order to gather accurate information, I can honestly say this one has been the most fun and most helpful. I get a response to thread/post 10 times faster here than in the others. Everyone is courteous and eager to help. I think it has been the best tool for car shopping/buying available to me. Thanks for all of your input as well.

nrg_mike

Honestly, E1000 did a great job of covering a lot of things. Please allow me to add a few things as my brother owns a 02 Acura TL (that I've driven quite a bit), I have owned 3 Mercedes Benzes, and I work with BMW and produce many products for the line and am familiar with the cars.

Each of these manufacturers do vary quite a bit. From my experience in the three, I've found that BMW is more centered towards the driver and the driver's experience in the car. Sure the car is considered luxury, but no one else in the car will enjoy it as much as the driver. The feel is definitely sporty and new, but it does lack a welcoming feel like the Mercedes has. The Mercedes has more comfort in mind for everyone in the car and has a softer feel. Even the AMG C63 can feel like a C300 at times. The Acura is a great car (high resale value too), but I found that it fell short in terms of interior quality and ride quality.

In terms of reliability, both brands can be tempermental. BMW does have a great warranty and maintenance plan but from what I just learned today, even changing the tips on the muffler can void a warranty. Service deparments for both brands is top notch.

Another thing to mention is how you're going to utilize the vehicle. Are you going to modify it? SEMA statistics show that 1 in 3 BMW onwers will modify his/her car while MB owners tend to aim for a higher model vs tuning.

The best advice I can offer is to recommend driving both brands to see what you like. I've been in cars ranging from the Nissan GTR R35, Ariel Atom, LP-560-4-SV to cars like the A3, C Class, and 335i and have found that there are things about all cars that are amazing as well as let-downs. See how you feel with the car. If it screams your name you'll know. You shouldn't have to flip a coin to decide what car you like. lol.

One thing I'll note is that before the beginning of this year, I had personally promised myself never to buy another MB. What changed my mind was a car accident where the car was totaled and my passenger and I were both safe and almost without a scratch. The safety that I felt from MB made it much easier to buy my 3rd MB.

Good luck!

alpinweiss

I currently own both a Mercedes and a BMW. The MB is a 2005 C230K (W203) with 6-speed manual. The BMW is an E46 3-Series with 5-speed manual. Unfortunately, it is 5 years older than the MB, so this violates one of your ground rules.

IMO, there is no clear favorite between these two cars. I have been very satisfied with both. Here are some pro's for each:

BMW: The inline-6 engine has no equal; the sound is intoxicating, and the smoothness is superb. The E46 is one of the more beautiful body styles. The car just feels a bit sportier than the MB. It handles well, but also rides well. The headlight lenses are replaceable. The optional stereo on the BMW (Harman Kardon) is better than the optional stereo on the MB (also HK).

Mercedes: The car feels more solid than the BMW; virtually no squeaks or rattles. The M271 engine (4-cylinder supercharged) gets better mileage than the BMW. The engine is very smooth for a 4-cylinder, but not as nice as the BMW. The manual transmission has 6 speeds, instead of 5. The passenger room is a bit better and the trunk is a bit bigger. It is equipped with a rear fog light (including US version).

nathandimond

nrg mike -

Actually, I have driven both brands and I agree with you 100%. I already understood that the brands attract their buyers through different approaches. I like the Bmw feel and communication but the ride can be annoying. Often times it feels too busy when it shouldn't like when I'm on the highway. Maybe it's just the novelty of owning a Bimmer which I'm sure would wear off with time. Out of all the cars I've tested and researched I know the C class is for me. They have all felt and driven as solid as the day they were built. Even the old ones that were poorly taken care off seemed tighter than any BMW, Audi, etc. I just wanted to hear from the owners of both makes to see if they agree or disagree with my opinion of Mercedes being just as reliable as BMW. Thanks for your post. It's good to know the members of this forum have the credentials to back up their words.

I'm glad you and your passenger were safe. Congrats on the new C300; best C class design so far IMO.

nathandimond

alpinwiess -

Inline 6 is simply superior in smoothness and sound as you said. I've spent plenty of time behind the wheel of a 325i and 330i and it always put a smile on my face. Surprisingly efficient considering the power and pick-up they have. And yes, the E46 body style will still look classy and sinisterly elegant ten years from now.

P.S. - I love the rear fog light! I wonder how many people actually use it properly here in the U.S.

nrg_mike

Oh a couple more things I'd like to add...

BMW-
I hate the i-Drive with such a passion. (I'm comparing new ones to the new MB Comand in my 2010 C300)
Exterior parts are such a pain in the butt. BMW goes through more facelifts than Heidi Montag and parts vary from year and from model (325, 330, 335 are different).

MB-
The 01-07 C class had a ton of additional electronic features that made it such an eye opener. A lot of these features were taken from 08+ because they would fail, break, or just become a problem (rear sun-shade).

____
I never really cared too much about my MB. Honestly, I treated my 02 as a beater and started to appreciate it more until it was hit and thrown across a snowy mountain side. My C320 really has re-ignited a love for what I drive. I'm kinda glad that I can't fix it up as much as a BMW too... I'm the type of person that would totally ruin things and go overboard. lol

BLT

I used to have an Audi A4 B6 (2002) before my current C240 (2003), and the Audi was so unreliable. It was a 1.8 Turbo Quattro and had about 89,000 miles by the time I got rid of it. By that time, the turbo was already blown out, I had to replace the ignition coils and spark plugs, and the suspension was rattling already. This was a car that I babied even more than the current Mercedes (Which I have put on the track and did stupid stuff with). I sold it because I rather fork out for a 'better', newer car with less miles rather than pay for the inevitable 100k timing belt change. But that being said, it was much more sporty than the Mercedes, and I feel the main edge it had was how lag-free the tiptronic was. Sure, it's nothing compared to how good SMG or current semi-auto gearboxes are, but in the early 2000s, I felt it was second only to Porsche's tiptronic.

The Benz has been much more reliable in the sense that all the problems I've experienced so far were self-inflicted (i.e. suspension wear from lowered springs), or general stuff like replacing a tail light bulb here and there. To condense both cars' issues, the benz suffered from more electronic problems, while the Audi had more engine defects.

I actually test drove a 2003 E46 BMW 325i before buying the C240, and although the car was very fun to drive and very preppy, I steered away from it because my family has always had maintenance/reliability issues with prior BMWs, including 2 E30s, and an E36 my dad used to have.

Hope this helps. I debate the question of Audi vs. BMW vs. Merc reliability in my head almost every day!

nathandimond

What else besides the rear sun-shade from the W203 was nolonger offered on the W204 due to falure/hassel? I've not heard of the sun-shade being an issue.

BLT

Mine has been reliable so far, except one instance, when I was trying to impress my Mum's best friend who is a complete snoob because she has an Aston Martin Vantage. The conversation went like this:

Me: But can your Aston Martin do... This? (Presses sunshade button)

*Nothing Happens*

Me: Damn $@#()@*$@_(_@ sunshade! You piece of @#)@#)@!

*Crickets chirp*

Mum's friend: ...You were saying?

nathandimond

I hate to be amused at you expense but that was pretty damn funny.

W203E35

328i pulls next to you and you say, check this out to your buddy.
You know you can take the 328i because you have beat many before. Light hits green you go at it and you say "WTF is wrong with my car" then you see the 335i badge and and the once 328i is now a 335i and has you by 4 -6 cars you look like a total idiot in front of your friend.

e1000

Dude they made all kinds of incremental changes on the w203 throughout it's life cycle.

bdgdl08

That got to be a problem with my sunshade in the CLK. I would go to put it up, and I'd have to jiggle the rocker for it a thousand times before it would go. I know exactly how you feel.

Compared to a BMW, I trust the Mercedes' reliability. I have not personally had a BMW, but from family members, I know that they tent to be fine for the first 4 years, and then go. I've heard that this is not the case in the more recent cars, but I still don't quite trust them. Matt, I know, loves his BMW (135i), and swears by the build quality. I don't really think you can go wrong with either brand.

If you're looking for safety, though, you cannot beat a Merc. About 2 months before I got my CLK, my dad had a bad accident in it. A lady pulled out in front of him about 100 ft while he was doing 60mph. He cut to the side and hit the brakes, but caught her car right behind the rear wheel. It spun her around, and crunched the front of the CLK and tore off the fender. Technically, the car was totaled ($8,500+ worth of damage on a '99 with 190,000+ miles). He was able to drive the car home, the airbags didn't even go off. He repaired the car, and I got it with 198,000 miles on it in 2007. I drove the car for 2 years, and sold it with 232,000 miles on it almost exactly a year ago (for $5,000). The only problems I ever had were with the sunshade, the sunroof (it would spaz and not completely close if it met any resistance - including the air rushing over it if I was doing 60), and the driver's seat adjustment (which would get in a mood and only go forward, even when pressing back - the memory buttons would work, though). I never have driven a better car. I just hope my C ages as well.

nrg_mike

They did, but BMW went way farther and beyond Mercedes. Even the shark-fin antenna housing is different between models. We found that out the hard way when we were making carbon roofs for the E90 and E92. We couldn't make exhaust burn guards either because there were so many bumper variations.

BLT

Oh that's interesting. I didn't know BMWs were that different. By the way, a bit off-topic here, but does anyone on here know how reliable the 335i/135i N54 engine is? I've heard mixed reviews that although the v6 twin turbo is a great engine with awesome output, it has a lot of reliability problems.

francoisisp

sounds like you are speaking from experience but that is verry funny i would have to share it with the amg guys.

e1000

I haven't heard a lot of reliability problems from the engine itself. There have been cases of the high pressure fuel pump going out, especially on tuned cars. Also, there are some concerns about oil temperature on them when driven hard for extended periods of time. It's still a fantastic engine and I wouldn't hesitate to get a 135i or 335i.

AdidasC230

Me and My buddy Steve both purchased our cars within weeks of each other. Mine is a White 2006 C230 Sport M272V 2.5L 6 Speed, His a 2004 330Ci Coupe E46 M54 3.0L I6 6 Speed sport. White physically opposites coupe vs sedan, black white, we both love our newly German cars however...

When I purchased my car things that where broke where: Sunroof tabs (from prev owner apparently slamming sunroof cover shut) and chipped cup holder (none of which effected much but where annoying). Both due to prev owners lack of caring for the car (I had to remove coffee stains from the headliner and the carpet). Both my little issue where fixed under warantee. I have an extended warantee but nothing has broke (and I dont plan for it to)

I have owner the car for for 6 months and have only paid 100 bux for a B Service at an indy shop which is basically a glorified oil change. I also spent about 50 bucs and change my manual trans fluid to royal purple gear oil and did the rear end with the same stuff.

Steve my friend, has owned his 330ci for the same time, and has the following things wrong: Cloth coming up from glue used to mount is to the A, B and C pillars letting go, and its bunching on both sides. We had to replace a ceased disc caliper and get both front rotors machined (we did all the work) so basically 90 for the caliper (rebuild) and 50 for the rotors to be machined. Otherwise he has been trouble free.

We both have driven and worked on each others cars and here is what we felt mentioning to each other.

BMW: Stiffer suspention, firmer ride, heavier steering wheel feel, feels light and nimble, bit more power, Calipers I noted to him where single piston which surprised me on a BMW let alone a "sport model" and had a solid front disc, however he did have brake ducts and IIRC the BMW still out stops the Merc even with dual pistons and drilled discs

Mercedes: Softer much less stiff ride, little bit lighter steering but just as communicative, Feels heavy under acceleration/ in general, a bit slower, has more electronic gizmos (info center, rear sunshade, folding rear headrest) has 2 piston calipers with driller rotors, brakes are physically bigger on the Benz

All in all I like both and think if he had an 06 instead of an 04 he may not have the a b and c pillar cloth issue yet, (but I can see it happening later) but MB has a weaved headliner VS BMW through to 06 coupes where its like felt pasted onto cardboard. The BMW is much more sportier, and how I would have expected a "Sport" Mercedes to ride, Im def getting springs or a full suspension, my car feels soft and heavy even though we maybe have 10 hp and 100 lbs between us.

I would take either, however its way easier to find a 6 speed 3 then a merc, and the bmws always seem to have more std power when comparing even models.

I like E46 BMWs and W203 Mercs but new versions of both dont do it for me, so there my opinion on both. Id take either car, although I like the luxurys of MB but you cant beat the free service of BMW (when in warantee that is)

OneOfaKindTrini

Well, IMO, the 2005 was the best of the W203 mainly because it has some of the features that the 2007 model lacks such as auto tilt mirrors, which is a big thing for me. If you want to compare, 2005 to 2005, the 330i with the ZHP sport package preferably is a nice car and I have a thing for fast 4doors and that car is raw. At the same time, the 2005 W203 Kompressor is a sporty car also and the prices these go for nowadays is quite fair. The value of a 05 Kompressor as compared to a 05 330i ZHP are both in the same ball game. Similar cars, but if you want something thats stick look for a ZHP BMW.

Benzben

Me: 2005 C230 sport sedan (owned since January 2005, 66000 miles)
Wife: 2005 325i sedan, non-sport, cold weather package (owned since March 2008, 73000 miles)

C230 problems: Strange, short-term rough running issue; hose recall; bad thermostat; third brake light went out; bad headlight self-leveling sensor. All replaced under warranty (original or CPO).

325i problems: Water pump replacement; leaking valve cover gasket; mild alignment issues. Unfortunately all have occurred post-warranty.

My general impressions would echo most everyone else. Both are fine examples of high quality German engineering. In terms of longevity and reliability, I'll knock on wood and say my car has outperformed, and hopefully will continue to outperform, my wife's. I also like driving mine more (as does my wife, actually...turns out I was right, as usual , and she would have been happier with a sport version of her car). She has been a BMW fan all her life, and prior to this had a 318ti that ran over 200,000 miles before she finally sold it. Unfortunately, that experience skewed her perspective so she naturally expects all her subsequent Bimmers to live up to that standard.

Immediately prior to the 325i, she had a 2004 330i that was totaled when a guy decided to turn left in front of her at an intersection while she was going 35-40. Pic is below. Other than being a little sore and shaken up for the next few days, she was fine. Fortunately, I've never had an opportunity to test my car's safety features, and I hope I never do. She loved that car, and I did, too. It was much closer to my C230 in terms of driving fun (bigger engine and sportier ride/drive than the 325i). I can only imagine how much fun an E90 335i would be.

Bottom line, I don't think you can go wrong with either. They both drive great in their own ways, it just comes down to your personal preference of one or the other. In terms of reliability, I think they're as close to equal as you can get, very few major issues (until very high mileage at least)...sometimes you just get lucky with one that doesn't have as many minor issues.

mtnman82

FWIW, and hope I don't get flamed as I'm just passing along information...

Never owned a BMW, but have driven & ridden in quite a few. I have to agree with the statement about focusing on the driver's seat - if you're driving they're great but as a passenger not as much as a benz.

Reliability-wise, a co-worker/friend went thru 2 new 335i's before swithing to an 'M' hardtop. Both had serious enough engine trouble that after constantly taking them in for service he finally gave up on them. However, I gather the M didn't have enough room and his wife is back to a 335i which seems to be reliable now...

My father-in-law is (not intentionally) on his 3rd 535i in as many years. He did the Germany pick-up thing for the first one. Same troubles with always having to take it back in the shop for engine problems. I know BMW flew master tech's in on each of the first two to try to diagnose/solve problems and they went through a myriad of 'fixes'. They gave him a new car each time after about a year of trouble wihch they could never resolve. He's had this one for ~3 months now, and this one seems to be trouble free.

In each case, BMW did step up to the plate, call the baby ugly and take care of them. And, they're still with BMW's...

nlpamg

Good luck. I'd take all these opinions with a grain of salt. If you're buying a pre-owned car, make sure to get a warranty with that.

With regard to reliability, it's really hard to compare my BMW's to my C230 or my previous C280. I had an M3 and have an M5 and the build quality and price tags of those cars are significantly higher than a C-Class.

However, for the sake of comparison, my 2005 C-Class was purchased brand new and I still have it. It has about 87k miles on it. I've had my fair share of problems with the car and have spent a ton of cash on it. If I had to do it again, I would have leased it or gotten the extended warranty at least. The only bright side is that I've found a very good independent mechanic, it's running great (after I have had quite a few things replaced) and has NEVER left me stranded (although there was one time where it almost did). I used to drive the car somewhat hard, but since it's so damn slow (compared to my M's), I really take it easy with it and just cruise around and enjoy what I don't have in the BMW's, that is, good gas mileage.

I had a fully loaded 2006 M3 that was bought new. It NEVER had any problem or a single hiccup. I had the car for about 2 years until some drunk rear ended me and I just wanted a new car. I put about 40k HARD miles on the car and beat the living day-lights out of it and it took a beating and was great, no major problems and very few minor problems that BMW fixed.

I have a 2008 M5 that I also bought new. It currently has about 22k HARD miles on it and it hasn't had any problems either.

My C230, has had problems as early as 22k miles and it had problems at about 45k miles, etc. I've hard to replace quite a few things on it for a pretty penny... Although I didn't keep my M3 very long and I haven't had my M5 for that long compared to the C230, I'm willing to say that the BMW's have been more reliable even though they've taken a harder beating from me.

BLT

True, I guess everything anecdotal can be interpreted subjectively, but that's the beauty of car ownership, right? Anyhow, to reply to nlpamg's comments, I agree that it sounds like your M3 and M5 are great cars maintenance/reliability-wise, but I had two close friends with E46 M3s have terrible engine issues outside the typical normal-wear-and-tear timeframe, and ended up selling both cars before the warranty period was up. They never drove their cars that hard (Both were weekend cars) but they always had to go back to the dealership with random issues.

So I guess it's just luck of the draw? I'm sure there are exceptions to everything.